Legendary Weapons: Story chains or class quests?
So last week, the first rogue in my guild got the Fangs of the Father set, and I started working on my set. Right now, I'm about a third of the way to stage two, and then I'll have stage three to contend with. Though there are fewer pieces to collect for the daggers, unlike the items for Dragonwrath, only one rogue can proceed on the chain at a time. That's OK with me -- I don't mind the wait, and I know I have fun stuff to look forward to in between stages. I wasn't expecting a cutscene after starting the chain, but I was absolutely delighted with the fact that I got a bit of story to play through instead of "You killed Illidan and you're very lucky -- have a Warglaive!"
However, there was another, slightly more bothersome difference between Dragonwrath and the Fangs of the Father, one I'm not quite sure how I feel about. When our first raider got his Dragonwrath, everyone rushed to Orgrimmar and watched Kalecgos appear and deliver the staff in front of everyone that happened to be idling in town at the time. It was a moment of sheer excitement, joy, and fun, both for the player who got the staff and the guild who had helped him along the long road to getting it.
We didn't get that with Fangs of the Father.
However, there was another, slightly more bothersome difference between Dragonwrath and the Fangs of the Father, one I'm not quite sure how I feel about. When our first raider got his Dragonwrath, everyone rushed to Orgrimmar and watched Kalecgos appear and deliver the staff in front of everyone that happened to be idling in town at the time. It was a moment of sheer excitement, joy, and fun, both for the player who got the staff and the guild who had helped him along the long road to getting it.
We didn't get that with Fangs of the Father.
Oh, don't get me wrong -- the rogue who completed it apparently got something cool to do (something that I asked her not to tell me about, as I'd like to see the stuff spoiler-free when I'm getting my own stabby-fun toys). But the rest of the guild got absolutely nothing out of it. In fact, they couldn't even see her get them, she was phased out and part of her own solitary quest chain. So there was nothing for the guild or the server to watch, nothing to cheer for, not even a pet to purchase for the rest of the guild. It was just a lone rogue getting a set of super-cool daggers ... and that was that.
On the one hand, I see the design behind that. After all, a young black dragon that just wants to be left alone isn't going to want to advertise to the server or even the guild. It's an agreement between the dragon and the player, and it remains a quiet, hush-hush agreement until the end. But it sort of took some of the joy out of the experience, in a way. I'm happy for my guildmate, and I can't wait to get my own, but I almost feel bad that the guild doesn't get to experience any of this for themselves.
Blessing of Kings had a few points to make about legendary quest lines, particularly how they've progressed over the course of WoW and in Cataclysm, in particular. He asks whether we can have weapons with quests and lore without having them be rare and powerful, and it's a good question -- after all, we used to have them. We had them with Benediction, with Rhok'delar, and most recent with Quel'Delar. So the answer there is a definite yes -- but then, I'm looking at it from a different perspective here.

You see, I was one of the lucky raiders back in vanilla who got to complete the chain for Benediction. I remember doing the quest chain, and it was extremely difficult, but it challenged my skill as a priest and required me to pretty much pull every trick out of the book to complete the chain. I remember our hunters working on their Rhok'delars as well and talking about the technical complexities of the fights that required them to use every trick in their spellbooks, too. Ultimately, both priests and hunters came out of their respective chains with a little more understanding of their class.
I can safely say after having completed the first stretch of the chain for Fangs of the Father that it feels exactly like going after Benediction did. The only difference between then and now? It's the color of the weapon you get at the end. Here's the thing with Benediction and Rhok'delar, however. In vanilla, it was not easy to get these weapons. You could not get them unless you were in a dedicated 40-man raiding guild. There was no pugging MC when these weapons were at the peak of their performance. And as with legendaries, these weapons were replaced soon enough with weapons from another tier of raiding. Oh sure, it took a little longer to replace them, but they were still replaced.
Quel'Delar is the only weapon out there that was easily obtainable and had a lot of lore behind it. All the rest? You had to raid to get them. End of story. Dragonwrath, Fangs of the Father -- heck, even the legendaries of Wrath, Shadowmourne and Val'anyr -- all of these weapons had quest chains associated with them, and lore as well. The difference is that Shadowmourne, Val'anyr, and even Dragonwrath are all legendaries available to multiple classes, while the Fangs of the Father are available to just one.

Shared quests, shared stories, shared histories
This is what bothers me about legendary quests, however -- and it really shouldn't, but it does. If a guild helps a player get a really special item, it only seems natural that they should get to participate in the completion of that item. Dragonwrath's story particularly bothered me because there were huge chunks of lore in that quest, namely the appointment of Kalecgos as the new Aspect of the Blue Dragonflight, that I would never get to see simply because I don't play a class that can get that particular weapon.
But the guild got to participate anyway in that final celebration, and it was a joyous moment for everyone involved. With Fangs of the Father, we were still overjoyed for our guildmate, of course, but the only resolution we as guildies saw for all that time spent killing bosses and letting our rogue gather the pieces for her weapon was the achievement that flashed when she finally got them.
I guess what I'm looking for here is consistency, and this is what I'd like to see: Let those legendaries and quest chains keep coming. But if you're going to make them lore-intensive and give them a storyline, let the guild participate at some point. Let them have a little fun. Let them see a little cutscene. Let them experience some of the joy. After all, they're helping their guildmate get this amazing thing. And for those who don't raid, I would love to see more of the Quel'Delar weapons out there -- weapons with decent stats, but more importantly, weapons with amazing storylines. In the end, it's not the color of the weapon I'm concerned with -- it's the content and letting everyone get a taste of the experience.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
cromahr Feb 10th 2012 9:09AM
I would like to see more stuff like Quel'Delar myself. I know it prolly is quite a workload to create such a storyline and the ingame-events for it, just for a purple sword/mace that is replaced rather soon (they were nice weps for sure), but I did love the storyline and did it several times on different chars, and Id love to see more items like that... "solo/small group items", not legendaries, but items like that one that can be done without much raiding, yet isn't so "imba" that those who go through all the work for the actual legendaries complain =)
Guess Quel'Delar was more of an experiment or a little extra-bonus though, so I dont expect us to get more things like that. The epic cloaks from the Thrall-quests were nice, but those quests never had the epicness and diversity of the QD-chain
cromahr Feb 10th 2012 9:38AM
...aaaand I totally agree that the guild SHOULD get to see more of it. Sure, for the staff, they got the pet, but I think it'd be great if they would get to see more of what is going on, it might add more meaning to the whole thing for the whole guild.
Smashbolt Feb 10th 2012 9:45AM
I *think* part of the epic-ness of the QD quest chain is that you have to be rich or lucky to have a shot. You had to be of the gear level to run the ICC dungeons, lucky enough for the quest item to drop, and lucky enough to win the roll.
Failing that, you could find it on the AH for anywhere from 10k gold when it first came out to 500g just before Cata came out.
So not everyone *could* do it, and unlike the Thrall questline, it wasn't something that automatically got added to the to-do list for new 85s. Unless you were rich, or super lucky, the QD questline was something you only maybe did once or twice, if that.
I actually think that's something I'd like more of: questlines like QD, except maybe replacing the part where you need the random drop to start it with some component that gameplay-wise will require time and effort without specifically being a grind (in the same way that the legendary quests require raid bosses to die, which is something you were already going to be doing).
durandal Feb 10th 2012 10:12AM
I think they should get rid of the legendaries as they are now. Only a very small fraction of the playerbase ever gets the story experience, it causes such a lot balancing problems in pve and pvp, and of course, they're not eligible for xmogging.
Instead, it would be awesome to have a special powerful item for every class, be it a weapon, a trinket, a shirt or whatnot. Obtainable by legendary like class specific questlines which don't necessarily involve raiding, but are available by a mixture of dungeoning, questing, farming. Unlike QD, the starting item should be availabe to all players if they meet certain requirements, e.g. through an exalted rep with some fraction or stuff.
cromahr Feb 10th 2012 10:45AM
Smashbolt, very good point... I actually did buy 2-3 hilts, and had one drop in a PUG that I actually won.
Indeed, being able to do it without the drop would be good, because we are not talking about a totally "imba" item (where people might go "Boo, why can everyone get this?")... the cloaks were a nice upgrade for quite a few people, yet not as awesome as, say, some legendary cloak or whatever would be.
Saeadame Feb 10th 2012 9:26AM
I think the part of Fangs of the Father that the whole guild gets is looking at those badass wings.
Hal Feb 10th 2012 9:27AM
You know, sometimes I wonder about Blizzard's design decisions on stuff like this. This is exactly what people have been asking for after moving on from Vanilla, yet Blizzard has dithered. Class quests are too restrictive, too much work for too few players. Then there's all this effort that goes into the legendaries, not exactly a common set of gear. The most recent item that even comes close was the Quel'delar, but that was placed behind a low drop-rate that ended up only being available to the exceedingly lucky or the moderately wealthy.
Would it really be so terrible for every class to have a special questline that would give you a weapon on par with the first tier of raiding for an expansion? You could even share it amongst classes if you wanted to ala Dragonwrath. Really, why is this such a difficult thing?
Smashbolt Feb 10th 2012 9:59AM
I have to agree. It just blows my mind that class-based content is too niche for the effort when 10% of *characters* are able to see it, while if I had to guess, I'd say each legendary questline is completed by maybe 0.5% of *players*.
Of all of the things I love that Blizzard does, it infuriates me when they're duplicitous like that.
DarkWalker Feb 10th 2012 9:56AM
I sincerely don't like the very concept of the legendary weapons; they are a huge source of guild drama and a force for imbalance in PvP. More so when they have nice quests attached that most players will never get a chance to experience. I would rather prefer Blizzard to spend their resources elsewhere.
I mean, Blizzard refuses to put proper class quests in the game saying that they would be a waste of resources because only 10% of the player base would see each of them, and puts in the game a legendary quest chain that will be seen by less than 1% of the player base? I would rather have class quests everyone could do without a raid than legendary quest lines only a few specific players on the most dedicated guilds will ever see.
Possum Feb 10th 2012 5:56PM
Yes, this.
Evelinda Feb 14th 2012 11:37PM
So much so.
I have 8 level 85 chars. If blizzard put in class quests for each class, i'd do it on every one of them. I'm never going to get to do a legendary quest chain, but i did quel'delar twice, and you'd better believe i'd do a max level class quest that awarded a first tier raid item every opportunity I could.
extomar Feb 10th 2012 10:04AM
The problem I've had with the way a lot of both the new Legendary work is the huge time commitment to raid is not "hard" but just "really really really long". Seriously if you look at the raw math and the amount of stuff required to do is kind of staggering. It often means a raiding guild needs to attack and succeed beating all raid bosses for months straight to get the weapon in a timely manner. That isn't difficult where in many cases especially towards the end is instead boring.
Whether class or legendary quests, the good things they should keep are the individual or special. The stuff in the Nexus is a superb because its doing stuff that one usually doesn't do. Making players do something special during key boss fights maybe a good idea too as long as it doesn't interfere the raid. However making a player attack and kill 30+ bosses over months is not difficult.
Saeadame Feb 10th 2012 10:17AM
I guess it's just really difficult to make things "hard" in terms of personal difficulty, and making things "hard" as in really arduous to complete is one of the alternatives. People have such varying things they find "hard" - as an example, I had a friend who's great at a lot of games, but that Plants vs. Zombies insert in Hillsbrad he just could not do. Say they put something in ala the Zelda chain in Majora's Mask to get the Couples Mask, where you have to do a series of time-essential quests that you have to get right or you have to start over. That might be really easy for some people, particularly if they have a lot of time in WoW, or it could be completely impossible for people who don't have more time than their raiding schedule. Either that or they put in something very personally difficult like... I don't know, have you ever solo'd one of those 5-person quest elites? It's fun to do it yourself, because you actually have to use cooldowns and ingenuity to complete it. Something like that might be cool too, but that can also be a pain for some people depending on their play style. "Long and arduous" is the easiest way to make things "difficult" without excluding people who find certain styles of gameplay (other than raiding, I guess) difficult.
Harvoc Feb 10th 2012 10:05AM
I always hear about Benediction and Rhok'delar in these kinds of posts but I always wonder: weren't there the same types of weapons for other classes? It seems kind of weird for them to be just for hunters and priests.
Saeadame Feb 10th 2012 10:20AM
Mmm... I think all the other classes got class-specific chains earlier in the game? Like, as a druid, I remember doing that thing with the poisons in the Barrens, or those ones where you had to go to moonglade and see some animal spirit to get your next shapeshift form. Or the shaman quests to get all the totems. I don't think priests or hunters had class chains like that early on, so maybe the MC chains were there to make up for that?
VSUReaper Feb 10th 2012 10:22AM
I know warriors, paladins and shamans didnt really have those quests: they had access to Sulfuras (well the warriors did - no one would give a shamman or paladin one).
Druids, mages, and rogues had no quests other than the sunken temple one that was more or less removed some time ago.
Paladins and Locks had their uber hard mount quests.
It was hunters and priests that had the crazy quest. I think it was the first step in creating those weapons for all classes, but then they ran out of time/money/ideas that would challenge the other classes.
Hal Feb 10th 2012 10:50AM
Paladins and Warriors also had access to Quel'serrar, though I imagine far more warriors had that than paladins, since for paladins the effort to obtain a tanking sword was probably not worth it.
Druids would later get the flight form quest.
Shamans could get a purple helm; as it was vanilla, this was horde only.
Warlocks also had quests to learn their "special" summons, the Infernal and the Doomguard.
Mages had quests to learn some of their high level spells; I suppose that's something.
Frank Feb 10th 2012 11:19AM
I remember Druids had a special quest for Bear form. Warlocks and Hunters had quests for pets. The warlock one was much harder and required quite a bit of traveling. If I remember right Paladins had a mount quest and there was another attunement quest at one time. All of those class quests are gone now. I kind of wish they were still around. I know Blizzard is trying to make it easier to level a toon to get to end game content but some of that stuff was just pure fun even if it was time consuming.
eel5pe Feb 10th 2012 10:14AM
One thing that needs to happen: make all the quests in the questline raid quests! One of the lamest parts of Dragonwrath was that you couldn't complete them in a raid group. We were on the last step, just killed Raggy and we all gathered in Stormwind to watch our mage's ascencion. Cue the RP, she gets announced as the champion of the Blue Dragonflight and then... nothing. After a few minutes of confusion we finally figured out from Wowhead that she couldn't be in a raid group. Despite the fact that you have to be in a raid to get all the quest items. *squint*.
And like Anne talks about in the column, anyone should be able to witness the steps of the raid chain. If the quest is meant to be done solo, just stun everyone but the quest holder or hell I don't care, just kill us off. Not just for the lore, but so we can watch and mock our rogue as he tries and fails to assassinate Creed. Hearing his swearing in gchat just isn't the same =)
Spellotape Feb 10th 2012 10:28AM
That's not quite true. The raid had to help acquire fragments from all of the bosses before Baleroc in order to acquire the first stage of the staff - it's similar to the things in raid Shadowmourne recipients had to do (in that they actually had to do something during raid encounters to move on to the next step) but not especially interesting.