Drama Mamas: The case of the mass guild eviction
What makes funsuckers do what they do? I really don't know, but here is a story about another victim.
Hello Drama Mamas,
I'm just writing to get your take on something that has happened to the guild I was in. Background is this: I joined a casual guild back in April/May last year when it was around level 6. Around level 9, the guild leader stops logging on, or when he did it was for two minutes and then we wouldn't see him for another 8 weeks plus. This went on for the last 6 months of 2010. After 4.3 hit we had the option to replace him, but he kept logging on with 2 days left to run.
I put a ticket to Blizzard and they got back to me saying unless he was offline for 30 days there was nothing they could do :( The guild is now level 20 and 1 bar short off 21 with no guild XP put in from the absent GL at all since it was level 9. Here is the cherry on top: I logged in yesterday to find the absent GL had come back and kicked everyone from the guild! We asked Blizzard for help before this could happen but were left waiting for this useless GLto come back.
Do you think Blizzard should have done more to help us? We have had no reason from the Guild Leader why. It's sooo frustrating and annoying because of personal time myself and the other guildies put in, only to get little or no help from the wardens of our virtual world and to get an almighty smack in the face from the absent, useless GL.
Thanks for reading
Used and guildless
During all this, you relied on one last shot in the dark, putting all your eggs in the basket of an angry appeal to Blizzard. The only thing is, the Big, Bad Egg himself was perfectly within his rights to do with his guild exactly as he did -- snatching back possession of his nicely leveled guild and leaving you former members with nothing but egg on your face.
I hope this won't put a dent in your willingness to bond with and trust other players, U&G. People aren't always that irresponsible and manipulative. But if you should find yourself in a situation like this again, watching some little brat banging and tugging and putting the smackdown on your favorite toy, then perhaps it's time to pick up and move to another sandbox.
I agree with Lisa in that you should have ditched the guild the first time the Guild Leader came back with two days to spare. That should have clued you in that not only did he not want to keep up the guild, but that he had actual malice toward his guildies. At that point, you and your guildies should have packed up and started a new guild. But we don't have time machines, so we can't go back and fix it.
In general, low-level guilds with open enrollment are neither cohesive nor long-lasting. Someone thinks the idea of owning a guild would be fun and would also like some people to play with -- or just some minions to have a little control over. It seems that you got the latter type. Sometimes people with very good intentions begin one of these helpful guilds but then find friends or a more advanced guild elsewhere.
I think that a guild consisting of the more active of your recent guild's members would do well. It would level up quickly, and you wouldn't be constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop. Go see Officer's Quarters for some help in setting up an appropriate leadership and some posted rules.
If you don't want to put another guild together or want to start anew elsewhere, try to get into a high-level (preferably max-level) guild that has posted rules and an active leadership. All established guilds have had time to level up. Either way, you should make sure that whatever guild you join is active and the level of the guild is a good gauge.
Good luck to you, Used. I hope you can just think of this as hard-learned education and not be bitter about it.
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
Saikoujin Jan 23rd 2012 11:20AM
Every time I hear these stories I think of Colony Collapse Disorder- the not-too-well-understood disease/condition that causes bee colonies to all of a sudden disband and die off. Scientists think its due to a fungal virus that causes a member or members of the colony to transmit bad coordinates for pollen gathering, and this sets the colony off on a one-way suicide mission.
It also reminds me of the movie Pandorum, where flight officers experience a severe mental disorder that causes them to go insane, sometimes leading them to jettison the other members of the ship off into space- e.g. oblivion.
Maybe there's a connection to the above two :-)
Jon Jan 23rd 2012 11:31AM
This thread, it reeks of entitlement.
Just because you help level a guild does not entitle you to ANYTHING. Don't like it? Start your own guild.
I would NEVER mass-gkick people from my guild the way the person described today did, but it sure is tempting sometimes. With people who ask for promotions without doing anything to earn them; people who EXPECT infinite amounts of guild repairs and EXPECT to be carried through raids, it's hard not to kick people!
The coin - it has two sides. Yes, some GL's are pricks. But often, so are a lot of the members! Perhaps it's the growing sense of entitlement that causes GL's to become pricks. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
AltMaster Jan 23rd 2012 11:40AM
It doesn't sound to me like you have the temperament to be a good GM. Maybe you should smoke something a little less potent.
Daedalus Jan 23rd 2012 12:34PM
Talk about a post smacking of entitlement...
Just because you have the title of GM doesn't entitle you to the fruits of your guild members' labor. They're not peons slaving away to mine gold for you, that's a different Warcraft; they're actual people who put effort into something, and deserve to see some benefit for their labor.
The current system does have real problems in that regard; that a GM can exploit their members and the members have no recourse but to quit and start over. However, I don't know what a better system would look like.
lilleas Jan 23rd 2012 1:07PM
yes because you leveled the guild all by yourself?? it sounds like you are rather bitter and if running a guild is not your thing pass it off.. people can be asses its just the way it is. let the people who have built it up use it and go off and do your thing for as long as you need. You will still be part of the guild and gain benefit from it, you just won't have control.
terph Jan 23rd 2012 1:45PM
Actually, I think some of these reactions are a little harsh. I see what he's saying. Sometimes the guild members stop working for the guild and rely too much on other members to provide everything without contributing anything in return. Had that experience before. Can really wear out the people who are doing all the work to provide. That's usually a sign of other guild problems though, and both leaders and members should think hard about what's going on there.
Pyromelter Jan 23rd 2012 2:05PM
I never understand why some GM's think "infinite repairs" is such a drag on a guild. Sure, if the guild is gold-poor, then you limit repairs. But if you're swimming in gold (as many high level guilds are), why is it so bad to just leave repairs on? Especially with the guild perk Cash Flow, that ends up infusing the gbank with a pretty significant amount of gold over time. The only time a guild should really be losing money on repairs is during progression raiding, and the reason you build up a guild war chest should be specifically for things like progression raiding.
Now if someone is throwing themselves off of dalaran and suiciding every 2 minutes just to take endurance hit to items specifically for greifing the gbank, then yes, you limit that member's repairs. But I would say you'd have a bigger issue with that member than just repairs if he was doing something like that..
Sarabande Jan 24th 2012 11:07AM
So, set up rules, set reasonable limits to bank withdrawals, set raid rules about being geared and prepared, etc. It sounds like you're not leading very well and complaining about it. Don't invite leeches, or if you find you have one, limit their activity or access until they stop. Otherwise it's not fair to the people who DO contribute or show up ready. Being careful about who to bring in is the first step.
If you're to the point that you think mass gkick is a good idea, maybe it's time you either stepped down or asked for more assistance from your officers.
Malenx Jan 23rd 2012 11:37AM
My assumption is the guild leader created the guild to sell it. He invited you guys and let you level the guild for him.
Once you got him high enough level, he kicked you to sell the guild to someone else.
The Dewd Jan 23rd 2012 12:13PM
It kind of makes me wonder how many other guilds that guy was letting other folks level for him at the same time.
Robin Torres Jan 23rd 2012 3:21PM
I never even considered this. I bet you are absolutely right. That would make more sense to keep coming back at 29 days than malice.
This doesn't change my advice. Following it will still help you avoid this scam, but ugh ... what a scam.
Mordok Jan 23rd 2012 11:42AM
I agree you waited too long to take action.
Our guild leaders quit to play that other newer game, the one about a tear in the fabric of time (I guess). Anyway they gave the leadership to a guild member who lived not only in a different time zone but a different country. He immediately demoted all the officers but his girlfriend and a couple of close friends. He, for a short time tried to do things but the simple fact he kicked all the officers caused everyone to shy away.
Some of us continued to play just for the love of the game but rolled alts on another server. To be truthful, and I actually hope he reads this so he understands, I chatted with a GM and found that after 30 days of not logging in we could request the GM be kicked and a new one assigned.
I watched and watched and finally he was away for 31 days, I complained and we got a new GM withing one day. We now have a good GM who works for the good of all and not just his best friends.
My point, if you have a good guild but a lousy GM he will eventually mess up and can be forced from the group.
Mordok Jan 23rd 2012 11:44AM
OOPS
That word is within not withing
sorry
Rolly Jan 23rd 2012 12:20PM
My 2-man guild got turned into a 100+ guild by the co-creator.
It's advertised as a levelling guild with guild perks and advice on how to instance.
If I was leaving the game for over 30 days I would kick everyone with no second thought.
Talk to Blizzard if you don't like it but thems the breaks, not going to jeopardize losing the guild to some by the rules new guy who sends in a ticket to get control of my guild.
Zeroelement Jan 23rd 2012 12:39PM
This actually was a large issue with my guild. we had just hit 15 or 16 and our gm was almost never around. There was a rumor of him passing the guild on to his brother who had just joined a month ago as opposed to vets of 2 to 3 years. A few of us actually gathered to confront him on this and he responded by booting every single one (and i mean not just the officers who talked to him) of us out of the guild and flaming all of us as traitors on our guild website.
We presented our case to Blizzard, showed them the guild website as evidence of his abuse of power, and gave them a unanimous vote as to who we would like to replace him and they actually helped us. They logged onto the gm's pally, gave a /ginvite and leadership to our curent gm, and suspended his account for something to the degree of griefing. They even went as far as to help save the guildbank he looted and transfered with his alt to another server. I got alot of respect for Bliz that day.
Possum Jan 24th 2012 4:03AM
That is full of win.
Happywithalts Jan 23rd 2012 12:40PM
Yes the current system sux. Nothing to stop a leader who in his zeal to save another galaxy sells the guild, sells gbank contents, and offers a merger to another25 guild filled with asshats who don't allow any outsiders on any raid team. All within their rights but still a crappy way to treat the folks who hung with you for years.
lilleas Jan 23rd 2012 12:52PM
This really sucks and I feel for the OP. I had a similar situation happen but the gl came back and stayed after being gone and staying on another server for about 6 months. by then I had taken out every character I had and moved on when I realized that I got out of it what I could. with an absent guild leader I wasn't about to keep leveling a guild that wasn't being contributed to by them just for them to return and take it to another server (they contemplated this but decided against it) and use the gold and guild levels for their use.
Florismart Jan 23rd 2012 1:40PM
It really sucks that it happens like that. But it really shows how callous some people are. About a year ago, I was in a guild with a group of friends. I knew then for a while in game and stuff. Their real life friend was the GM. Things were going well through the beginning of Cata. My friend, a pally tank, decided to organize runs into T11(this was January 2011) with a bunch of fresh 85s. The GM and his gf weren't around for a bit so pally tank RL decided to pug members. It went off decently for the first 2-3 weeks, getting down the first two bosses and moving up. The GM and his gf were playing again and they wanted to be in the run, and during this time Mr. Pally tank ginvited some of these pugs cause they had some potential to be core weekly raiders.
Unfortunately for the GM and his GF Mr. Pally tank didn't let them in the run because it was decidedly unfair to the pugs that were showing up. That led to a massive argument that lead with the pally tank leaving the guild and GM setting up a policy of no pugs in guild raids.
My friends who were real life buddies tried to talk him down from that edge but unfortunately rebuffed at every advance. So we decided to make our own guild where petty differences wouldn't divide us like that. So I've been GM to my ragtag crew and our number one slogan "Don't want no drama, no no no drama."
I also never make a guild decision without consulting with other officers so we show a united front and delegate most of the guild autonomy to them.
so TL:DR version
Make your own guild if you don't like how guild are operated, or find like minded people who wouldn't screw you over.
Tender Burntfuse Jan 23rd 2012 1:24PM
I think that Blizzard needs to Change some of the systems in Guild Ownership. A Guild is not the Guild Leaders. It is the People who raise and Nourish it. I think if a GM is Petitioned for guild Ownership change, and sees that the Petitioners are Heavy Contributers to the guild, with a standing history within them, they should take that into consideration - at the very least when such an act as a Guild Purge is committed.
Best of Luck getting things sorted out. Really. Its a Lousy situation.