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2-02-2012 @ 11:02AM
In light of the recent paladin bug, what constitutes an exploit? There’s the obvious case of steam-rolling current content or stepping into PvP for kicks, but how far does it extend? Would soloing Cataclysm heroic dungeons qualify? What about older content? Say I ran out to Ulduar and took down Heroic Yogg alone . . . exploit or harmless? What about ICC? What if I was able to finish Shadowmourne and obtain the quest items by myself? I’m just curious where the line is. Is playing at all with the bug active going to qualify?
2-02-2012 @ 11:09AM
If you did something outrageous, like take 10 ret paladins to firelands to clear it -- that's exploiting.If you just raided like normal and were "huh, bosses are going down faster." or "odd, my DPS is way up" or "my meters must be broken, but wtf, stuff is dying quick tonight." -- those cases are not active exploitation and you'll be fine.Blizzard doesn't ban over problems in their game. They ban over people actively being idiots.Soloing heroic cataclysm dungeons? Yeah, that's exploiting. You might get away with it, you might not. Older content? Maybe. Since you could do it alone Blizz might turn a blind eye, but then again, they might not. I wouldn't take the chance here.Solo Ulduard on Heroic Yogg, or ICC, or finishing Shadowmourne where you'd normally need other players? Yup. Exploiting.It's pretty obvious when you're actively looking to use a bug. I hear all the time about these things, and I have never ran into a case where someone "mistakenly" cleared Ulduar by themselves.
2-02-2012 @ 11:13AM
Too bad. It'd amuse me greatly to destroy Flame Leviathan on foot.
2-02-2012 @ 11:12AM
Exploit is when u find a bug, and instead of reporting it you use it for and advantage.If you CANT solo a dungeon/raid with out that bug, but with the bug you can, and you start to do it, then u are using the bug, so it is an exploit. No matter if is old content...
2-02-2012 @ 11:24AM
So where is the line? If my 10-man brings two pallies and gets its first heroic kill, is that exploiting, if they wouldn't have gotten it otherwise?Obvious cases like 10 pallies are easy to classify as exploiting. But what about less obvious ones?
2-02-2012 @ 11:27AM
Honestly, clearing Firelands like that, just the one time, is amusing. It's not worth a ban, in my opinion. Now if you used it to progress in Dragon Soul, that'd be a different story. But normal Firelands? Eh.A 15 second Lord Rhyo kill would be an awesome thing to catch on video.
2-02-2012 @ 11:30AM
Probably not exploiting (mostly just hilarious), but Matticus pointed this out on Twitter. Check out the LFR tab:http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Dragon_Soul/dps/
2-02-2012 @ 11:36AM
I doubt anyone is going to get banned for soloing heroics, especially since people have been soloing them -without- the Ret bug for several months. It is technically an exploit, but using it in that fashion doesn't provide any significant rewards or competitive advantage. Whoopty-do. Some justice points and outdated gear. Even if you were to take 10 Ret Paladins into Firelands and steamroll the place, it's still a nerfed and outdated raid that provides rewards inferior to what's available in normal DS. The thing that's most likely to get you banned, is doing things like rated Arena's or Heroic-DS progression. If your 1/8H guild stacks 8 Ret Paladins and clears out 5 new hard modes in one night, yeah. You'll get banned for that.
2-02-2012 @ 11:57AM
It was incredibly fun for a short time, but then it sucked because I benched myself out of fear of getting actioned.I was doing a bg and it actually took a few minutes for me to realize something was up. I charged into a huge scrum of allies in the Battle for Gilneas; it was about 7 allies at WW versus only 3 of us, so I assumed we were going to get crushed. The allies started going down like flies, but I am in almost full conquest gear so my first thought was, "Wow, a lot of these guys must be quest greens." I even typed something like "These guys are in crap gear, time to roll face" into BG chat.Then I judged a healer just so I could close the gap with Long Arm of the Law, and he died, from 100%-0%, in seconds.The BG ended pretty damned quickly after that. Sadly, they had no ret paladin, so I was basically Godzilla versus Tokyo.I checked the forums, saw what was up, thought about it for a bit, and finally erred on the side of caution. I figured that I couldn't be held responsible for the first BG, but if I went back in it would be a lot harder to defend my innocence. I'd like to say that I held back purely out of a sense of altruism and fair play, but I'd be lying.
2-02-2012 @ 12:08PM
Maybe it's just me, but I would think the concept of the permaban - which, if I'm wrong about this someone PLEASE tell me, but I assume it means that user account is essentially gone and those toons can never be used again - should be reserved for only the most extreme circumstances (genuinely harming another person or engaging in actual criminal behavior in some form). Some 13-year old gathering his buddies so they can laugh hysterically while steamrolling Firelands? Sure, I can see how they'd want to discourage it, seems perfect for a 3-day ban, but the perma variety? I'm not arguing with anyone here about whether Blizzard would do this, I certainly don't know if they would; I'm just saying, if they're seriously going to take all that kid's toons away forever and break his heart, they've got something seriously wrong with them. It'd be like instituting the death penalty for jaywalking.
2-02-2012 @ 12:20PM
Hyperbole. If we were to ban folks for the behavior on this list we'd have to ban the soloing DK community. How is taking 10 paladins with a bug different than taking 10 blood DK tanks into Firelands? Same with solo'ing Yogg-10. DK's done it before. Soloing Cata heroic dungeon bosses? Been done by DK's -- two at once, even. No bans. Soloing ICC-25 to get a shadowmourne quest items would be improbable as it requires multiple weeks of 25 man raids to complete and no bug would last long. Old content is old content.
2-02-2012 @ 12:24PM
@ Loop - I'm not sure what's sadder - all of those ret pallies showing up at the top, or the fact that a couple of fire mages still eked in there (on Spine, admittedly, where you have to throttle your damage a lot, but still)...
2-02-2012 @ 12:38PM
That's probably smart clundgren. It's one thing to do some old content with a temporary overpowered bug. It's another thing altogether to use that bug to just destroy people in PvP, as well as not really being fun.I think it's more of a gray area on current PvE encounters. I don't think it matters much in LFR dragon soul since most pugs are clearing it, and anyone doing farm normal DS no biggie. But I'd have to imagine a guild utilizing it on heroic modes, like Spine, it would really trivialize the burst needed on those burning tendons. Or if a guild was no where close on heroic ultraxion and then they stack a few pallies and just roflstomp it.Then again, all of DS heroic has been cleared for like a month now. I dunno, PvE is so gray to me with bugs like this. Can you have a "competitive edge" in PvE when there really isn't any current competition going on for PvE kills? PvP on the other hand, it's pretty black and white, if you realized you were OP and exploited arenas or BG's, that's just not right.So clundgren, I think you did the right move by refraining from PvP'ing in godmode.
2-02-2012 @ 1:26PM
@ Pyromelter,While I agree with you in principle, I have to disagree with you on one key point: it was fun.It was really, really fun.It was FUCKING AWESOME!
2-02-2012 @ 1:39PM
I'm looking forward to this story being told in future, appended with "this is back when 100,000 was a lot of dps."
2-02-2012 @ 2:12PM
What about this?I know about the bug but don't have a replacement for my ret pally that has a fixed spot in my team. Do I stop raiding or just go and make progress on my heroic raiding nonetheless?It seems farfetched that Blizzard would punish a raiding group/player because they are doing what they would be doing anyway on that night, even if they do know about the bug.On the other hand, groups that don't usually have a ret pally just get screwed in the world rank while many have progressed far more easily than they would have otherwise yesterday...
2-02-2012 @ 3:16PM
This one is pretty tricky because no real tricks are involved. It's not like that loot bug that got a number of top guilds suspended a while back where you had to disconnect to make it work. With this ret bug, you just had to play normally. Sure, gathering 10 rets to stomp content probably shows intent, but then you're punishing people just for grouping all paladins? It's sort of like that recent story on 10 DK's taking on Firelands.IMHO, Blizzard should rollback achievements rated BGs and arenas and such, but outright banning and suspending people seems too much. Especially at how hilarious this one was.
2-02-2012 @ 3:25PM
My ret pally wasn't bugged when I tried today. Darn. I didn't want to do anything that would cause bannination, but it would be really funny to play with. Some of the parses show people spiking at 1 million DPS. WTF? That is pretty hilarious. Although now the ret rankings are super-boned. I am pretty bummed because I don't think I'll *ever* beat 300k DPS on a fight with my current gear, even if I procced TVs until the cows came home. First it was not having Gurth until after the nerf, now this. (sighs)
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