Dev Watercooler: Ghostcrawler on class roles
With the Mists of Pandaria press event still a month down the road, Lead Systems Designer Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street has posted a new Dev Watercooler to keep us busy. This time, he philosophizes on the role of class roles. He cautions up front that this is not meant to be any sort of announcement or even hint at what's to come in Mists of Pandaria.
But at the same time, the struggle of what to do with class roles is one that's always relevant and ongoing within the game, and that includes Mists of Pandaria. Ghostcrawler gets right into the meat of it with this blog, asking questions and discussing various methods of balance. Do we strive for perfect balance among all DPS specs? Is it fine to leave certain specs with specialties? Should we return to the days of the solid divide between PvP and PvE specs, as it was in the vanilla era? Should each class just have one DPS talent tree? Read on for all of Ghostcrawler's comments.
World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria is the next expansion, raising the level cap to 90, introducing a brand new talent system, and bringing forth the long-lost pandaren race to both Horde and Alliance. Check out the trailer and follow us for all the latest MoP news!
But at the same time, the struggle of what to do with class roles is one that's always relevant and ongoing within the game, and that includes Mists of Pandaria. Ghostcrawler gets right into the meat of it with this blog, asking questions and discussing various methods of balance. Do we strive for perfect balance among all DPS specs? Is it fine to leave certain specs with specialties? Should we return to the days of the solid divide between PvP and PvE specs, as it was in the vanilla era? Should each class just have one DPS talent tree? Read on for all of Ghostcrawler's comments.
The Deluge
A monsoon is coming. We will soon inundate you with Mists of Pandaria information, starting with the upcoming media event and everything that follows. It's going to be a very exciting time for World of Warcraft, and we are all super impatient for it to happen.
But... we're not quite there yet. I want to make that clear upfront, because this blog isn't directly Mists of Pandaria related. You won't find any announcements here, just a philosophical discussion that you may or may not find interesting. If you're looking for thrilling announcements, you know what I'm going to say: Soon™.
Multiple DPS Roles
I said this blog isn't directly relevant though, because I want to discuss a topic that we did struggle with a lot during Mists development, and indeed through most of World of Warcraft. We have classes with multiple DPS specs, and for mage, warlock, hunter, rogue, warrior and death knight, there isn't even a melee vs. ranged distinction between those DPS specs. The question comes up all the time: "what is the role of these roles?" I don't think there is a right answer here, and we've even changed the design a few times over the last several years. Again, I'm not couching this in terms of an imminent announcement or anything. This is fundamentally one of those designs that could go in a lot of different directions. It's something we discuss a lot, and we figured given the strong opinions of our forum-posting community, many of you probably do as well.
A paladin can choose from among specs that let her be a tank, melee DPS or healer, and can shift around which role she fills in a raid or BG team from week to week. Through the Dual Spec feature, she can even do so within a single evening. If her group doesn't need another healer, or if she needs a break from tanking, she can become a DPS spec fairly easily without having to swap to a different character. A warlock doesn't have that luxury. Yet, the warlock still has three specs. Is the idea, then, that you are supposed to swap from Destruction to Demonology and back depending on the situation? Is the idea that you play Affliction if you like dots and Destruction if you like nukes? Or do you just switch to whatever theoretically does 1% more DPS for the next fight?
Players are sometimes cavalier about throwing around the claim that there's a "lack of design direction" when they want their character buffed. Of course, classes always have a design direction; players just sometimes disagree with it. My point is that just because we debate whether the current design is the best possible one doesn't mean there isn't a design at all. That distinction is important. And of course, we do have a directive for which DPS spec you should play: whichever one you enjoy the most. But that doesn't mean that is the best model or that it can't ever change. There are other models we could try.
Model One – Everyone is equal all the time
If your DPS and utility are the same across specs, then you just play whichever one you prefer. Maybe you like the kit of the Frost mage, or maybe you like the rotation of the Fury warrior, so you play them. As I said above, this has been the model we have used for a while now, with mixed success. The challenge is that "all the time" caveat. We can get all of the DPS specs pretty close together on target dummies, and indeed they actually are very close on target dummies today. Our encounters aren't target dummies though. Having some adds increases the damage of dot-specs. Having lots of adds increases the damage of strong AE specs. Having to move on a fight, and how often and far you have to move, can cause DPS to go up or down differently. Even if DPS is only off by a few percentage points, many players will respec to the one with the highest DPS (even if it's theoretical, even if for them they will do lower personal DPS than if they had stuck with a more familiar spec). A mage who just loves Fire might be frustrated if he ever has to go Arcane, while another player might be happy that he gets to try different specs for different fights.
The class stacking we've seen on the Spine of Deathwing encounter relates to the need for massive burst damage in a specific window, such that the difference between a one minute DPS cooldown and a two minute DPS cooldown matters. Even if we could make sure every spec had the same AE vs. single target damage, do we now need to also ensure every spec can do the same DPS in burst windows of various lengths? Is that even mathematically possible? Or do we just test every spec for every raid encounter of the current tier and tweak class mechanics around for whatever is the current status quo? That implies a high rate of change, and I wonder if we'd lose a little bit of the fun of experimentation and theorycrafting if it was basically accepted that you could take any spec to any fight and do about the same damage. It's more balanced, yes, but does it lack depth or flavor? Is it fun?
Model Two – Everyone has specialties and you match the spec to the situation
Under this model, we would establish spec specialties. For example, Arcane could be good for single-target fights while Fire is great at AE fights. Some of that design already exists in the game, but we try not to overdo it. If you really like playing one mage spec, or really detest constant spec swapping, then this model isn't going to be to your liking. Furthermore, we don't want to overstrain our boss design by having to meet a certain quota of AE vs. single target fights and movement vs. stationary fights and burn phase vs. longevity fights or whatever. It is also really hard to engineer these situations in Arenas or Battlegrounds (for example, both mobility and burst are extremely desirable in PvP), so in those scenarios there still may just be one acceptable spec.
Model Three – You swap specs to gain specific utility
If we used this model, then you might switch out to a different spec to gain a specific spell. Again, we have some of this today. A DK might want Unholy's Anti-Magic Zone for a certain fight. Hunters might go Beastmaster to pick up a missing raid buff. Mages might go Fire for situations where Combustion shines. Druids might go Balance when they need the knockback from Typhoon. A little of this sort of thing goes a long way though. As in Model One, not every player wants to have to swap specs. If you just like Survival, you might resent having to go BM to just to buff someone. If knockbacks are too potent, then it really constrains your raid composition and makes even casual guilds feel like they need to keep a stable of alts or benched players for every fight. If, for example, there wasn't a boss in the current raid tier for which warrior abilities really shine, then warriors start to feel like a third wheel, yet trying to make sure every boss in a tier has a moment for every spec to shine is a pretty daunting task.
The extreme case of this is the "utility" spec who does middling DPS, but brings a lot of synergy and utility that improves all of the other specs. This was the Burning Crusade model, where classes like shaman and Shadow priests were brought to raids just to make the pure classes (and warriors, who were always treated as pure classes back then for some reason) do better DPS. In Lich King, we changed the design to make different raid buffs and abilities more widespread and give groups much more flexibility in their raid (and to some extent dungeon) comps. We heard from Shadow priests that they wanted to do competitive damage, not just be there to make everyone else more awesome. But even today we get a lot of requests to improve the utility of someone's spec so that they are more likely to get invited to a group.
Model Four – There is just a best spec for PvP and PvE
This was the model of vanilla World of Warcraft, and we understand some players wouldn't mind it returning. In this model Arms and Frost and Subtlety (and other specs) were designed to be good for PvP, while others, Fury and Fire and Combat perhaps, were designed to be good for PvE. The PvP specs might have better mobility or survivability or burst damage, while the PvE specs have better sustained damage over the course of a 6-10 minute boss fight. A lot has changed since vanilla. We don't make many raid or dungeon encounters these days where DPS specs can just stand in one place and burn down a boss. Mobility, survivability, and burst damage can all be really useful on particular encounters, sometimes trumping the higher DPS offered by a competing spec. (There's that old adage that dead do zero DPS.) In addition, if there is a PvP spec and a PvE spec, then for pure classes that implies that your third spec lacks much of a role. (The good leveling spec? Is that exciting?) Furthermore, our Mists of Pandaria talent tree design explicitly takes away some of the tools from the traditional PvP specs and makes them available to other specs in the class. If this works out, then you can take your Frost mage raiding, or have an Arcane mage for PvP who uses some of what traditionally were Frost's control and escape tools. That's great if you PvP and love Arcane, or PvE and love Frost. It's less cool if you were the kind of player who was totally comfortable with the simpler (and possibly easier to balance) design of having dedicated PvP vs. PvE specs.
Model Five – Don't have multiple DPS roles
This is the most controversial model and the one that would require the most change, meaning we are almost certainly never going to do it. For sake of completeness though, you can argue that classes never should have been designed with multiple specs that fill the same role. In this model, either Arms or Fury goes away and gets replaced with something. (Archery? Healing?) Warlocks and other pure classes would need a massive redo to end up with say a melee and tanking warlock. Everyone becomes a hybrid. The hardest decisions becomes whether you want to be the ranged or melee DPS version of your class (like druids or shaman). This idea is elegant from a design perspective because it un-asks all of those questions about how much more damage pure classes should do than hybrids to justify their narrower utility. But, perhaps counter-intuitively, elegant designs often aren't the strongest ones (I could write a whole blog on that topic alone). Model Five is the kind of rhetorical question you could go back in time and ask before WoW launched, but not the kind of thing we could change today without taking an enormous amount of effort, to say nothing of the irate players who would feel bamboozled that we were so dramatically changing their character out from under them. I try to never say never, but this model isn't the kind of change you make in a mature game. It's here only for completeness and because I suspect some of you will bring it up.
But Which is the Best Model?
Hell if I know! I fundamentally believe that none of these models is, without question, the obvious right one. All of them have advantages and disadvantages, and there are probably other models you could come up with that are variants on these five, or perhaps even something new. Like I said, we're not announcing a philosophy change yet. If we get enough feedback for one model or another, we might eventually change our minds. Also for this blog we're going to lock the comments and ask that you post your replies in this forum thread. Just remember that even we don't believe that there is one correct answer, so please keep that in mind when you're composing your feedback.
Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street is the lead systems designer for World of Warcraft and holds the world record Wild Strike crit... at least until beta starts.
A monsoon is coming. We will soon inundate you with Mists of Pandaria information, starting with the upcoming media event and everything that follows. It's going to be a very exciting time for World of Warcraft, and we are all super impatient for it to happen.
But... we're not quite there yet. I want to make that clear upfront, because this blog isn't directly Mists of Pandaria related. You won't find any announcements here, just a philosophical discussion that you may or may not find interesting. If you're looking for thrilling announcements, you know what I'm going to say: Soon™.
Multiple DPS Roles
I said this blog isn't directly relevant though, because I want to discuss a topic that we did struggle with a lot during Mists development, and indeed through most of World of Warcraft. We have classes with multiple DPS specs, and for mage, warlock, hunter, rogue, warrior and death knight, there isn't even a melee vs. ranged distinction between those DPS specs. The question comes up all the time: "what is the role of these roles?" I don't think there is a right answer here, and we've even changed the design a few times over the last several years. Again, I'm not couching this in terms of an imminent announcement or anything. This is fundamentally one of those designs that could go in a lot of different directions. It's something we discuss a lot, and we figured given the strong opinions of our forum-posting community, many of you probably do as well.
A paladin can choose from among specs that let her be a tank, melee DPS or healer, and can shift around which role she fills in a raid or BG team from week to week. Through the Dual Spec feature, she can even do so within a single evening. If her group doesn't need another healer, or if she needs a break from tanking, she can become a DPS spec fairly easily without having to swap to a different character. A warlock doesn't have that luxury. Yet, the warlock still has three specs. Is the idea, then, that you are supposed to swap from Destruction to Demonology and back depending on the situation? Is the idea that you play Affliction if you like dots and Destruction if you like nukes? Or do you just switch to whatever theoretically does 1% more DPS for the next fight?
Players are sometimes cavalier about throwing around the claim that there's a "lack of design direction" when they want their character buffed. Of course, classes always have a design direction; players just sometimes disagree with it. My point is that just because we debate whether the current design is the best possible one doesn't mean there isn't a design at all. That distinction is important. And of course, we do have a directive for which DPS spec you should play: whichever one you enjoy the most. But that doesn't mean that is the best model or that it can't ever change. There are other models we could try.
Model One – Everyone is equal all the time
If your DPS and utility are the same across specs, then you just play whichever one you prefer. Maybe you like the kit of the Frost mage, or maybe you like the rotation of the Fury warrior, so you play them. As I said above, this has been the model we have used for a while now, with mixed success. The challenge is that "all the time" caveat. We can get all of the DPS specs pretty close together on target dummies, and indeed they actually are very close on target dummies today. Our encounters aren't target dummies though. Having some adds increases the damage of dot-specs. Having lots of adds increases the damage of strong AE specs. Having to move on a fight, and how often and far you have to move, can cause DPS to go up or down differently. Even if DPS is only off by a few percentage points, many players will respec to the one with the highest DPS (even if it's theoretical, even if for them they will do lower personal DPS than if they had stuck with a more familiar spec). A mage who just loves Fire might be frustrated if he ever has to go Arcane, while another player might be happy that he gets to try different specs for different fights.
The class stacking we've seen on the Spine of Deathwing encounter relates to the need for massive burst damage in a specific window, such that the difference between a one minute DPS cooldown and a two minute DPS cooldown matters. Even if we could make sure every spec had the same AE vs. single target damage, do we now need to also ensure every spec can do the same DPS in burst windows of various lengths? Is that even mathematically possible? Or do we just test every spec for every raid encounter of the current tier and tweak class mechanics around for whatever is the current status quo? That implies a high rate of change, and I wonder if we'd lose a little bit of the fun of experimentation and theorycrafting if it was basically accepted that you could take any spec to any fight and do about the same damage. It's more balanced, yes, but does it lack depth or flavor? Is it fun?
Model Two – Everyone has specialties and you match the spec to the situation
Under this model, we would establish spec specialties. For example, Arcane could be good for single-target fights while Fire is great at AE fights. Some of that design already exists in the game, but we try not to overdo it. If you really like playing one mage spec, or really detest constant spec swapping, then this model isn't going to be to your liking. Furthermore, we don't want to overstrain our boss design by having to meet a certain quota of AE vs. single target fights and movement vs. stationary fights and burn phase vs. longevity fights or whatever. It is also really hard to engineer these situations in Arenas or Battlegrounds (for example, both mobility and burst are extremely desirable in PvP), so in those scenarios there still may just be one acceptable spec.
Model Three – You swap specs to gain specific utility
If we used this model, then you might switch out to a different spec to gain a specific spell. Again, we have some of this today. A DK might want Unholy's Anti-Magic Zone for a certain fight. Hunters might go Beastmaster to pick up a missing raid buff. Mages might go Fire for situations where Combustion shines. Druids might go Balance when they need the knockback from Typhoon. A little of this sort of thing goes a long way though. As in Model One, not every player wants to have to swap specs. If you just like Survival, you might resent having to go BM to just to buff someone. If knockbacks are too potent, then it really constrains your raid composition and makes even casual guilds feel like they need to keep a stable of alts or benched players for every fight. If, for example, there wasn't a boss in the current raid tier for which warrior abilities really shine, then warriors start to feel like a third wheel, yet trying to make sure every boss in a tier has a moment for every spec to shine is a pretty daunting task.
The extreme case of this is the "utility" spec who does middling DPS, but brings a lot of synergy and utility that improves all of the other specs. This was the Burning Crusade model, where classes like shaman and Shadow priests were brought to raids just to make the pure classes (and warriors, who were always treated as pure classes back then for some reason) do better DPS. In Lich King, we changed the design to make different raid buffs and abilities more widespread and give groups much more flexibility in their raid (and to some extent dungeon) comps. We heard from Shadow priests that they wanted to do competitive damage, not just be there to make everyone else more awesome. But even today we get a lot of requests to improve the utility of someone's spec so that they are more likely to get invited to a group.
Model Four – There is just a best spec for PvP and PvE
This was the model of vanilla World of Warcraft, and we understand some players wouldn't mind it returning. In this model Arms and Frost and Subtlety (and other specs) were designed to be good for PvP, while others, Fury and Fire and Combat perhaps, were designed to be good for PvE. The PvP specs might have better mobility or survivability or burst damage, while the PvE specs have better sustained damage over the course of a 6-10 minute boss fight. A lot has changed since vanilla. We don't make many raid or dungeon encounters these days where DPS specs can just stand in one place and burn down a boss. Mobility, survivability, and burst damage can all be really useful on particular encounters, sometimes trumping the higher DPS offered by a competing spec. (There's that old adage that dead do zero DPS.) In addition, if there is a PvP spec and a PvE spec, then for pure classes that implies that your third spec lacks much of a role. (The good leveling spec? Is that exciting?) Furthermore, our Mists of Pandaria talent tree design explicitly takes away some of the tools from the traditional PvP specs and makes them available to other specs in the class. If this works out, then you can take your Frost mage raiding, or have an Arcane mage for PvP who uses some of what traditionally were Frost's control and escape tools. That's great if you PvP and love Arcane, or PvE and love Frost. It's less cool if you were the kind of player who was totally comfortable with the simpler (and possibly easier to balance) design of having dedicated PvP vs. PvE specs.
Model Five – Don't have multiple DPS roles
This is the most controversial model and the one that would require the most change, meaning we are almost certainly never going to do it. For sake of completeness though, you can argue that classes never should have been designed with multiple specs that fill the same role. In this model, either Arms or Fury goes away and gets replaced with something. (Archery? Healing?) Warlocks and other pure classes would need a massive redo to end up with say a melee and tanking warlock. Everyone becomes a hybrid. The hardest decisions becomes whether you want to be the ranged or melee DPS version of your class (like druids or shaman). This idea is elegant from a design perspective because it un-asks all of those questions about how much more damage pure classes should do than hybrids to justify their narrower utility. But, perhaps counter-intuitively, elegant designs often aren't the strongest ones (I could write a whole blog on that topic alone). Model Five is the kind of rhetorical question you could go back in time and ask before WoW launched, but not the kind of thing we could change today without taking an enormous amount of effort, to say nothing of the irate players who would feel bamboozled that we were so dramatically changing their character out from under them. I try to never say never, but this model isn't the kind of change you make in a mature game. It's here only for completeness and because I suspect some of you will bring it up.
But Which is the Best Model?
Hell if I know! I fundamentally believe that none of these models is, without question, the obvious right one. All of them have advantages and disadvantages, and there are probably other models you could come up with that are variants on these five, or perhaps even something new. Like I said, we're not announcing a philosophy change yet. If we get enough feedback for one model or another, we might eventually change our minds. Also for this blog we're going to lock the comments and ask that you post your replies in this forum thread. Just remember that even we don't believe that there is one correct answer, so please keep that in mind when you're composing your feedback.
Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street is the lead systems designer for World of Warcraft and holds the world record Wild Strike crit... at least until beta starts.
World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria is the next expansion, raising the level cap to 90, introducing a brand new talent system, and bringing forth the long-lost pandaren race to both Horde and Alliance. Check out the trailer and follow us for all the latest MoP news!
Filed under: Blizzard, News items







Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
barleyhop Feb 8th 2012 9:50PM
I know it will never happen (and I'm fine with it), but I was always a little surprised that warriors didn't have a ranged/soldier spec, i.e, a gun class. They don't have pets like hunters, but they have other things like explosives, perhaps. For their self-healing abilities, maybe they get buffs to first aid where they can apply a bandage instantly. I'm just thinking out loud here.
Now that I think about it, I could see this being an entirely new class if Warcraft ever has a steam punk expansion. (we will have had the zombie expansion and the asian martial arts expansion...why NOT steam punk?)
cosmicape Feb 8th 2012 9:58PM
Yes, steampunk. Do it now.
Homeschool Feb 8th 2012 10:08PM
I'd be pleased if they added a few more concepts, and a ranged Warrior would be a great one, sort of a Commando-style approach of fire from a distance, charge in and do some damage, then drop back. Could make for a unique playstyle where your resource bar is kind of a positional version of the Eclipse bar.
If they want to add more classes or specs, there's still plenty of uncovered ground. The Monk should be evidence enough of that.
TheDarkOne Feb 8th 2012 10:21PM
Titan is steampunk. my brother and me called that as soon as we heard about an unnamed blizz mmo project.
monotype Feb 9th 2012 1:18AM
I would love this, except...what would they use? If warrior steampunk snipers use existing ranged weapons, then they have to deal with agility (unless Blizz makes them use _tanking_ guns, which are already implied to be on the way out, what with non-hunters no longer having ranged slots), which would clash with all their strength plate. If they use mail, then...what's separating them from hunters?
Nick Feb 9th 2012 3:35AM
Conservatively WoW has 9-10 million players? Mmos remain profitable with less than a million (see Rift and Swtor for recent examples, though TOR is now approaching 2mil). Whilst I'm sure activision wobt be happy if numbers decline, they'll never oull the plug on a profitable venture. WoW is here for years to come.
barleyhop Feb 9th 2012 9:01AM
"I would love this, except...what would they use? If warrior steampunk snipers use existing ranged weapons, then they have to deal with agility ... which would clash with all their strength plate. If they use mail, then...what's separating them from hunters?"
@Monotype: Since I'm not a designer, I don't have a great answer here. Maybe ranged warriors could be really "smart" and compete with Holy Pallies for intellect plate? That would certainly help justify the existence of intellect plate. The intellect could augment the warrior's abilities like spell power, and the warrior would still get his bonus for wearing all plate.
In twilight highlands, there's a funny quest chain where you lead a group of gun-toting spec-ops commandos into the hills towards Grim Batol, so it's not like there's no room for this in the lore.
I call dibs on the first Commando warrior named "MstrChief". :)
notsofarfetched Feb 16th 2012 10:47PM
Steampunk warriors would use agility plate, of course.
But really, why do you assume that if they add a new class, they wouldn't add appropriately itemized gear?
paul.morales91 Feb 8th 2012 9:51PM
...Did Ghostcrawler just trademark the word 'soon'?
Al Feb 8th 2012 10:00PM
http://www.wowpedia.org/Soon
Rolly Feb 8th 2012 10:09PM
psst "employment contract" any and all ideas are the property of Blizzard.
Chris W Feb 9th 2012 1:51AM
So basically after 7 years, you say you have a design, but you just don't know what it is.
Get out of the kitchen. Quit fiddling with the soup seasoning. People liked Vanilla and BC design just fine, quit trying to justifying your existence by changing things.
If you are not careful you will have a repeat of the healer mana management thingy and lose another 2 million subs. LEAVE IT ALONE YOU HACK.
Hensonite Feb 9th 2012 2:51AM
Lol, Chris, you sound like a toothless, senile veteran muttering into his bowl of oats!
If WOW was still at vanilla design and gameplay, I'd have quit years ago. I'm glad that the designers are thinking, developing and taking risks, even if not everything turns out exactly as planned.
Chris W Feb 9th 2012 3:05AM
Well you are in for a rude awakening, there are only as many characters seen on US and EU servers now as there were all the way back in 2005.
So I hope you can save this game financially all by yourself.
GEZUS Feb 8th 2012 9:52PM
So we wait
Twill Feb 8th 2012 10:05PM
Interesting. Personally I like swapping specs per-fight for utility options or the Multi-DoT centered fights or single-target type thing. In my perfect world, each fight would require a different number of tanks or healers, so my paladin would do all three roles every raid night. Every spec would also share the same gear set and gear priorities.
That's just me though. My brother refuses to play anything but MM on his hunter.
Now that I'm thinking about it though.... if only "the same gear set and gear priorities" thing came true. Godsend. At least resto and balance druids are relatively the same. We just need to make hit removed and spirit act like hit for all DPS, and like dodge for tanks :P
Nyold Feb 8th 2012 10:05PM
Instead of leveling tree, why not make it a soloing tree? I know... who solos these days? Well, introduce more quests like the ones in ICC dailies or killing that shark in tol barad, that normally you'd need 5 man at level 90 (or 3 man if they're really geared, towards the end of the expansion). Then a hunter or a warlock could use their pet to tank the mob. No, the pet won't be able to tank heroic or normal dungeons, but it's good enough for one quest mob, as long as there's a healer.
oakpack484 Feb 8th 2012 10:31PM
That's unpossible to balance though. THe capability of 5 people in one spec to only work on mobs in the open world without making them able to absolutely ram through every quest, and being useless without being effective to the same degree in PvP, and finding its niche in Dungeons?
Nyold Feb 8th 2012 11:44PM
Ok I didn't mean that the hunter would be able to solo said mob, that would be too OP. I meant that the hunter would be able to serve as a tank in that encounter. So, at the beginning of the expansion, a hunter, a holy priest, and 3 mages would be able to kill that mob, as long as the hunter is specced BM and plays correctly. Everyone would need to blow all cooldowns, which makes this group composition unsuitable for sustained dungeon runs.
Now, for the regular quests that are "kill 10 ghosts", a fury warrior would be able to complete it in 2 minutes, and a prot warrior in 3 minutes (lower dps but higher survivability), but a BM hunter would be able to complete it in 1 minute by way of aoe tanking + dps-ing.
My point is that a spec that's "geared for leveling" doesn't need to stop being useful at level 90. Sure there won't be BM hunters in raids and pvp, but they are still the primary spec for soloing, and my post above was to give examples where that "soloing" spec could give a substantial advantage in running dailies efficiently.
This is unlike the TB quests now where everything is easy and doable by anyone except one quest where it's impossible unless you get a real group. If BM hunters and demo warlocks get a buff to their tanking spells (and frost mages too? or combat rogues?), then having these specs be the dedicated soloing tree is not outrageous. People WILL use these specs and they WILL be played at max level (except not raids and PVP). Remember, they're planning to give away VPs for daily quests too. Also, PVE scenarios, if anything, would only make these soloing specs more popular.
climbinghell29 Feb 9th 2012 12:19AM
I have been able to solo shark in TB since the beginning of expansion pretty much. In pvp gear... They would need to make the quests harder than they have in the past if they were to make a soloing spec or else noone would use... just use their pvp or raiding spec and solo them.