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1-25-2012 @ 11:04AM
Do you think there has been a problem with the Alliance in Cataclysm?
1-25-2012 @ 11:14AM
The Alliance really needed a zone intro like the Horde received with Twilight Highlands. That's about it, for me.
1-25-2012 @ 11:50AM
Don't get me started on the state of the Alliance. D:
1-25-2012 @ 11:55AM
Does a bear shit in the woods?
1-25-2012 @ 12:01PM
The Alliance didn't come out feeling like heroes this expansion, certainly. To be perfectly blunt, you don't participate in any permanent Alliance victories. I'm going to stress the key words in that sentence again: 'participate', 'permanent', and 'victories'.Let's take Camp Taurajo as a classic example. The Alliance burned Taraujo to the ground--great, finally and Alliance militaristic achievement! Sure it was unimpressive, but the Alliance can really take just about anything at this point. Except... The Alliance don't get to hear about it. They don't participate in that attack at all. In the Alliance story, it may as well have never happened. What's more, in the Horde side of the story, they come back with the equivalent of their own A-Team to come back and get revenge on the individuals responsible for the supposed massacre.So not only was the militaristic accomplishment the equivalent of stealing candy from a baby, but you don't steal the candy yourself. You don't even get to *see* the candy get stolen. And then, as if to make matters worse, the baby pulls out a gun and shoots you before pulling out a different piece of candy.
1-25-2012 @ 12:17PM
There was Alliance in Cata? Really? Where?
1-25-2012 @ 12:34PM
Hey, we did loan our ship to Thrall after Deathwing broke hes so he could go and face roll hes over geared way into Warcraft history as the dude that hadoukened Deathwing to death.
1-25-2012 @ 1:26PM
It was the military equivalent of kicking a puppy.We have those gentle tauren, the least offensive, Cenarion Circle-druidy type Horde who also suffered the body blow of losing their benevolent and beloved leader Cairne, and we come along and stomp on their kitten. Way to go, Alliance. Makes me proud.Why didn't we do this to Razor Hill? Let the little orclets trudge through a charred and smoking ruin on the way to their capital of Gar-grimmar.
1-25-2012 @ 1:14PM
Based on the Cataclysm story post-level 80, yeah, Alliance are very poorly represented, but as far as what the alliance did during the story of Cataclysm, they did a fair bit. Personally, even though re-working 1-60 was essential to the game, making it a post-Wrath story was a biiiig mistake. All those Cataclysm stories and events would've been better served as additional gameplay for the +80 crowd. It would make both factions feel more relevant to more players.
1-25-2012 @ 1:15PM
*I haven't finished all of the quests in EPL, so this isn't perfect, but still...*-The Alliance gets NUKED in the Stonetalon Mountains. The Horde sees this as a moment of shame in which they went to far and are learning about ethics and morals (Garosh has actual character development! ZOMG). Meanwhile, the Alliance tries to save the dying druidic students that are burning to death, in the crater that used to be their town.The Alliance feels like their life sucks, and is ready to start getting aggressive. Personally, I wanted really badly to see some revenge. It didn't happen.-In the Swamp of Sorrows, a new female human warrior character is introduced that leads the assault. She's a total badass and gives the Alliance a drive to take back lands that had been lost since the First War. THEN WE SUCCEED. Unfortunately, right after our kick-ass victory, we RANDOMLY give the Horde their town back and walk away smug (but actually confused). We never see the cool lady again.The Alliance is given a small awesome feeling of accomplishment. Then it's taken away as if the entire quest experience was a waste of time.-In Ashenvale, the quests for both factions start with their respective towns under siege. If you don't play both, you won't know this. The Alliance slowly fights the Horde back so their town is "safe" for now. You still see the Horde outpost in the hills nearby with military equipment aimed at you. Nothing about them is done. The Alliance then goes about their business, never actually seeing the assault their own NPCs are staging on the Horde (which is also beaten back by Horde players, successfully). In addition to all of this, one of the main military sentinel outposts (the one in the middle of Ashenvale just north of a lake (I forgot the name)) is now under control of the Horde. The Alliance doesn't seem to mind.What's the big issue with these huge militaristic-based quest zones? ALL of them leave the Alliance feeling like their work was either A) A waste of time, or B) Just making up for losses from Horde attacks.Meanwhile, the Horde does still have B), but in addition, they have C) Successful attacks that they keep land with, or feel guilty about after, but who-cares-we-nuked-a-town-and-that-was-badass.
1-25-2012 @ 1:20PM
Let me say it this way, i've sick of world of thrallcraft. That is the shortest way I can answer that.
1-25-2012 @ 1:29PM
Permanent victories are complicated matters and largely tied to gameplay reasons. A victory NOT becoming permanent means far less than I think players imagine, because the reality is that they CANNOT become permanent in most cases.The assault on Camp Taurajo could've been a great use for phasing, though, on the Alliance side. That is indeed a missed opportunity.
1-25-2012 @ 1:35PM
Yes, there are, and I can tell you what the problems are:1) Blizzard rushed the release of Cata, thus, a lot of content had to be left out. It turns out all of that content was Alliance content, since Blizz decided to work on the Horde side of things first.Therefore, the Alliance intro quest to TH got dumped in favor of Fargo's whacky ride. The Worgen were supposed to get their own district in SW where the park used to be, and from there go questing in Duskwood, etc. Instead, they left a f*ing hole in SW and shipped the worgen to Darnassus where they get green and grey quests, their story left unfinished.2) While the Horde was supposed to get more territory this expansion to compensate for the Alliance advantage in Vanilla, Blizzard overdid it. Southshore was supposed to be destroyed by a tidal wave, they changed it so that it was bombarded by the Forsaken plague. The whole Forsaken expansionism is overwhelming, one wonders why they stopped at the Thoradin wall.The Alliance got no militar victories whatsoever, the only one being Camp Taurajo, that ended up being a guilt trip rather than a triumph.3) Horde leaders get a lot of developement, specially Garrosh and Sylvanas. The Alliance leaders... hardly any.4) Questing for the Horde feels like an epic experience. Questing for the Alliance alternates between depressive losses and Pop Culture references.
1-25-2012 @ 2:21PM
It's been said before, Chris Metzen favors the Horde. He's even admitted it himself. His bias was so obvious someone in PR probably made him wear that Alliance hoodie at BlizzCon to try to make him seem more neutral (despite what a CM says.)As long as one of the main storywriters favors one faction, the Alliance isn't getting any real attention.
1-25-2012 @ 1:47PM
I'm okay with one side winning an expac, because if a war was a constant stalemate it would be a boring story. In order to make the story interesting each side needs to have the upper hand now and then. The Horde won Cataclysm. Good.Likewise, if one faction won every fight and every war, there would be no reason to play the other faction. Blizzard realizes this, so they are starting off the next expac with the... Horde sacking Theramore? Wha...?
1-25-2012 @ 1:52PM
"The Worgen were supposed to get their own district in SW where the park used to be."I've been seeing this mentioned a lot, one person even claiming that the "Worgen Park" existed in the Beta. Where's the confirmation for this? I *played* the beta and never saw such a thing.
1-25-2012 @ 1:54PM
Also, the Alliance Twilight Highlands intro didn't get dumped because of content getting rushed. It got dumped because they changed the plot direction at the last minute, in order to expand on Benedictus' involvement with the Twilight's Hammer later.
1-25-2012 @ 2:06PM
I hate that Southshore was turned into freakin' slime and no Alliance NPC's notice at all or care. None. What the hell? I think Aerie Peak should be very concerned. I think Alliance leaders should be pissed off. But instead we get nothing at all as an Alliance player but a dead town.Now on the Horde side, you get to see two Alliance members investigating Southshore. Why is this only for the Horde to see?You get to talk to a Goblin who comments on how they bombed that town to hell and now he has no business there. Do Alliance see this? Nope.I think they failed hard with this story telling. Nuking Southshore is alright if the story demanded it, but having only one Faction react to said nuking is not. Having the Faction whose people were horribly slimed to death not care is terrible.The Worgen having to roll a Forsaken to see all of their starter experience is just as stupid.
1-25-2012 @ 2:18PM
Hey guys, remember that time when the Alliance navy had Thrall prisoner?...Oh I guess not, seeing how it was only shown or mentioned in the goblin-only starting story. :(
1-25-2012 @ 2:26PM
Eternauta, while the Worgen did get shafted, their relocation from SW to Darnassus made sense. They even explained this. They said they realized it was thematically more appropriate for them to have a place in Darnassus, since their backstory involved the Night Elves, than shoehorn them into SW. Yes, they did end up with just a tree, but their relocation wasn't the result of time crunch.And for the tidal wave, I am sure they had planned it all along it would be the Undead who destroyed Southshore. But with the unfavorable reaction to everything being pro-Horde (it's been going on for more than one expansion, and BlizzCon had already been criticized as promoting that mentality before) they decided to use a "natural disaster" explanation to "ease" the news.
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