Breakfast Topic: Does being overgeared matter?
by Anne Stickney 
Jan 30th 2012 at 8:00AM
I decided to wander into the Dungeon Finder the other night in search of Darkmoon books. There wasn't really any other reason for me to be in there. I had no use for justice points or loot; I just wanted the Darkmoon books so that hopefully I could get my hands on a bear next month.
However, I ridiculously outgear most of the instances I was hopping into -- so I did my best, hitting the tank with Tricks of the Trade, vanishing if I happened to pull aggro, and trying to stay low-key. It didn't really work, however, and there was one guy who was absolutely incensed with the amount of DPS I was pulling -- so much so that he dropped the group.
That bothered me, and it also got me to thinking. Is there really such a thing as being too geared for an instance? Why do people get so upset with people who are overgeared? As far as I was concerned, I wasn't in there to take loot from people; I was in there for a Darkmoon book. Gear upgrades were not on my list of things I was looking for, nor was transmogrification gear. If anything, the gear I'm carrying around and the numbers I'm pulling means it's going to be a slightly easier instance run, so ... I can't really see the reason why people would be upset about it.
What do you do if you run into a random heroic and you find someone who is way overgeared for the content? Do you breathe a sigh of relief and do the dungeon, or do you get upset at the player for being there? If you get upset, well ... why is this a cause for concern? Does it matter what a person's gear is, as long as they're pulling their weight?
However, I ridiculously outgear most of the instances I was hopping into -- so I did my best, hitting the tank with Tricks of the Trade, vanishing if I happened to pull aggro, and trying to stay low-key. It didn't really work, however, and there was one guy who was absolutely incensed with the amount of DPS I was pulling -- so much so that he dropped the group.
That bothered me, and it also got me to thinking. Is there really such a thing as being too geared for an instance? Why do people get so upset with people who are overgeared? As far as I was concerned, I wasn't in there to take loot from people; I was in there for a Darkmoon book. Gear upgrades were not on my list of things I was looking for, nor was transmogrification gear. If anything, the gear I'm carrying around and the numbers I'm pulling means it's going to be a slightly easier instance run, so ... I can't really see the reason why people would be upset about it.
What do you do if you run into a random heroic and you find someone who is way overgeared for the content? Do you breathe a sigh of relief and do the dungeon, or do you get upset at the player for being there? If you get upset, well ... why is this a cause for concern? Does it matter what a person's gear is, as long as they're pulling their weight?
Filed under: Breakfast Topics
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
bjorn9486 Jan 30th 2012 8:10AM
I like when people overgear the instance, it makes it go faster.
That being said, I do find DPS that pull so much aggro and then try to tank it OR that go ahead and just pull to be incredibly annoying. If I'm tanking/healing and you keep pulling aggro, I'll say something once. After that, I let you die. If your pulling aggro because you overgear the instance, learn to hold off for a couple seconds at the start of the fight or if you have no aggro-dump and start getting close, got back to auto-attacks.
TweakyDig Jan 30th 2012 9:50AM
I agree wholeheartedly. I was recently in a group where the casters (Boomkin and Arcane Mage) were doing obscene amounts of DPS. Thankfully the tank was good enough to hold his threat down, and we blasted through Well of Eternity. I do enjoy the fast runs, but it has to be done carefully or you'll be looking at wipes.
soporific Jan 30th 2012 6:58PM
As an overgeared Sub (PvE) Rogue, and an Overgeared Feral (Cat) Druid, I take threat in heroics often. As Feral, it isn't uncommon to take threat with Swipe, so, I wait a few seconds to dps. My Rogue, on the otherhand, has no AoE to speak of (Fan of Knives as sub is horrific.)
So, I just single target the hardest hitting mob in the pull, or the healer, or largest threat, you get the picture. Because of my gear, I take threat nearly every pull, particularly if the tank is focusing on another mob. When this happens, I just keep dpsing, I'll be doing nearly 30k, even when I can't backstab, which makes them die very very quickly, I also maintain a 5 cp Recuperate, which heals me for ~13k every 3 seconds, and I have three damage reduction cooldowns, so the healer can ignore me, I'll be fine.
If a dps can hold his own with the mob without aid from the tank or healer (As both a tank and a healer, I agree with this), it's not a big deal. Yes, it may be aggravating for the tank, but a quick whisper apologizing and saying that if I die it's on me goes a long ways.
Most of the time, the healer doesn't even notice.
Jamie Jan 30th 2012 8:11AM
I suppose if you're doing your best to help out the tank & healer and being courteous that should be enough.
Much better than a player who is a jerk or leaves because they're not topping the DPS charts.
My only complaint was if a DPS was massively overgeared and didn't curb their DPS to help with threat. Although, I don't believe that's an issue in the game anymore since 4.2's threat buff.
Matheus314 Jan 30th 2012 10:59AM
Believe me, it is. Even more on cata normals, where you can pug-match players with ilvls from 280 to 400...
brute Jan 30th 2012 8:14AM
My main character is a hunter, and just last week my guild downed Deathwing for the first time. I usually que for random heroics while I'm farming and the majority of the time I'll get whispers from the tank telling me how 'I'm the first hunter they've seen all day that knew where their misdirect button was' and how It's 'so nice to have someone not only out-dps them, but do considerably more dps'. I've had randoms where another hunter will ask me for advice, and I've even had other classes ask me if I had an alt of the same class and could give them advice. I've never run into players who get mad that I do so much dps, and it's surprising to hear honestly. But i guess it's like all things, some people look at you and wonder how you do it, and some people look at you with jealousy and ragequit.
razion Jan 30th 2012 8:16AM
I think this question is largely dependent on the situation.
For people who play under-geared tanks, seeing other players who are over-geared will reek of bad fortune. Over-geared dps STILL have a tendency to pull aggro. And indeed, because it isn't as easy to do nowadays, many attribute it to skill or an accomplishment ("Oh man did you see that? I totally just pulled aggro off the tank!"). And because it's rarer to do than it was before, most people don't tend to keep track of their aggro levels accordingly or use their threat dumps because they feel they don't have to.
For healers, it likely means you're going to see a faster or easier run. A well-geared tank will make your life easier. But like the previous case, seeing an undergeared tank in your group with overgeared dps will likely stress one out because now you have to off-heal this trigger-happy dps who can't seem to understand the concept of letting the tank take the hits.
If you're a DPS, a well-geared tank or healer is going to be a god-send more often than not. Other well-geared dps would likely just mean less competition for loot. The worst you'd have to worry about is if a healer is pulling aggro from gear, in which case you have to act as a pseudo-tank on the fly to prevent your healer from hitting the dust.
In the end, an over-geared tank is never a bad thing. In the end, an over-geared healer is rarely bad, and an over-geared dps is only as bad as the player (which can tend to be often, depending on your mileage).
karatesmashunhurt Jan 30th 2012 10:55AM
Without going into the details of threat generation: healers should never be pulling aggro - except in the first few seconds of the pull, or when new mobs spawn. Their healing should definitely not be a cause of them peeling off a tank who has had a second or two to establish threat.
Overhealing doesn't cause threat - so a healer's gear shouldn't cause them to be more likely to peel from a tank.
Otherwise I pretty much agree with you - no one complains about overgeared tanks/healers.
Arrowsmith Jan 30th 2012 8:19AM
I've never seen anyone take issue when I step into a regular heroic as a Hunter with an ilvl of 394. The tanks may get a bit nervous at first until I explain I'm BM so my total aggro is split across me and my pet nearly evenly, and that tends to calm them down. Healers love me because it means the boss dies faster and they have to spend less mana keeping everyone alive. If anything, I get annoyed with the DPS that think that having me do 25k DPS means they can deliberately ignore the mechanics that hurt them or make the encounter last longer.
pinkduck2202 Jan 30th 2012 11:26AM
25k at 394 ilvl is conservative, my friend :) I was thinking closer to 35k-40k on average for that ilvl, but hey, its a dungeon, it doesn't matter :)
krstfrvnhrt Jan 31st 2012 7:30AM
No offense, but if you're doing 25k with that ilvl in pugs, you should probably look up info on rotation/gear, since there is something wrong. As a feral-kitty with a 387 IL, i'm breaking 60k/50k depending if i pot or not.
RS Jan 30th 2012 8:19AM
Heck, Overgearing can make the run fast. And in some cases fun, especially if you had a few that were downright painful.
Like said above, managing aggro to stay off the mob's radar would really be the only concern.
Some people though cannot stand being #2 or 3 on recount. Their issue, not yours.
RS
ZodiacDragons Jan 30th 2012 8:21AM
Not an old instance but I grouped with a mage who was doing 60k dps in hour of twilight. Beat Benedictus before he cast a single wave. One of the shortest runs of my life. Outgearing the place means quicker runs so I love it when people make VP and JP easy to get.
Jem Jan 30th 2012 8:25AM
I think it depends on atttitude. I've been in runs where there's a clearly overgeared dps warrior and the player didn't try to tank the run or pull etc. Just dps'd and did their best not to pull off the tank and play co-operatively. The dps who decide to take over the run can make it more painful at times. If they out dps everyone that's fine as long as they're not a jerk about it.
I like overgeared tanks and healers if they don't encourage reckless behaviour that causes wipes due to cockiness. A fast smooth run is what people want, not someone showing off and creating problems.
rodmin Jan 30th 2012 8:25AM
If someone overgeared enters the group, then i feel happy, as there is an increased chance of the instance being finished faster. However, when troubles arise and the dude/dudette has problems with the fight or aggro, i help him/her out, just like with undergeared players.
But when a overgeared DPS outaggroes the tank a lot when i'm healing, if it's someone that's ussually squishy, i use my HoProtection, followed a simple whisper:
"Eh friend, there's a reason why i saved you with this shiny bubble. Watch your aggro!"
Trust me, nothing beats a bubbled kitty who's going around, waiting for the bubble to pop ^-^
Daranon Jan 30th 2012 8:27AM
I've had experiences where someone overgeared for something made things more difficult - in two different ways!
The first being the overgeared player had no Azerothly clue how to do anything. They didn't cc when asked, or didn't have an idea what that meant, they ignored the basic rule of don't stand in the bad...those kinds of things.
The second sort of overgeared being not a good thing is the self righteous 'I'm gracing you with my overgeared and therefore godly presence' sort. The kind who basically tries to ignore the usual mechanics because they think their uber awesome dps is going to carry the group. This kind is more annoying.
Granted, my overall experience with someone who is overgeared has been positive, but that's not always the case!
el.ghazi Jan 30th 2012 8:47AM
these types are usually hardcore raiders that have forgotten the subtleties of playing a toon in a group tactic situation.
In general hardcore raiders are the worst players in the game to run instances with because they not only don't play thier role right, they usually push tank to go too fast, and the have that irritating habit of belittling others around them. You even see it in forums...
because of the way damage meters work, you can pull low dps simply because you want loot your corpses while the speedster dps tools are pulling mobs to 'speed the tank up'
'Look how much better I am than you because my dps meter says so'
Killik Jan 30th 2012 10:54AM
I've always assumed the overgeared players who don't know anything are some raider allowing their buddy to play their character in a 5-man 'because it doesn't matter so much if you mess up'.
Vincentmagius Jan 30th 2012 11:46AM
I've been on both sides of being carried and doing the carrying. I had to do some research and learn how to play my class to as close as optimum as I could. I try to remember those low days.
I actually had a funny experience over the weekend. I joined a group at the second boss in HoT. They had just started the fight as I was loading in. When we were done, one of them commented that I had already done half the damage of the guy I replaced. I apologized for my low damage since I was coming in mid-fight, but would improve the rest of the run.
I looked at my meters after we were done. For the time I was in there with them, I as topping the meters with 2nd place about 5k behind. I didn't post meters because I only keep track of dps for me. I don't post meters unless we're comparing results. If you cared enough to know your numbers, you'd run your own meter.
xenothaulus Jan 30th 2012 8:37AM
I love it when a tank is overgeared. Easy Mode Activated. However, overgeared DPS tends to make things more difficult, in my experience, and leads to more wipes than anything other than undergeared/incompetent tanking/healing.