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by Anne Stickney 
Jan 30th 2012 at 3:00PM
I have a confession to make: I'm a guild killer.
I don't do it deliberately, I swear. See, back in vanilla, my raid guild lost pretty much all of its officers to EverQuest II right around the time Ahn'Qiraj-40 was coming into play. So the officers who were left (and the new guild leader) decided I should also be an officer -- and I agreed, which was probably the worst decision I've made in my life. Two weeks later, the guild was belly up and I was off trying out a roleplaying server for the first time, since I now had loads of free time to play an alt.
I figured it was simply the lack of leadership experience that had ultimately killed the old guild. The officers who had been promoted weren't really officer material, myself wholeheartedly included. After losing most of our officer corps, the wind had gone right out of the guild's sails, so to speak.
But see ... the trait of guild killing followed me after that. I couldn't help it. And I began to wonder if maybe I am just a terrible, terrible choice for an officer.
I don't do it deliberately, I swear. See, back in vanilla, my raid guild lost pretty much all of its officers to EverQuest II right around the time Ahn'Qiraj-40 was coming into play. So the officers who were left (and the new guild leader) decided I should also be an officer -- and I agreed, which was probably the worst decision I've made in my life. Two weeks later, the guild was belly up and I was off trying out a roleplaying server for the first time, since I now had loads of free time to play an alt.
I figured it was simply the lack of leadership experience that had ultimately killed the old guild. The officers who had been promoted weren't really officer material, myself wholeheartedly included. After losing most of our officer corps, the wind had gone right out of the guild's sails, so to speak.
But see ... the trait of guild killing followed me after that. I couldn't help it. And I began to wonder if maybe I am just a terrible, terrible choice for an officer.
Miri over at Guarded By the Light put together an excellent, insightful look about what it takes to run a guild -- and let me tell you from personal experience, it's a lot harder than it looks. If you take a look at Miri's post, you'll see what is just one small fraction of the everyday life of managing a guild. Miri's got the right of it, though -- running a guild is very much like running a business. And really, that's what struck a chord with me when I read it.
I am not a business leader. I am not a manager, and I am not a supervisor. At least, I'm not any of those things when I play a video game. For me, playing the game is about having fun playing the game, not time management and orchestrating events and figuring out who gets what loot drop. And there are lots and lots of people out there just like me -- people who want to play simply to play. But here's the thing -- everyone's got their own unique idea of fun.
I've been puzzled more than once at the antics of Auction House players, largely because I just don't understand what's fun about selling things on the AH. I think maybe, in the end, guild leadership is kind of the same thing. Miri's post illustrates just a little of what goes on in guild management, and Officer's Quarters talks about it every week as well. I'm guessing that as far as guild leadership is concerned, it's along the same lines as the Auction House -- either you really get it and you get the fun out of it, or you're like me, simply mystified by the process and not quite sure why anyone would call it fun.
Maybe I'm not quite a guild killer; maybe I'm just the one who wants to stay behind, make sure the building is cleared out, lock the door and turn out the lights. It's not the most pleasant of tasks, but there's something cathartic about that final /gquit. I'm not really a bad officer; I'm just not cut out for the task. But ... I think I'm still going to avoid any officer positions from here on out. Just in case.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Guilds
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 3)
mr.e81 Jan 30th 2012 4:59PM
Guild mechanics can be trying at times. Find a common goal and structure the guild arround it. I am a GM and our guild has a Motto, a guild rule and a goal "to have fun."
twbrienn Jan 30th 2012 5:12PM
I've played all roles spread across the 4 guilds I've been in on my main since I began playing back in '05. I've been an officer, a temporary GM, a "Co-GM", a raider, a raid leader. Personally I don't like being an officer. I prefer to be rank and file. a part of the faceless masses. I'm the quiet type. I can be on for hours playing the game without saying a single thing to anyone. Usually I'm tabbed out looking something up or listening to a podcast or reading a book as I farm this or that. My solitary play style birthed by a lack of online multiplayer in consoles a few generations back is seen as some kind of weird confidence /shrug. After turning down multiple requests to be an officer I finally compromised. I'm not an officer or a raid leader, I'm a set of eyes and ears while I sit quietly and play the game. If issues arise I take note and disperse information as needed. I'm like my guild's own personal NSA =o)
Homeschool Jan 30th 2012 5:22PM
What you need to remember is that all people are not equal. (Various rights movements will lie to you - don't listen!) Everybody has strengths and weaknesses, and as such, everyone is uniquely suited to a particular kind of role. Accountants, managers, builders, breakers, dancers, artists, writers (both fictional and factual), architects, engineers, soldiers, defenders, fighters, cleaners... It's a long list!
The point is, just like real life, in a guild everyone has an ideal role. There are people who make perfect guild leaders - organization, authority, fairness... They've got it in spades. There are raid leaders, and raiders. There's even the "heart", that person (or people) who are always friendly and supportive, fun to be around, and makes things better just by being there. Getting people into the right positions will make one of those organizations that just WORKS, without anyone seeming to try.
Now, when you try to stick someone in the wrong position... Problems will happen. I got (unexpectedly) made a guild leader when the previous leader left. I understood their reasoning, but it was probably the worst decision they could have made. The particular demands of a guild leader did NOT fit me, and when problems arose, my style of handling did not resolve the problem sufficiently. It died pretty quick.
So, I've learned that when they say "have a promotion!", the best thing to do is ask about the responsibilities of the position, and if they don't fit my role in the guild... "No, thank you." :)
Xantenise Jan 30th 2012 6:54PM
One of the first things I did was create a guild. I was surprisingly good at it, but it only lasted a few months.
It is tough work. Very tough work.
Redielin Jan 30th 2012 7:40PM
I think the trick here is that the guild is dead only when you think it is dead.
For instance, our 10 man guild lost 4 people at once off of our roster in one week. In a 10 man guild, that's a big time ouch. I really wanted to just call it quits. But we recruited hard, brought in a few semi-casuals to keep things going, and actually managed to get a progression kill on heroic yor'sahj.
If you really just don't want to play/lead anymore, then that's one thing, but if you want things to keep going, the first thing you have to keep going is yourself.
Other than that guild management boils down to:
1. Always be recruiting.
2. Delegate as much as possible.
3. Stay positive.
4. Be fair/impartial.
5. You can't please everyone. Refer to #4, but when #4 doesn't work, think about who you want in your guild and who you don't. 99% of the time, this backs up #4 but it helps you keep things in perspective; generally those who aren't following #4 very well are not people you want in your guild anyway. Perhaps another way to think of this is that everyone wants to feel like their *concerns are being heard* even more than they want everything to go their way.
6. Have a vision. You aren't leading a group so much as you are constructing a building. What kind of building would you like to leave after your last log-off?
I feel like being a teacher really informs being a guild officer, and vice versa.
Lemons Jan 30th 2012 7:32PM
It is true you have to be a businessman to run a guild. That sometimes means being a ruthless prick to get results. If anything...in my singular leadership experience I think I was being too lenient. You have to foster an culture of excellence, basically make people understand that being below the bar is simply not okay. If you let even one person slack then they'll all slack to some degree or another.
Then again...I don't play for "fun", at least not by many people's definition. A lot of folks seem to think "fun" is never researching their class, doing low DPS and/or mediocre tanking and healing, and wiping on the same easy boss for a months. Fun to me is progression...downing bosses...getting shit done.
Miri Jan 30th 2012 8:21PM
I have this same attitude, and I won't deny that it causes me to butt heads with other players.
Those things need to be agreed upon by the team(s).
My interest is progression, playing with those who are willing to devote the time in (and out of) WoW. If you aren't willing to cap VP weekly (f you still need upgrades), if you aren't willing to play your spec and practice, if you aren't willing to research your role in a fight and how you can benefit your team, then I'm not really interested.
I have no desire to wipe on farm content because people don't want to play their best.
But if my Raid Leader is more interested in running a casual raid (or maybe they are even more "hardcore" than I am, whatever it may be), then I'm probably not going to devote the effort I do, and I'll probably look elsewhere for my raiding fix.
It's me being honest with myself and reminding myself that I won't settle for something I don't agree with.
The guild management and/or raid leaders need to be upfront with applicants and their raid team about how the guild plans to play.
A lot of that goes back to a guild setting their goals and messaging them out to their members.
My rambly .02 cents =)
Lupos Jan 30th 2012 8:03PM
I have a list of guilds that have been killed just because I've been in them. I've joined several established raiding guilds and as soon as I join raid attendance starts to drop and the guild leader eventually quits WoW. It has happened at least 5 times and I don't know why. I mean I show up on time, raid, listen well and learn but I must have an aura of guild death about me.
kurnos Jan 30th 2012 8:14PM
if i spec a toon into healing, within a month the guild goes belly up. lost 4 guilds doing that so i just dont heal.
Miri Jan 30th 2012 8:14PM
Anne,
Thank you for the feature! There's actually a follow-up post coming (when I spend an adverse amount of time in a car I start a bulletized list in my head of things I want to discuss at later dates)--which was why I was so shocked when I was told that this was posted!
I think the one thing that I can appreciate from your discussion is that you know what you want out of the game, and what you don't want to do when you sign on. You've set your own limits and know your strengths and weaknesses.
I think too many times we get well meaning people who are pushed into positions that they don't want to be in or know how to handle. But they don't want to say "no thanks," so they try to muscle through it. And the end result is that it either works out and they are miserable because they are out of their element, or they just can't put the effort forth that needs to be there and the guild stumbles along with them.
One of my officers came to me in BC and said "this isn't fun for me--I just want to play the game and not deal with all the noise." And I told him I respected his honesty and the fact that he was forthcoming to me about his feelings. He was demoted at his own request and we continued to function. He found his happiness with the game again and the guild continued to progress.
I'm not usually willing to admit defeat, I'll be honest. Very rarely will I reach out for help when I'm overwhelmed at work. I just buckle down until the issues are worked through. Only once have I said "I'm not having fun. I don't want to do this." Did it benefit me? Actually, it did. I was able to shift some stuff around on my plate, get more involved with things I wanted to work with, and while my days are still long, I enjoy what I do.
The best leaders are going to be the ones who are passionate about what they do :) The enthusiasm shows in their day to day interactions with their members!
Mork Jan 30th 2012 8:50PM
I think you're very much right with the concept of it being somewhat based on business. Not so much in any sort of intelligent way, but more so the personality types. We all have our flaws and sometimes it takes being put in a role we've not experienced to understand what we're really terrible at. I've known for years that I'm terrible at leading anything unless it's purely by example. I can't delegate, if I see something needs to be done I do it myself, which doesn't work in a team. I can get moody, a flaw I'm well aware of, but as a guild officer or god forbid a GM, you really have to keep a consistent presence, and people don't take it well if you're having a bad night and don't want to talk to anyone. And the stress! I seriously feel empathy for large guild officers and GM's. So many people play this game from so many different backgrounds, and for so many different reasons, it's nearly impossible to keep that many people content. Never mind playing the game for...fun?!
I do think the hardest part for guild leading is the same thing I struggled most with in the business world. Firing people. You have someone that is disruptive, can't or won't fulfill their role and is generally a downer, you really have to get rid of them. It sucks to fire people in real life, it also sucks in a game. They may mean well, they may be friends with people in your guild, and you may catch a ton of flak for letting them go, but if you don't hand out pink slips when necessary you end up with more problems down the road. Granted, it's a fine line and you almost have to have some sort of secret 3 strikes rule or something. If you just boot people regularly others will leave and think you're being some autocratic dictator. You can't really openly tell everyone why you are firing people either as it's counter productive to your guild, as well as being overly cruel to the person you booted.
Well, I could go on and on, but will just end it in thanks for reminding me why I want nothing to do with guild control in any way shape or form, I was recently considering an officer role and this got me thinking on why I would regret it.
Luke Jan 30th 2012 10:30PM
It takes all kinds to make a guild work. Those who manage best are usually the best guild leaders and officers but they are not always the funnest to play with. Conversely the people I enjoy playing with the most are horrible at managing guilds.
Those strange types who are both are rare and generally burn out, the latter would describe myself. I've never lasted more than three to five months before getting burnt out on raid leading or any other type of managerial position.
snarkygoldfish Jan 30th 2012 10:41PM
I'm definitely the opposite. I LOVE the challenge of helping to run and coordinate things-- I've been involved with such, especially in terms of Role-playing communities / guilds / organizations for over a decade now. Helping to bring storylines together, plotting, even helping coordinate raids and events are all part of the overall game to me.
In the ancient days of AOL's Rhy'Din -- it was running part of what was at the time an unheard-of HUGE free-form fantasy guild. Over 1k members in it's prime, and it's where I really cut my teeth in learning how to guide stories and pull people together.
On Gaia Online, it culminated in a guild I'm proud of existing for over four years now; still active with posting and RPing (Gaia is a forum-based site) and several hundred thousand posts.
On WoW, it's been a tougher process. My high-point for helping to run a guild was during ICC; a friend and I had an idea for a storyline. We "broke off" from our main guild to achieve this with a number of other dedicated raiders / RPers and became known for our RPing as our raiding on our backwaters little server. When our characters came in from the frontlines and the insane missions they took on to say something; people listened.
Cata and the focus on guild levels killed us...and I hopped servers, but after trying out a few guilds and none of them quite fitting, I'm again in a place, especially RP-wise with a great little guild that is allowing me to help out. And I've got some great things planned for the Seventy Third.
The most successful guilds / RP groups are the ones that understand that responsibilities and duties need to be delegated. That it can often be a thankless and sometimes even frustrating job, and that communication between officers -- on policy, on schedules, on an overall philosophy for the guild need to be seamless. And it needs to be fun for the people you're doing this for.
nodsarmy Jan 30th 2012 10:46PM
i am a guild killer. i have killed 7 guilds on 1 server 6 horde and 1 ally. and one more ally on a dif sever. by me just being in the guild roster they fall apart and idk why that is.
mibu.work1 Jan 30th 2012 11:07PM
I have only once left a guild while there was a guild to leave. Each time before that, I left a guild because it was dead. I am not one to spring for officership, nor guild leadership, hell the latter terrifies me. I don't want to be the person of ultimate authority, but I also do not want to be a non-entity. I want to help the guild, be an ambassador to other guilds, manage recruitment or if need-be be the person who brings down the hammer when the time calls for it.
Fox Van Allen Jan 30th 2012 11:44PM
does this mean I get Tyler back?
Anne Stickney Jan 30th 2012 11:51PM
Not on Tuesdays, Thursdays or Sundays ;P