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1-18-2012 @ 9:28PM
I thought one of the purposes of LFR was to end the need to nerf normal and heroic raids?
1-18-2012 @ 9:34PM
I thought the same thing. It seems silly to do...
1-18-2012 @ 9:57PM
Just goes to show that the true reason for the nerfs in ICC, FL, et al was NOT to allow people to see the content. The LFR was built, and by Blizzard's own admission, designed for people to see the content.So what's the true reason behind the nerfs? My opinion (and it's just an opinion) is that the nerfs have been and are currently meant to feed the epeens of the weaker players. People want to feel like they are "good" at the game that they are playing. No one likes to play a game where they feel inferior or weak. By giving the nerfs, it makes the weaker players feel stronger and therefore continue to play (and pay their monthly subscription).
1-18-2012 @ 11:03PM
The purpose of LFR is to allow those who aren't in a position to do traditional raiding to still see content. Its tuned at an easier level to compensate for the fact that a random group of 25 people doesn't work as well together as a guild group. However for those guilds doing 10s or 25s and are stuck this nerf will allow them to continue progressing through the content. Everyone thinks LFR was designed as an easy way to get loot or see content but this was never the case. It was designed to help those who can't raid as part of a guild.
1-19-2012 @ 12:01AM
Scard,I find it absolutely hilarious that you talk about the "epeen" of others and then carry on to make that statement.Just because Raid Finder is out and around doesn't mean that there aren't individuals and guilds that still wouldn't like to attempt Dragon Soul. These "weaker" players probably don't want to beat their heads against a boss for the rest of the tier, and never advance, but that doesn't mean that they should be told to shut up and go do LFR, which is nowhere NEAR the actual raid experience.Of course it's about money. That's why they're searching for better and better ways to implement the nerfs.I'll say, at least they're definitely getting better in their attempts of how to handle nerfs (being able to turn off a boss debuff is a good idea, and excellent middle ground for those that need the nerfs and those that want to carry on without it)...but it seems awkwardly soon. The tier has barely been out 2 months so far...
1-19-2012 @ 12:32AM
Well, you've read blue. There's guilds which can't progress further. The buff is for them.
1-19-2012 @ 1:04AM
@MasarahWhile your philosophy is understandable (and I believe correct), it should also be said that Blizzard has gone against their original reasoning for nerfing content (before LFR was ever introduced) -- to allow more people to experience content. Now that LFR exists, everyone can easily see content, thus the nerfs must be for a different reason (as you alluded). However, that doesn't address the fact that hard modes are intended to be difficult. I do hard modes specifically BECAUSE they are difficult. Perhaps I am the exception, but I enjoy breaking my face against a boss for days, weeks, or months. If I can't beat a heroic encounter after six months of trying... that's no reason for Blizzard to nerf it. Don't try to make me feel invincible after smashing my face against the wall. Let me take the defeat like a man and ENJOY it. I believe it is safe to say that the majority of hard mode guilds play mostly to hear the nerd screams of joy after killing a boss after hundreds of wipes. If Blizzard lowers the bar so more guilds can clear it, it cheapens the kill for those that have and have NOT defeated the encounter. To that I say this: keep guild-breaking bosses out of normal mode by way of nerfs. But let hard mode guilds know that they're going into this content at the risk of obliterating the very fabric that holds their guild together.Now then, does Blizzard agree with that philosophy? Apparently not. But I'd at least like to hear their reasoning for it, which is probably driven by money (and understandably so). All I really want is for them to acknowledge it publicly.
1-19-2012 @ 6:07AM
"Everyone thinks LFR was designed as an easy way to get loot or see content but this was never the case."If the LFR was nothing more than an easy way to "see" content, then the fighting should have been turned off altogether, right? Or put us all in God mode so we take no damage, since we're really there to watch a movie, eh?Silly elitists don't realize just how silly they are.
1-19-2012 @ 7:36AM
@Moonfaxx:How? How precisely does giving some other guild the option to beat the raid on a slightly easier difficulty at a later date lessen another guild's achievement at beating it at the original difficulty?I could almost sympathize with the people who were complaining about the Firelands nerfs; there is some amount of merit to saying "we just want to be able to keep going at the original difficulty, no matter how long it takes us." However, in this case, that's not an issue. Any guild that wants to beat the raid as it was at launch will still be free to do so by turning off the buff. So more people out there can get the achievement you got. So more people have the neat mount you got. Big flippin' deal; that in no way effects the fact that you worked harder for it by getting it at the harder difficulty. The only possible way it effects you is that someone who doesn't know any better might think the guild that did it with the buff was as good as you. So, if you're really making the argument that a larger portion of the player base shouldn't have the ability to turn down the difficulty to a level more manageable for their group because you want to stand out more, because you want strangers who couldn't care less to know how much better you are than everyone else; I'm afraid that's not very compelling.You and your raid mates will always know what you accomplished and how hard you worked for it. If you really feel that it's not enough to know it yourselves, that others must know it to validate your success, well, I'm sorry, but that's just being insecure.
1-19-2012 @ 9:58AM
@MasarahFinally! Someone GETS IT!I think one of the reasons we see so much QQ about the LFR is that most raiding guilds see it as a "mandatory easy mode" like they saw 10-man normal raids on the Wrath era, when Blizzard's intention was to add an alternative optional mode for those who can't commit to a raiding schedule, slightly easier to compensate for the fact that 25 random people will never be as good as a dedicated raiding guild.Basically, LFR is the equivalent of raid PuGs, only cross-server.As for the reason of the normal and heroic DS nerfs, for a moment I thought MoP was coming sooner, then I remembered ICC...
1-19-2012 @ 1:09PM
@DaedalusSimple. Because hard modes should always maintain their level of difficulty while the content is relevant. If that means nerfing it one patch later, THAT IS FINE! But don't do it in the same patch cycle.More on point, though, you focused your argument on one tiny bit of what I said, and then you ignored the rest. The core of my argument has little to NOTHING to do with what you seem to refer to as "lesser" guilds. My complaint is that Blizzard nerfing content means they're making it easier for ME and MY guild, and I don't want it to be easier. If I wanted it to be easier, I have normal mode and LFR. Let me wipe. Let me wipe hundreds upon hundreds of times. That's what hard modes are for. Nerdscreams after hundreds of wipes.
1-19-2012 @ 2:15PM
@Moonfaxx"My complaint is that Blizzard nerfing content means they're making it easier for ME and MY guild, and I don't want it to be easier."Then your complaint is completely unfounded. You and your guild simply need to talk to the NPC at the beginning of the raid and choose "no nerf, please". Everything will then be just as hard as it has been.
1-19-2012 @ 3:02PM
Why are people still replying? Daedalus won the thread.
1-19-2012 @ 4:17PM
@RajahThe idea that you can just "turn off" the buff and everything is fine is shortsighted and borderline ridiculous when you understand the full scope of the implications. Blizzard presents it as if it were a choice, and in the "dog eat dog" world of Azeroth (and the competitive world of hard mode raiding), it simply is not.
1-19-2012 @ 11:37PM
@Moonfax:The idea that you CAN'T turn it off due to the nature of the "dog eat dog" world of hardcore raiding isn't borderline ridiculous. It's FLAT OUT ridiculous.1) Who cares. It's a game. If a guild needs that little bit of extra help on normals or hardmodes, they get it now. It doesn't effect you what so ever. Not one iota. Which brings me to point two.2) If you're not 8/8H mode at this point, then what anybody else is doing doesn't have any bearing on your raiding. If it was week 2, and they announced this, then yeah, the hardcore raiders would have a gripe. But this is coming 10 weeks into the patch. At this point, all of the competitive raiders have pretty much cleared DS heroic. So to say that you can't turn it off because OTHER raiders may leave it on, is pretty ridiculous.
1-20-2012 @ 2:23AM
@Masarah Jan 18th 2012 11:03PM"The purpose of LFR is to allow those who aren't in a position to do traditional raiding to still see content. Its tuned at an easier level to compensate for the fact that a random group of 25 people doesn't work as well together as a guild group."...or perhaps the fact that because it's anonymous, no one feels the need to work well as individuals, either. 15k dps is the best 10 people in every raid can do, wearing at least 372 ilvl? Yeah, right.
1-25-2012 @ 1:11PM
@MoonflaxxThe issue is there's no distinction between turning the nerf off or on. It'll still count as the raid was done.The point about Firelands and the nerf, was players were trying to do it before the nerf came as a measure of skill. I especially liked the raid because it was about communication and coordination, which encouraged the raid to actually work more as a team (not every man for himself). It was rough, but I was there for hours (8hrs one night, even), and enjoying the experience.Being in a small guild I have to PuR to raid and enjoy LFR for that purpose, but honestly would prefer to raid normally (and if ever, to do HMs). It's the sense of accomplishment that LFR and the nerfs kill, and that's why progression raiders moan when nerfs do come. It's then everyone wants to do it (those who would not do it when the raid was hard) and with little discipline, too. It goes from a more adult atmosphere to talking strat and all, to kids wanting to race through and if *they* fail blaming everyone else. The closeness raiding can offer is lost, to just be replace with a larger LFR type group. Spoils the fun.
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