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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsBreakfast Topic: Has the Raid Finder changed the way you raid?
by Fox Van Allen 
Jan 18th 2012 at 8:00AM
When I first got into raiding, it was just a casual thing. One night a week for a couple hours. Then, when Icecrown Citadel opened, it got far more serious. I was raiding several nights a week, several hours a night. I was grinding hard modes, wiping on heroic Lich King more times than I'd care to remember.
But something changed. That something: patch 4.3. The advent of the Raid Finder tool made it possible to get a group whenever I wanted. I could raid on my own schedule. I could have a life again. Sure, it's harder to get loot via Raid Finder, but I don't care about that. I'm just in it for the fun.
How about you? Has the Raid Finder changed the way you raid? Has it freed up more of your time? Or are you just as serious about raiding as you were before the Raid Finder came along?
Filed under: Breakfast Topics
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 4)
bloodedblade Jan 18th 2012 11:01AM
Prior to LFR, I haven't raided anything current since Burning Crusade since I don't have the free time like I use to so I'm really enjoying myself as long as I can ignore some of the massive Epeen waving and the must need on everything types that seem to come out of the woodwork.
albanesp Jan 18th 2012 12:16PM
The introduction has made my raiding experience WORSE.
Here is why:
Prior to 4.3, you acquired three tier pieces via VP grinding and then got your fourth (and fifth) piece via two end raid bosses. It was a simple grind to get your VP pieces and then a little RNG luck got you your 4-pc bonus.
Now with 4.3 (and I believe this was done intentionally by Blizzard to populate LFR with non-baddies), all 5 pieces are acquired via RNG. This forces raiders to use the LFR to fill missing tier pieces with sometimes inferior gear just to get your tier bonuses.
This is particularly true of 10-man raids where only one token drops per boss.
As an example, we have a pally, warlock (me) and a priest in our 10-man raid. Over the last 7 weeks (35 tokens) we have gotten 5 conqueror tokens in total. All three of us have been forced to grind LFR to get our tier bonuses.
So in this respect I am not a fan of somewhat mandatory LFR runs.
OTOH, I agree that it is fantastic for gearing alts.
Stilhelm Jan 18th 2012 5:07PM
Yes, and you can already see the "raider effect" if you run LFR both on Tuesday and then on Sunday or Monday. I'm sure it was intentional. I'd prefer if LFR dropped loot equal to the previous tier (and not current tier tokens), so that at least I wouldn't feel obligated to run it on my raiding main for the good of my guild group.
Eyhk Jan 18th 2012 11:06AM
My playing schedule is very erratic due to RL not mixing well with a strict game time. Before, having to force the issue and stick to a strict schedule was a must if you wanted to raid. Now you can jump in whenever you want, leave after a single boss if you need to, and pick it up later with no crazy scheduling to follow. I get to see end game content without always apologizing to the guild for always putting up Tentative on the calendar, having to miss raids, and leaving early.
Getting gear is really hit and miss though. My alt mage, who would've been doomed to running heroics forever to gear enough for a pug raid, got 4pc tier and both caster weapons from deathwing in two weeks, even before my mains did (druid main finally got 4pc tier but still no weapon, rogue has 1st stage legendaries but not a single piece of tier yet =/) For the legendaries on my rogue, I've been joining pug groups when I have time that for some reason never have a rogue so I'm getting my drops at a decent rate.
Pro tip: Always do Madness of Deathwing on all your toons on Tuesday or Wednesday at the latest, then go ahead with the other bosses later on when you have time. The fail rate of groups on Deathwing gets higher and higher as the week progresses. I'm pretty sure the LFR group I left on Saturday after repeated wipes was still going albeit all new people when I queued on Monday =/
Mycroft Jan 18th 2012 11:10AM
It's been a mixed blessing for me.
Upsides: It gets me a bit of raid experience, knowing where the enemies will stand and what the terrain looks like. It gives a bunch of vp, enough to finish capping the week after my normal raid, in about as much time as it took to wipe on Zandies. I can use it to gear up with drops that I don't win on normal mode. I can run it whenever I want, don't need to schedule around it. Don't need to involve 9-24 other people, and dealing with their schedules, attendance, problems, and attitudes. I can do it multiple times, even if there's no reward, for something fun to do with friends.
Downsides: With doing nothing but raiding, I have 0 jp income. It does cheapen the experience a bit when I run it on normal, as the fights seem very familiar but differently harder (about as much as going from normal mode to heroic mode, it seems). The ego and attitude seems to get exponentially worse as more people are added, until there's so much yelling and uncooperative attitude that I feel like I'm in a battleground. With it being doable on people's own time, it's hard to get my friends to run it together, as they've already done it or are saving it for later. Also the RNG gods hate me, and I have yet to get even a 2p tier bonus, let alone the 4p that other people are complaining that it took so long for them to get. And finally, with the raid finder scratching that little "want to raid" itch, I'm more likely to back off from real raiding.
If I had any criticisms for the 4.3 raiding, it'd be with the gear system. I liked that previously some tier was purchasable with vp, but other pieces were raiding-only, so you couldn't complete a set without raiding. Getting only a few off-pieces from the vp vendor seems unfulfilling. Maybe they should shake up the vp/jp system a bit? Give valor points for the 'big' stuff, like full raiding, and keep jp down to only heroic dungeon runs? Or make a third tier of currency, and give that, in small amounts, to raiders to buy the best stuff with? I just haaaaaaaate RNG so much.
Mike Goodman Jan 18th 2012 11:20AM
I enjoy LFR, my schedule doesn't allow me to raid with my guild and folks on my server won't pug you without the achievement (vicious circle). I wasn't able to do any FL content, but with 4.3 we can now get in and see the current content.
thenighthawk Jan 18th 2012 11:51AM
It certainly has for me. I have taken on the role of raid leader more often for Fall of Deathwing (only one tentacle!!, switch DPS!!), but more importantly it's got me raiding again!
Pre-Cata I was traveling, and had 3 days a week at a client-site where I could raid every one of those nights (T4 mostly - Kara, Mags, Gruul)
The next client had a terrible connection -- 800-1300ms pings -- so back to alt-leveling (7 80's in relatively short order)...
New job, new baby, meant no more traveling and then no more nights to myself -- at least none where I could pull 4 hours aside.
Enter the LFD (that works) -- holy crap my main geared up pretty quick!
Enter the LFR -- uhoh... what's that.. I'm actually in a Raid again!!
So now, at least on my main (the only one I've geared up enough), I do Deathwing almost every week, and can usually do Wyrmrest too.
Without Raid Finder, and "raid when you're ready" this would not be do-able for me.
sharpy010 Jan 18th 2012 12:10PM
the raid finder has actually stopped me signing for regular raids with my guild.
after a long break from raiding (part way through firelands hardmodes) when i came back people had geared up well beyond me and a tight raiding group had appeared.
First few times i jumped into LFR it was like a nightmare pug x25 with lousy groups and people ninjaing loot left right and centre.
Then a few more runs went well and now i pretty much log on once a week after reset and run LFR on all my 85's and then hardly log on again till next reset.
LFR is the ultimate loot free loot pinata, you do still get the ocassional group that will struggle on madness but aside from that its all over quick and fast.
Pretty much ideal wow for me atm, get the important stuff done on teh first day and then i can log on as little or as much as i like and already be VP capped after a few heroics.
DarkWalker Jan 18th 2012 12:36PM
I've still to experience it; while I was raiding at the end of WotLK, I hated Cataclysm at the start, unsubscribed back in January 2011, and only subscribed again January 2012; I then found my whole guild missing (they made use of a free realm transfer to get away from my old realm, and don't have a raiding team anymore).
Due to that, I'm still leveling characters on a new realm (I'm never going to pay for a realm transfer; I would rather leave the game than pay for something that I feel should be free, and besides the Brazilian prices are so crazy that 3 realm transfers here cost almost the same as paying upfront for 12 months of subscription). But I foresee that I won't touch normal or hard modes anymore, unless I get an invite to a really nice and friendly guild that has a spot for me and can handle my scheduling restrictions (almost no chance, because I don't feel like looking for a new guild anymore now that I don't need one to see the raids).
Besides, I really hated Blizzard's decision to remove tier pieces from the VP vendor. Making the rewards more unpredictable, for me, is one of the fastest ways to make me completely lose interest in something; I don't farm any reward that is only awarded randomly, no matter how enticing the reward might be.
Eternauta Jan 18th 2012 12:46PM
I wouldn't be exagerating if I said thar LFR is, second to transmogrification, the best innovation we got this expansion.
It brought back raiding for me.
elindable Jan 18th 2012 1:04PM
Big reason i hear raid finder was implemented was to show the content to players who may not have the time or skill to raid. The term casuals has been thrown around perhaps. Most normal/heroic raiders i have come across have a decent computer to play the game on. I have a quad core cps 8gbs of ram solid state drive and 9500gt vid card. With all gfx set to low i experience 20 fps tops and 1-2fps or possible dc when the fights get intense. Example would be zon ozz phase 2 or madness.
Most people i know like family and friends play the game casually and dont raid regulary and also do not have a machine as fast as mine. Point being that the people blizz wants to show end game content to cannot even enjoy it due to it only being 25 man....its a lag fest.
And for the regular raiders it does seem like a requirement to run lfr in hopes to get that upgrade to progress through normal/heroic content. Raid finder seems to be more of a loot pinata for normal/heroic raiding guilds. I can also bet that if the LFR had no token drops and the gear wasnt too much of an upgrade from previous tier then there wouldn't be guilds queuing up for it which in turn would allow for the casual solo player a better chance to get shiny gear.
I do not feel any sense of accomplishment downing these bosses at all because even with all the lag i experience i am always top 5 dps.
LFR is not for me and if i miss out on set bonuses or a small upgrade then so be it.
jfofla Jan 18th 2012 1:28PM
Before I Raided on one char, in one spec, Holy Pally.
Now I am doing DS 25 HM on my Holy Pally, then doing Raid Finder on my DK, Mage, Druid, and Fury Warrior.
Before I had never bothered to gear up my Alts, they were just Economic Slaves for their Professions. Now, I can't wait to do Raid Finder each week on the different Alts. Each is such a unique experience, and just pure fun.
Raid Finder has completely reinvigorated WOW for me.
Mugutu Jan 18th 2012 1:47PM
Well, I'm certainly learning new and interesting ways to wipe on bosses.
Philster043 Jan 18th 2012 2:09PM
I raided Icecrown Citadel in WotLK often - that was my first time raiding at current content, but I was never able to defeat the Lich King, or even get to him. I was always a bit disappointed by that, and at one point I had to call it quits for a while. I know that I would have had a much more satisfying experience if I could have taken that break and felt like, "yeah! Beat the end boss of that game."
What I think LFR is doing that is so great, is that it's giving players that feeling of closure on their mains without necessarily having to organize a super-team of super-players on tight schedules to help them out. It's also a great "training mode" for new people who might want to try to raid more seriously with their guilds, without taking anybody's spots just yet. They get to experience what raiding is all about, and then they can make the decision on whether they want to try it in "normal mode" or "hard mode" or not.
It's definitely been the first time my long-time WoW partner has ever tried raiding in any form at all, and I think she was surprised that she actually ended up enjoying it. That feature is here to stay, fellas, and it's for the best.
Reservoir Jan 18th 2012 4:09PM
Since SW:ToR led to a collapse of my raiding guild, I returned to my previous guild of old friends which sadly has no foreseeable prospects of raiding. So RF is basically the only raid I can do now. Tried a few PUGs but fail is the word there and finding a decent raiding guild is pretty hard now. My only consolation is that I'm making lots of gold lately so when MoP launches I should be set to get an early start.
evoxpisces Jan 18th 2012 4:19PM
It made me go from never raiding to actually raiding. Yeah I'm one of those.
DaSandman Jan 18th 2012 4:43PM
Same here, LFR was my first time ever in a raid :)
Quidamtyra Jan 18th 2012 4:52PM
The only thing LFR has changed about my raiding is that it's made me appreciate my raid team sooo much more.
I have been raiding 3hr/night for 2-3 nights/week since Molten Core and my schedule is such that it's never really been a problem...with that said, the types of people I encounter in LFR just makes me sad; there are too many internet jackasses and internet badasses that it's just not fun.
Good on Blizzard for making raid content easily accessible for people with tighter schedules, but shame on the community for acting in such a manner.
arkhan Jan 18th 2012 6:47PM
"The advent of the Raid Finder tool made it possible to get a group whenever I wanted. I could raid on my own schedule."
LFR is not "raiding". LFR is a 5 man with 25 people. No, I take that back, there are way harder 5 man dungeons than LFR Dragon Soul.
I don't understand why WoW Insider insists - post after post - that this is somehow a liberating change that allows you to raid any time you want. It's not raiding when there is no real challenge to overcome. Or rather no coordination at all is required to overcome what little challenge there is.
If Blizzard had implemented the feature to PUG normal mode raids through their system I could see what the fuss what about, but this? The difficulty level is tuned in a way that half your raid can be afk during boss fights and the rest can ignore most of what Blizzard themselves didn't already cut out of the mechanics.
And yes, I do LFR every week, but not because I enjoy it or think it's an alternative to raiding, I do it because it's a relatively painless way to stack up some valor and maybe even a slight upgrade.
I have no problem with people enjoying raid finder, but please, don't call it raiding.
rayden54 Jan 18th 2012 9:45PM
I've been in a few "casual" guilds, but none of them have stayed casual. I'm not willing to commit to a full-time raiding schedule, and unfortunately, on my server, Cataclysm all but killed the PuG.
Raid finder's pretty much my only option. I only wish they'd included Firelands. Looks like I'll probably never get to see it.