Drama Mamas: The case of the mass guild eviction
What makes funsuckers do what they do? I really don't know, but here is a story about another victim.
Hello Drama Mamas,
I'm just writing to get your take on something that has happened to the guild I was in. Background is this: I joined a casual guild back in April/May last year when it was around level 6. Around level 9, the guild leader stops logging on, or when he did it was for two minutes and then we wouldn't see him for another 8 weeks plus. This went on for the last 6 months of 2010. After 4.3 hit we had the option to replace him, but he kept logging on with 2 days left to run.
I put a ticket to Blizzard and they got back to me saying unless he was offline for 30 days there was nothing they could do :( The guild is now level 20 and 1 bar short off 21 with no guild XP put in from the absent GL at all since it was level 9. Here is the cherry on top: I logged in yesterday to find the absent GL had come back and kicked everyone from the guild! We asked Blizzard for help before this could happen but were left waiting for this useless GLto come back.
Do you think Blizzard should have done more to help us? We have had no reason from the Guild Leader why. It's sooo frustrating and annoying because of personal time myself and the other guildies put in, only to get little or no help from the wardens of our virtual world and to get an almighty smack in the face from the absent, useless GL.
Thanks for reading
Used and guildless
During all this, you relied on one last shot in the dark, putting all your eggs in the basket of an angry appeal to Blizzard. The only thing is, the Big, Bad Egg himself was perfectly within his rights to do with his guild exactly as he did -- snatching back possession of his nicely leveled guild and leaving you former members with nothing but egg on your face.
I hope this won't put a dent in your willingness to bond with and trust other players, U&G. People aren't always that irresponsible and manipulative. But if you should find yourself in a situation like this again, watching some little brat banging and tugging and putting the smackdown on your favorite toy, then perhaps it's time to pick up and move to another sandbox.
I agree with Lisa in that you should have ditched the guild the first time the Guild Leader came back with two days to spare. That should have clued you in that not only did he not want to keep up the guild, but that he had actual malice toward his guildies. At that point, you and your guildies should have packed up and started a new guild. But we don't have time machines, so we can't go back and fix it.
In general, low-level guilds with open enrollment are neither cohesive nor long-lasting. Someone thinks the idea of owning a guild would be fun and would also like some people to play with -- or just some minions to have a little control over. It seems that you got the latter type. Sometimes people with very good intentions begin one of these helpful guilds but then find friends or a more advanced guild elsewhere.
I think that a guild consisting of the more active of your recent guild's members would do well. It would level up quickly, and you wouldn't be constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop. Go see Officer's Quarters for some help in setting up an appropriate leadership and some posted rules.
If you don't want to put another guild together or want to start anew elsewhere, try to get into a high-level (preferably max-level) guild that has posted rules and an active leadership. All established guilds have had time to level up. Either way, you should make sure that whatever guild you join is active and the level of the guild is a good gauge.
Good luck to you, Used. I hope you can just think of this as hard-learned education and not be bitter about it.






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
niko Jan 23rd 2012 9:06AM
yikes, i'm amazed you all leveled a guild with a GM that was absent.
Hate to say it, but like the momma's said, ya'll got what you payed for.
It's not so awful though... Try and flip this around with the people you DO play with, reboot the guild with someone you trust, and you'll find this was just a learning experience.
Aaron Jan 24th 2012 7:41PM
I had a guild with an absentee GM, but we still advanced about one level per week because the players were still active. We had officers who kept guild chat interesting, organized dungeon runs on the weekends, and encouraged us to do our dailies*. Eventually our GM started behaving similarly to U&G's, popping in for five minutes a week, so we moved on.
* Last I heard, guild EXP was 1/4 of quest EXP (Hotfix note 12/13/2010). If you can get 20 players to each do 80 max-level dailies a week, that's 20 * 80 * 55000 * 1/4 = 22,000,000 guild exp per week, which is well below the Guild EXP cap, but still enough to level up every 7-14 days. Completing Achievements and weekly challenges can accelerate this process further.
jtrack3d Jan 23rd 2012 9:12AM
Bottom line, Blizzard didn't design a good concept of guild ownership. If it requires 10 people to create it, then the GL shouldn't be in complete control. The exact system is debatable and a waste of time since only Blizzard can implement it. In short, the system is broke.
Lesson learned, if you have a GM that only logs in a few minutes a month, it's time to leave.
I have a toon in a guild that was all hot an heavy in Firelands, then SWTOR came out and no I'm the only one left. I could take the guild now, but I'd rather just leave it.
Noyou Jan 23rd 2012 9:46AM
I think now you only need 5 signatures, your own and 4 others. If you want to tell me that someone has any right to part of a guild for simply clicking on a charter, you are insane. Now, a member who has put in time and effort to help level a guild- that's a different story. It sucks that there are those who take advantage of people. I agree with Lisa, you can't sit by and enable the GM or officers to use you. If you are in a guild and the leadership is not to your liking, get out. Talk to other members and toss out the idea of making your own guild. If people respond, then there you go. You only need a handful now to level it up. Sure it might take a little longer, but you will have a say in the type of person you add to your ranks and be much happier for it.
jtrack3d Jan 23rd 2012 10:47AM
No, I don't think just signing gives you ownership. However, my point is that Blizzard requires more than one person to create the guild, and yet, once those sigs are gotten, only one person owns it. Like I said, though, how it should work is wasted debate since we have no control over it other than to just tell Blizzard we don't like it.
I think they could deduce that participation in the guild or some other factors should give players some say in how it goes.
Noyou Jan 23rd 2012 11:34AM
You do have a say- making your own guild is that voice. If you want any control over a guild, you should make your own guild. It's clear cut to me.
DarkWalker Jan 23rd 2012 1:35PM
What I think Blizzard should have made was grant the guild XP (and, in some cases, achievement progress) to the character, not the guild.
The total guild XP would be the sum of the guild XP of each character. If the GM kicked someone, his guild would lose the guild XP from that character. If he kicked everyone, he would most likely be left with a low level guild. If the rest of the guild wanted to reform, they could just create a new guild, that would start with the level and amount of XP of the old guild minus the guild XP of the old guild master.
Michael Jan 23rd 2012 2:04PM
Sorry Dark Walker, but I totally disagree.
That only opens guilds up to a different type of abuse. Like the guy who works to power level the guild with all of his characters, then demands payment from the guild, or else he'll de-level it a few levels.
Or the guy selling multiple levels in trade chat.
Or the faction that demands power from a GL because they've put in a certain amount of XP.
I just think that the occasional dick of GL is the least bad possible solution out there. Yeah, it sucks in situations like this, but it's a situation that isn't really as widespread. And I hate to "blame the victim", but as the Drama Mama said...these guys were incredibly foolhardy to keep plugging away for a guild that was clearly run by somebody who didn't care about it, apart from wanting to make sure nobody else could get control.
That's a giant red flag, but it's one that could probably have been forseen. Giving XP shares to individuals can create a much bigger problem, that won't be as easily expected.
Katherine Jan 23rd 2012 3:12PM
When I ask for guild sigs so I can have a funky guild name just for me, and boot the people that signed out, there's always one that gets upset. They've been in the guild for less than two minutes. I don't get it. How frequently do they sign guild charters? Cause there's always someone asking for a sig.
NOT comparing this situation to what happened to the letter writer.
Robin Torres Jan 23rd 2012 3:16PM
@Katherine If you tell them up front, you won't get whining, but will usually still get the sig.
Magma Jan 23rd 2012 9:25AM
I was in a guild like this, except we had no warning. One night the GL just logged on and kicked all 97 people. Officers included. No one saw it coming, just out of the blue. Assholes will be assholes.
Noyou Jan 23rd 2012 9:51AM
I have a level 25 guild that I put a lot of time and gold into. I have a good core of officers, that would no doubt transfer back my GM title if I decided to take a month or two off. Almost all of them have taken time off in the past however, for a month or more. There is no way I would transfer my title and leave it up to chance to see if I will still have a guild when I come back from a break. It sounds cold, but the way blizzard set this up, I would probably have to do the same thing, rather than take a chance on it falling out of control of someone I left it under.
Sagretti Jan 23rd 2012 10:22AM
"I have a level 25 guild that I put a lot of time and gold into."
The problem is that many of your members have probably put in a lot of time, gold, and effort of their own. You can't level a guild to level 25 by yourself. You're saying that their contributions to the guild mean nothing, and it's all yours no matter what. While you have the power to kick everyone from the guild, what you'll be left with is a level 25 guild that nobody will want to join once word spreads about what you did. Have fun paying for name changes and server transfers.
Michael Jan 23rd 2012 2:16PM
Exactly Sagretti! Thank you for pointing out the incredible stupidity and illogical response that saying "I have no choice! If I want to keep my guild, I've GOT to kick everybody!" is. It makes no sense, whatsoever.
Do you really think that all of your friends that you kicked so that you can keep your guild will be okay with it? Do you really think that they'll all come flocking back the moment that you restart the guild? Do you think they'll all remain guildless during your absence? Do you really think you won't be trashed on your server, and that people won't avoid you from there on out?
Kicking everybody to keep complete control of your guild is an entirely fruitless enterprise. All you'll have left once you commit to that line of thinking is a bunch of perks, a guild bank, and nobody to share it with. No real guild. You'll have completely killed it, just so you can retain the title of guild leader.
And that will leave you with one choice...realm xfer it for about $100 after all of the other costs you'll probably have to deal with (and that's each time you decide to carry out this process and take a break) or just abandon the whole thing.
But keep being incredibly selfish about YOUR guild that nobody else contributed to, Noyou. Won't come back to bite you, at all.
Wonk Jan 23rd 2012 9:34AM
MMO's are full of guilds that use it's members to level the guild, even Require you run guild dailys, then boot you to be replaced with the GL real friends.
I have warned many potential guildies of this practice and it has prevented me from joining many guilds in the past. It's so common in F2P games I won't even join a guild in those, it's so badly abused.
It's a shame these honest players became victims, but they can't feel alone, it's way too common out there.
Pyromelter Jan 23rd 2012 1:51PM
This is why you should only join guilds that have official application processes. You want to interview the officers and see if the guild is a fit for you as much as it is for them.
Any guild that doesn't take that step is in danger of being the exact type of guild that you described, easily formed, easily griefed, easily disbanded.
loli.gigis Jan 23rd 2012 9:39AM
Always get out when you don't like who is in control. You have no one to blame but yourself for sticking around. You could have had a level 12 guild by now or even higher with more active guild members. Doing nothing about your situation got you absolutely nothing. If he wasn't going to voluntarily give control when he was no longer going to be active then he would of course not let you wrest away control. He probably sold the guild and everything in it. I wouldn't be surprised if he transferred his toon to another realm. I highly doubt he was inactive completely and paying $15 a month to just screw you guys over every 28 days. Although you never know... some people are that vindictive.
At this point either buy a guild that has a few levels too it or form a new one. The perks are nice in a high level guild but it should be more important to be with people you enjoy playing with.
Ramzor Jan 23rd 2012 9:51AM
The guild has never been property of its members, nor officers. Probably this guy was attracted by the money in guild bank and it's the same reason why the GM kicked everyone.
Did he put casual time on a casual guild with a casual gm? Worths zero, and it's not smart anyway.
warlockd Jan 23rd 2012 10:32AM
Sigh. Happened to my guild. The owner more or less gave up on it and hardly logged in. I thought he would be in SWTOR but even gave up on that.
Just recently logged into wow to find everyone was kicked and its owned by a level 1 bank charater.
Known those guys since wrath, just sad. With swtor content dried up in less than a month, been looking back to wow for my fix:P
Bridget Tierney Jan 23rd 2012 10:34AM
Two days ago, in a guild my friend help build up, that I had just recently rejoined on its new server, the GM's son logged on his father's account and made his own toon GM, and then kicked everyone from the guild and renamed the guild. I was told I could come back if I wanted...and that they thought the guild needed a fresh start. They kicked my friend who put nearly everything into that guild bank and had been GM a number of times, in a partnership with the GM who let his son mess things up. How fair is that?