Blue Posts and Other WoW News: Blizzard considering changing the "Skyrim" Ultraxion trash, answers on raid nerfs

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Blue posts
Quote:
Yeah, I kind of hate both, but if I had to choose which trash I'd get rid of or change, the drake event before Ultraxion would be my first choice.
Yeah, I kind of hate both, but if I had to choose which trash I'd get rid of or change, the drake event before Ultraxion would be my first choice.
That would probably be ours as well. We're considering it.
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I doubt we'd remove it entirely. I was referring more to the "change" part. ;)
For everyone reading, this is in reference to: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/4326384/Dragon_Soul_Difficulty_Changes-1_18_2012#blog
Believe it or not there are actually guilds and raiding groups that are attempting to progress through Normal and Heroic raids, but are hitting a wall, and have been hitting a wall. We have actual statistical data we base our changes on, we know exactly how many people are clearing these raids each week, we know exactly how many people are able to down just a few bosses, and how many were only able to down a few bosses every week for weeks on end and then stopped raiding altogether.
The issue we're constantly trying to combat is the one where people feel like they're just out of options. One way this is an issue is the content is too easy, they blasted through it, have everything they could possibly want, and have nothing else to do. Ideally that's a small subset of very hardcore players. For everyone else it's a feeling of just being stuck with no possible way to progress. Very few players are willing to suit up, buff up, do all the necessary requirements to raid, jump in, and then do no better than they did last week for hours and hours, only to return next week and do the same.
If a guild doesn't want the help, they're free to opt out of the buff. For those that do it's an approximate 5% change, which is pretty minor, and we expect it to be about a month before we raise it another 5%. This first change will absolutely help the guilds that are just barely sc@%#!*# by, or just need a tiny bump to cross the next hurdle, but it's just not logical to exclaim that someone will roll into Raid Finder, grab a couple items, then be looting Heroic Deathwing's corpse the next night.
We feel the content has been out for quite a while now, that most people who have progressed and downed Deathwing on Heroic have done so, they've had sufficient time to celebrate in their accomplishments, and these very small progressive alterations will only help guilds that are already doing well in the raid get over some hurdles they may be facing.
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Quote:
Call the news! People are having the same thing that happened to every raiding guild before them. You burn through the wall by getting better.
Call the news! People are having the same thing that happened to every raiding guild before them. You burn through the wall by getting better.
All it takes is a moment to step back, assess the entire landscape of humanity, and realize that not everyone is like you, nor should they have to be.
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Quote:
If they don't have to be like us, why do they have to have nerfs to get to our position in HM Raiding?
If they don't have to be like us, why do they have to have nerfs to get to our position in HM Raiding?
Because they want to and they pay the same amount for the game? I don't know, man. How is it good for the game to have 1% of players parading around for months and months and a 99% sitting around with nothing to do because they're sick and tired of wiping?
Your solution is "Well then they should get better or quit." and that's just not reasonable for a video game comprised of millions of people looking to just have some fun. It's still a computer game.
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Quote:
I don't think that saying 'they should get better or quit' is a reasonable solution at any point at all.
I am kind of confused though. We have LFR for DS, we have Normal, and we have Heroic. At what point do you look at a situation and say "Alright, this needs a nerf" when there's already a lower difficulty available?
If there's a easy, normal, and hard difficulty, why tweak normal until it becomes as easy as the easy mode?
I don't think that saying 'they should get better or quit' is a reasonable solution at any point at all.
I am kind of confused though. We have LFR for DS, we have Normal, and we have Heroic. At what point do you look at a situation and say "Alright, this needs a nerf" when there's already a lower difficulty available?
If there's a easy, normal, and hard difficulty, why tweak normal until it becomes as easy as the easy mode?
Well the nerfs are going to be progressive enough, as I said, I don't see a 5% change being a big enough change for Raid Finder players to suddenly start clearing Normal. We also don't know where we'll end up. We plan to increase the spell by 5% about every month, but we're not sure if we'll need to. If we see a lot of people able to keep progressing and downing bosses, maybe 5% is all we need. It's going to be watching completion numbers and seeing where that gets us. We're not assuming we'll need to go as far as we did with ICC. It's not going to be automatic, our hand is on the dial.
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Quote:
So basically 5% starting off just like ICC and every month after that another 5% up till we hit 35% which according to wowhead appears to be the cap. So thats like what 7-8 more months at least of Cataclysm with no new content.
So basically 5% starting off just like ICC and every month after that another 5% up till we hit 35% which according to wowhead appears to be the cap. So thats like what 7-8 more months at least of Cataclysm with no new content.
The increase is not automatic or set in its frequency. We will be manually controlling when it increases, if at all. It will be completely based on how many people we see able to complete the raid, and our decision to increase it or not.
WoW news from other sites
- MMO-Champion Dragon Soul Difficulty Changes, Curse Weekly Roundup
- Wowhead News Dragon Soul Difficulty Changes Coming Soon
- Dragon Soul normal and heroic nerf begins Jan. 31st
- Last chance to bid on retired server blades for charity
- Spice up your boss kills with custom victory music
- Spiritual Guidance: The 10 best weapons for shadow priests in patch 4.3
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- The Light and How to Swing It: The Fall of Deathwing, ret edition part 1
- Know Your Lore: Where is WoW's story headed in the distant future?
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- WoW Insider's Weekly Webcomic: Safe Passage -- Convergence
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- Around Azeroth: And so castles made of sand melt into the sea
- Encrypted Text: How fast can you get Fangs of the Father?
- Breakfast Topic: Has the Raid Finder changed the way you raid?
- Capcom behind 'No Hope Left' viral ads (or widespread graffiti, depending on your perspective)
- Amy review: Survival boredom
Filed under: Today in WoW






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Colby.Nowak Jan 19th 2012 2:22AM
w
Chase Jan 19th 2012 2:25AM
The best part is that "scraping" is censored because it has "raping" in it.
Martin Jan 19th 2012 2:34AM
I didn't even think of what the word was that got censored, just thought it was a weird formatting thing. That's priceless.
Minos Jan 22nd 2012 11:34AM
I've been trying to make a joke referencing a well-known occurrence of this error, but I think it keeps getting filtered.
Martin Jan 19th 2012 2:33AM
I'm glad that guilds and other teams that need a little extra boost to get past whatever hurdle is in their way are going to get it. I'm also glad that it's optional.
I really don't see what people are so upset about. Seems to boil down to a childish, elitist attitude of "That toy was mine first and you can't have it because I'm better than you."
I particularly like this quote, "All it takes is a moment to step back, assess the entire landscape of humanity, and realize that not everyone is like you, nor should they have to be."
Naryn Jan 19th 2012 2:48AM
No, however if you are one of the raiders who did wipe every night simply to down a boss, 5 nights a week, and you do it pre nerf, your personal achievement will be diminished because Blizzard have said that everyone should have it.
They need to nerf certain fights perhaps that people are brickwalling on, Ultraxion on 25 man is probably one of these however can you imagine a 5% nerf on morchok or on Yor'sahj?
kanagosa Jan 19th 2012 2:50AM
Agreed 100%
Noyou Jan 19th 2012 3:05AM
First of all, since not every raider gets to play on the PTR, the nerf is actually part of tuning the raid. Generally speaking, they make raids and dungeons harder and see how things go from there. Second, if you down a boss pre-nerf, your accomplishments are not diminished, the future ones are. It's pretty sad, if you a) don't want other people sharing it or b) need some kind of sticker on your test paper to show other students how bright you are.
Nick Jan 19th 2012 3:06AM
People on both sides have valid points I feel. Too often the arguments get ignored because those in favour of the nerfs start taking about epeens, elitests and what ever else whilst those against the nerfs scream and casuals, scrubs and bads.
For: if I was making no progress I'd quit raiding. We are 7/8 normal now, and at no point became stuck for more than 2 lock outs. If we got to 7/8 in week 1 and we're still there now, or we were stuck else where, I'd love this nerf.
Against: because these nerfs are optional I'm struggling here. If I didn't want the nerf, I'd turn it off. I did kinda think that LFR would br the end of nerfs,t but I am glad that they've gone back to small incremental optional nerfs.
Sidfish Jan 19th 2012 3:22AM
Agreed.
I can see why people were upset with the way Firelands was nerfed. Their plan for DS however, is completely reasonable. If you're complaining about a tiny nerf with a slow ramp-up, after the content has been out for months, you need to get out more.
Chetti Jan 19th 2012 3:47AM
My guild has 2 teams in DS right now, one of them is 5/8 the other is 3/8, the slow progression has a lot to do with the holidays and some team changes from losing people and the need to fill those positions, therefore raid days missed. That being said, we aren't (and never will be) a top raiding guild on our server. Its no big deal that someone will (probably has, not sure actually, i don't keep up) downed Deathwing on normal before we get a chance to try. Its not a huge deal. We didn't start raiding in firelands until it was nerfed because we didn't actually form until late into that tier. So to even see about half of the fights before they were nerfed is nice, and we'll actually get 3 more chances pre-nerf (for the team I'm on.. 3/8) and 2 more chances for the other team. So, with any luck both teams will be at 5/8, the other team may even tack on the 6th encounter. I'd say, that for a guild that started late tier 12, and had the issues we've had forming the second team and then re-forming the first team, being where we are now (and hope to be by Jan 31st) is pretty good. I'm not disappointed at all.
On the point of diminishing accomplishment - I don't think either side of the accomplishment is diminished. If your guild did it pre-nerf, and within however many lockouts of release - awesome for you. I'm sure you and your guild celebrated. Its a good thing. And those guilds that will do it post-nerf, again, awesome for you. More celebrations! I know my guild will be in the later half, and I know there will be much celebrations when it happens.
On the point of turning the buff off - Very much this. There will always be people to complain, no matter what. This is the greatest compromise Blizzard could have come up with. A nerf to content that is easily opted out of. You'd think, no complaints right? People who want to run it as if it had never been changed can do it, people who want the help can have it. Everyone wins? No? Well.. haters gonna hate, right.
Valis Jan 19th 2012 3:55AM
I agree completely Martin.
Very well said.
Antonius.Prime Jan 19th 2012 5:00AM
@Chetti: Well said. I cant upvote that comment more than once, otherwise I would.
It's well thought out, articulate posts like that that should be taken on board.
Not the: "OMG!! Nefr dis raid plox"
Or the: "Only terribads QQ 4 nerfs scrub"
type of comments that pervade the official forums.
Xigbar Jan 19th 2012 5:31AM
Unfortunately it's likely the majority of people aren't complaining about the nerf in and of itself, but rather that it allows others to get their hands on the nice toys.
I see nothing unreasonable in a nerf that can be turned off and on to suit your own personal experience. You have the option to disable it as you see fit, and more importantly the choice another group makes does not affect you at all and therefore there is no valid reason to hate on this.
robitrock Jan 19th 2012 6:28AM
Yeah I am one of those people that have completed a good portion of the content in the first week and I don't care about this.
All the nerf means is I can farm gear faster and with many alts and guild mates alts to gear I'm all for making things die faster.
I can see why some would be upset but this stuff has already been out for two months an won't be nerfed for another 3 weeks, it's old news at this point let the other players have some fun.
Jorges Jan 19th 2012 9:26AM
For those whining about their e-peens being hurt because more people will get the achievements: Look, achievements have a date and everyone can check the day you got them. So if you really have to, you can tell them "look at the date, I got it pre-nerf".
Happy now?
Duerma Jan 19th 2012 11:37AM
OK, so I'm speaking as one of those casual raiders - we go one night a week for 3.5 hours, we have 7 guilds represented in our group, we have breaks to put the children to bed and I am nursing the baby on half of our attempts. That said, I was surprised by the nerf and feel like it's a bit too soon.
First, it's so super soon - only two months in, and one of those months was December when everyone has holiday crap going on. I mean, we didn't even raid one week, and the other was filled with subs because everyone was still visiting family. Once real life settled in, we downed a new boss. I know your mileage may vary based on the number of days you raid and which days you raid, but I'd suspect the holidays were significant for most casual raids which makes Blizz's conclusion that people were stuck for weeks a little hasty.
Second, I'd thought that previous sets of nerfs were to help more people see content. This raid is unique in that there's the raid finder - everyone's seen Deathwing die, and if you are casual you are probably still getting upgrades out of it.
Iunno, I like boosts and maybe this will let us do some heroic mode before it's obsolete, but it still seems odd.
Jetfyre Jan 19th 2012 2:49AM
No need to QQ people. You dont have to do the nerfed version. It's not like Firelands. It's like ICC where its OPTIONAL.
One thing I do agree with the QQers on is its a bit too early for such a thing to be implemented. If they waited til like March, then I really wouldn't mind. But really thats just a minor thing.
thawedtheorc Jan 19th 2012 2:53AM
Thank the stars. Pre Ultra trash is just really bad design.
Half the time you run it you have no where to stand without taking damage and melee not being able to land hits because of the heights and movements of the adds.
I had thought it was just a new mechanic we needed to learn.. nope.. just overkill, crazy making button smashing nonsense.
Arrohon Jan 19th 2012 6:12AM
This is my personal strat for Ultra trash as Fury: run and /cry
Arms: Bladestorm in circles (no idea if I'm hitting anything, but OMG I love Bladestorm :D ).