7 wishes for guilds in Mists of Pandaria

For officers, the improvements and new systems that Cataclysm brought to guilds were a game-changer in many ways. The sweeping changes to raiding that came with it brought on some difficult challenges. Fortunately, WoW does not stagnate. The Mists of Pandaria expansion gives Blizzard a chance to add new features, make important changes, and improve on what the developers gave us in Cataclysm. Here's my personal wish list:
1. Treat legendary items as guild rewards, not player rewards. As guilds in WoW have matured over the years, I've heard from officers less and less frequently about loot drama -- with one huge exception: legendaries. Every legendary in the history of WoW has caused problems for officers. For some, the legendary drama itself has become legendary.
It's time to change both the reality and the perception of these powerful items.
Earning legendaries today requires the prolonged effort of the guild's entire raid team. It's time to take that one step further. Each step in the quest line should be a guild quest that requires a guild undertaking to create a guild-bound item. (See, for example, Delegation during the Dragonwrath quest line.)
There are multiple benefits to this method. Grinding out the required quest items wouldn't suffer when that one key person misses a raid. Because each guild could only do it once, a guild wouldn't have to keep running old content to earn one for every eligible raid member. Plus, Blizzard wouldn't have to prolong the process artificially to keep the number of legendaries limited.
When the legendary is created, that item would be tradeable among everyone in the guild. If someone leaves the guild with it in their inventory, it would revert to the guild bank.
A legendary should never ultimately belong to just one player. They take too much time and effort on the part of too many people. If the quest lines and items worked this way, then the perception of ownership would change and we would see far less drama over them. Blizzard can create class quests for other things.
2. Create more guild achievements that matter. I enjoyed the concerted effort that it took my guild to earn the cauldron and feast recipes. These achievements mattered because they made raid preparation significantly less annoying for (mostly) everyone. I'd like to see this idea expanded in Mists.
Give us more goals to shoot for as the expansion progresses. Allow us to upgrade our flasks and feasts with each tier so the bonuses don't become less and less relevant over time. It was great to get a mount after clearing tier 11 on normal mode, but subsequent patches never followed up on that premise. Perhaps take some of the boredom away from farming raid bosses by giving us pet versions of a boss if we kill him a certain number of times as a guild.
PvP guilds deserve more achievement rewards than they currently get. Some fun items for roleplaying guilds wouldn't be unwelcome, either. Along those lines ...
3. Guild halls -- make it happen. Send our guilds on the longest and most epic quest line that Blizzard has ever designed. Make it similar to the Gates of Ahn'qiraj quest line that only a handful of guilds around the world got to experience (only without the insane rep grind, please).
Have us earn guild achievements along the way that unlock the hall, and then upgrade it with vendors, portals, trophy cases, and other services and eye candy. With the gear normalization that Blizzard is implementing for timed dungeon runs, the developers wouldn't even have to update the bosses from tier to tier like they do now for holidays.
I understand that Blizzard doesn't want cities to look empty, so make the halls restrictive; allow access only to players with exalted guild reputation. Keep the Auction Houses and other essential services out in the world, but let us have a fun place to gather. Nothing would get players more invested in their guild that this type of ques tline and reward.
4. Design better recruiting tools. Two weeks ago, I wrote about the failure of the Guild Finder. It's just too limited in scope and too difficult to use in practice. A player looking for a guild and vice versa uses many more criteria than those the Guild Finder addresses. A better system that includes far more information and can match up in both directions would be a huge improvement.
New guilds in particular need more effective tools. Currently, they are at a severe disadvantage to established guilds. However, if they could find the types of players who would be interested in their community more easily, then new guilds would have a better chance to survive. Imagine if players looking for a fresh start could flag themselves as potential recruits for new guilds.
With all the matchmaking tech behind the Dungeon and Raid Finders, I don't see why a similar system couldn't be used to steer players toward like-minded guilds across realms.
5. Enable a "rep for deposit" function for the guild bank. It's a simple idea: You deposit a certain amount of ingredients for flasks, cauldrons, or feasts, and the bank awards you guild reputation. I know most officers would consider that a more noteworthy service than solo questing in Desolace. Players looking to rep up faster would have a means to do that -- and they'd actually benefit the guild at the same time.
6. Reward larger raids appropriately. I wrote about this last week, so I won't go into too much detail here. Something has to be done to make leading larger raids more desirable for the officers who put in the extra work. Otherwise, these guilds will simply die out or switch over to 10-player raiding, and then no one will have a choice about raid size.
7. Expand guild tabard design options. It's a tiny issue in the grand scheme of things, but the tabard designs haven't been updated since, well, ever. The original options were never that great to begin with. The color choices are very limited. Plus, with all due respect to the weeping bear, many of the icons just look flat-out terrible on actual character models.
What would you like to see added or changed in Mists? Tell us below!
/salute
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership), Mists of Pandaria
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 7)
loop_not_defined Jan 23rd 2012 6:27PM
Odd thought, but what if Legendaries had no power? What if their ONLY purpose was for transmog?
smartazjb0y Jan 24th 2012 12:31AM
There's just a dynamic to it too: if legendaries are guild-bound, then what about people who become ostracized in their guild? Or situations, not because they're being a douchebag, where their guild is no longer the right fit? Maybe the guild's too casual or hardcore? Then the person who put in the time to do the legendary has to stay in a guild he no longer really enjoys because if he leaves for a better guild, he loses the reward for his effort?
Vagrant Jan 24th 2012 2:22AM
But doesn't the opposite happen as well?
Legendary is mine!!! Whoo, thank you guys for helping me, letting me shuffle around in fights to charge it and such!
Oh ps, bye bye, I'm going to another guild, adios!
Both guild and personal legendaries are a flawed concept, which one is more flawed.
Stray Jan 24th 2012 9:27AM
While I think there does need to be incentive provided for legendaries to stay within the guild that built them, I think that incentive needs to come from the community, not the mechanics. It sucks if a group works hard to prop up an individual, but if that individual hops, perhaps there were warning signs overlooked. More so what I fear is, much like how people might hesitate to abandon a guild that doesn't suit them or worse--makes their fun-time harm-time--due to losing rep/levels, having such a powerful item guild bound would worsen that.
A guild is supposed to be a group of people who enjoy doing things in game together, and ideally enjoy each other's company. If that is not true, they should not feel forced to stay together. Yeah, in real life you might have to tolerate that one jerk in the office, or that one aunt that thinks her kids are better than you and feels the need to let you know, this is a game. We need no further mechanic disincentives for leaving for more healthy pastures.
However, I do think it'd be very interesting if Blizzard implemented something to ease a transition like that. Say a guild started off well but two groups have differing opinions on how they wish to pursue their game time. Why should one group get the guild both worked on while the other starts fresh? Creating a new guild with say, half the levels, would ease it quite a bit. And to keep from that being abused, perhaps it could only happen if x amount of members founding the new guild had been in the main guild for a certain period of time.
Xant Jan 24th 2012 3:13PM
How about this: one player is selected as being the owner of the legendary. But the legendary is also bound to the guild that helped create it. So if the player leaves the guild the item stays with him, but becomes unusable. And if the player wants to switch guilds, both the guild he is leaving and the guild he is joining have to agree to the transfer. Then the legendary becomes bound to the new guild.
Haga Jan 23rd 2012 3:18PM
The problem I see with depositing flasks etc yielding guild rep is one of repeatability... i.e. I deposit 20 Flasks of Insanely Boosted Strength in the guild bank and get 250 rep. I log over to a different toon and withdraw those same 20 flasks (so as not to get a penalty for withdrawl) and then mail them back to the original toon, who deposits them again for another 250. Lather, rinse, repeat = near instant exalted all from 20 flasks. Perhaps there would need to be a weekly quest tied to a players professions. But that would make it difficult for BS, LW, Tailoring and maybe one or two others imo. And even then, you still have the problem of "deposit for rep -> Withdrawl -> Sell on AH = no real benefit for the guild".
account Jan 24th 2012 5:33AM
I wanted to point out the same thing, thanks!
What might work would be an overall cooldown on the rep. Say, you get to deposit one item or stack for rep once a day, or at a different interval.
After you did that once per day, you of course can still deposit other stuff, but you wouldnt gain rep until the next day.
If you can't be online every day, make it possible to deposit up to 7 items once per week. Imagine you get... I dunno, 250 rep for it. You can earn up to 1750 guild rep, and you can't just do the deposit-withdraw rinse n repeat thing within 20 min.
Throck Jan 24th 2012 12:49PM
Maybe the "rep for deposit" function should be turn-in quests given by the guild bank. What is deposited disappears, but perhaps the turn-ins work towards eventual guild-wide buffs when in raid groups or something like that. It'd be similar to AV turn-ins. This could address the problem of too much unused low-level stuff accumulating in the guild bank, too. And the guild rep gain could be made inversely proportional to the size of the guild since rep gain by members of tiny guilds may be much slower.
jordan Jan 23rd 2012 3:18PM
I really don't agree with guild bound legendaries. That opens the door to a mess like "Oh, I just outdpsed that dude, I deserve it more." and "I just made the guild a bunch of feasts, I deserve it more." So people complain and the legendary is passed around on a weekly basis. Honestly, the only way to remove legendary drama is to remove legendaries. At least then the game would be balanced.
Methuus Jan 23rd 2012 6:10PM
Or, "Hey, my girlfriend just rolled class X. Trade the guild legendary to her or I'll gkick you and take it anyway."
vf19glopez Jan 23rd 2012 3:19PM
I agree with every one of those ideas.
The only problem with the rep for deposit one though is that it's probably tough to design that without leaving it wide open for exploitation.
I remember some talk before cata came out about legendaries and certain patterns going the Guild-bound route but never saw anything else from it.
Anyone who has seen someone get their legendary and then either leave or stop showing up would probably agree on legendary weapons having a tie to the guild that earned it as a team. With it taking so long especially on 10-man to get one done, it really bites to see that happen. Expanding on the nature of the quests themselves would get more of the guild involved to see it done and share the fun. These rogue daggers are the exact wrong way to handle a legendary. Very time consuming for both the individual AND the guild, important lore related quests that only get seen by the Rogue in question, and zero blockage to that Rogue packing up and bailing as soon as it's done. Just like the multiple Rogues I saw during black temple that took their Warglaives and ran from other guilds, or the paladin that got his Val'Anyr in Ulduar from my own guild who server hopped.
Upgraded tabard options would be awesome to see.
Namssob Jan 23rd 2012 3:21PM
Excellent list! As the GM of a large guild (300+ accounts, 750+ toons), all of these features would be wonderful. The guild hall would be number one on my list.
I would like to add that some adjustments need to be made to the guild interface, but minor. One thing specifically is that repairs and gold withdrawal limits need to be DIFFERENT AMOUNTS. Currently, they share an entry field, and this is not practical.
Jacques Jan 23rd 2012 4:56PM
I'd love to see Repair / Withdrawal amounts separated.
I'd also love to see the secondary professions added to the guild recipes tab. Especially since the cooking recipes require being bought with tokens, it'd be nice to know who already knows what when I need something made or when I'm considering what recipe to buy next.
pavl_dude Jan 23rd 2012 3:25PM
As for #6, one thing I would like to have is "dynamic sizing raid" like they implemented in the event system in Guild Wars 2. The difficulty and the reward scale with the number of players in the event zone. No more "oh noes we need to fill the raid" crap.
I am sure it will be "hard" to implement this.
But knowing that's a 10 millions subs MMO after 7 years I do not care at all:
JUST DO IT!
pavl_dude Jan 23rd 2012 3:32PM
Sorry I've been victim of the double post in "chrome" browser
/sad opossum
Pavelix Jan 23rd 2012 3:26PM
As for #6, one thing I would like to have is "dynamic sizing raid" like they implemented in the event system in Guild Wars 2. The difficulty and the reward scale with the number of players in the event zone. No more "oh noes we need to fill the raid" crap.
I am sure it will be "hard" to implement this.
But knowing that's a 10 millions subs MMO after 7 years I do not care at all:
JUST DO IT!
DarkWalker Jan 23rd 2012 4:47PM
Why the rewards part should work in GW2: individual rewards (akin to WoW's seasonal loot bags) and ample use of something similar to points (AFAIK, everything that can drop in encounters can also be bought with Karma). That game will abolish loot rolls.
Also, apparently that game won't have limits on how much a player can raid (apart from having to find the events in the first place). Someone could spend the whole week killing the same dragon, if he wanted.
(Both are things I would really like seeing in WoW, but Blizzard seems to think allowing players to fight over loot, and preventing them from having fun more than once a week, is important.)
I'm not sure making raids scaling, with WoW's current loot system, would work.
The Dewd Jan 23rd 2012 3:29PM
The only problem that I can see with having a Legendary that can be "checkout" from the guild bank is that if you have, with the current example, 2 or 3 rogues in your DS-25 raid, who gets the daggers for the raid? Most likely everyone helped in some way with kills so does everyone have to take turns? Or are you talking about more of a library-style system where someone can "check out" the item and then put it back once they've outleveled it - without affecting other members?
I'd love to see guild halls, especially if we can get Blizzard to agree to that instead of player housing. Just put it into a capitol city - if you REALLY want to get sneaky, put it into the capitol of the guild leader's racial home. And then just put a "This Battleground is Closing" style message that kicks you out of the guild hall after 60 or 120 seconds. Maybe allow officers and guild leaders to disable the timer once a week to allow for meetings and RP purposes.
I'd like to see the guild finder become more interactive. I see good applications but there should be a "respond" option that doesn't just try to send a tell. You should be able to craft an email from the interface and also leave a pending invite for someone without having to catch them online.
I'd like to see more guild-based items. Having legendaries work this way would be nice but allowing players to have some sort of special tabard that changes appearance as you level within the guild (or as the guild levels) would be nice. I'd rather display my tabard and show guild pride than being forced to wear the tabard of the faction I'm currently championing; we should be able to transmog tabards.
Lastly, I'd like to see some benefit for guilds that run LFR in groups - or even LFD with dps slots open, especially during Call To Arms periods. A tank or healer shouldn't have to decide between the gift bag and helping their guildmates. (A group of 3 dps from a single guild probably shouldn't get a bonus but if you include an active CTA role, you should get something, even if it goes into the guild bank.) The same would go for LFR, possibly requiring the same number of guild members as it takes to qualify for a 10-man guild run. Sure, we have problems with guild collusion on rolling for loot in LFR but what if guilds got an added benefit for sticking around in a run to the end or if everyone passes on enough loot. (Or maybe a consolation prize if no one in the guild wins anything.) Even if the guild gets a free token that can be handed out to someone in the run who didn't win something, it might encourage more folks to go in with a coordinated and organized group to help out the solo folks and make the run a bit more smooth.
vf19glopez Jan 23rd 2012 3:27PM
I do miss the class quests, the Hunter Bow Chain, the Paladin Charger, the Warlock Dreadsteed, etc. Those types of quests gave excellent flavor for the classes, were a lot of fun, and didn't have the total mess that legendaries bring to the table. Bring some new stuff like that in please.
Take the legendary daggers, make them regular epics, take out the overinflated mat grind, and bam, decent rogue series in itself there and would have been far more reasonable.
More chains like Quel'Delar would be awesome as well. I had an absolute blast doing that and totally wished there was more like that in game now.
eel5pe Jan 23rd 2012 4:03PM
I am with you 100% on this, and I don't think it gets brought up enough. Whenever people clamored on the forums for more class-specific quests, the usual blue response was along the lines of "we don't like devoting a lot of development time towards designing quests that only a portion of the population will get to see". Fair enough, I disagree with your reasoning but at least it's a valid point.
But then they went through the trouble of designing these really interesting and convoluted quest lines for Dragonwrath and FotF, which not only are class-restricted but confined to an even smaller subset of those classes that are in raiding guilds. *Squint*. How does that make any sense?