What I want to see from Mists of Pandaria PvP

WoW Insider covers the world of player vs. player action in Blood Sport for fans of Battleground, world PvP and Arena play. Steering you to victory is Olivia Grace, who spends most of her time in Azeroth as a restoration shaman turning people into frogs.
Unless you've been living in the little cave on Darkmoon Island for the past few months (and frankly, if you have, well done -- that must be one awesome time machine!), you'll have heard about the impending expansion. I previously posted a short plea for WoW Insider readers to head over to Blizzard MVP Eldacar's thread asking for PvP feedback over on the official forums, and it got me thinking about what I would love to see from PvP in Mists of Pandaria.
Now, I'm excited about the upcoming changes that Blizzard is talking about; you've no doubt seen the information over on Battle.net. Resilience as a baseline stat sounds pretty great to me and will make PvP at lower-level brackets a bit more fun, but I'm curious to see how Blizzard's going to scale it within those brackets. If it scales with level, then a level 64 is going to have an even easier time beating up a level 60 and basically being a one-toon killing machine. And this won't serve to help PvP at lower levels at all, although it will make entry into max-level PvP a lot easier.
And the new Battlegrounds look interesting, the proposed Valley of Power BG especially, because the premise is pretty simple. I don't think overcomplicated Battlegrounds that require complex player-environment interaction are the most fun. I prefer simple maps that place the emphasis on, you know, killing the opposite faction. There's a term for that, I'm sure ... Oh, yeah. PvP!
But I'm thinking big, ladies and gentlemen, really big -- Azerothian-moon-on-a-stick big. Now, a brief disclaimer: This is fantasy from the deranged mind of an Englishwoman and certainly not a scoop of exciting early news. I'm just throwing this out there!
Unless you've been living in the little cave on Darkmoon Island for the past few months (and frankly, if you have, well done -- that must be one awesome time machine!), you'll have heard about the impending expansion. I previously posted a short plea for WoW Insider readers to head over to Blizzard MVP Eldacar's thread asking for PvP feedback over on the official forums, and it got me thinking about what I would love to see from PvP in Mists of Pandaria.
Now, I'm excited about the upcoming changes that Blizzard is talking about; you've no doubt seen the information over on Battle.net. Resilience as a baseline stat sounds pretty great to me and will make PvP at lower-level brackets a bit more fun, but I'm curious to see how Blizzard's going to scale it within those brackets. If it scales with level, then a level 64 is going to have an even easier time beating up a level 60 and basically being a one-toon killing machine. And this won't serve to help PvP at lower levels at all, although it will make entry into max-level PvP a lot easier.
And the new Battlegrounds look interesting, the proposed Valley of Power BG especially, because the premise is pretty simple. I don't think overcomplicated Battlegrounds that require complex player-environment interaction are the most fun. I prefer simple maps that place the emphasis on, you know, killing the opposite faction. There's a term for that, I'm sure ... Oh, yeah. PvP!
But I'm thinking big, ladies and gentlemen, really big -- Azerothian-moon-on-a-stick big. Now, a brief disclaimer: This is fantasy from the deranged mind of an Englishwoman and certainly not a scoop of exciting early news. I'm just throwing this out there!
So, what do I want to see?
Leveling via PvP
This is an area where I'd love to see huge changes. Bashiok said the following in November of 2011 regarding the patch 4.3 changes to conquest points:
Our intent is to start acting even more on our Mists of Pandaria philosophies of encouraging players to approach the content they want to, how they want to, and be able to work toward meaningful player progression. Arenas and rated battlegrounds will still earn Conquest faster, but with this change you can now work your way up by running normal BGs, if you so choose.
This notion of approaching the content how you want to is something I'd really like to see taken up in a big way as far as PvP goes. I want to see leveling via PvP taken from being something that only dedicated, incredibly patient and marginally insane people do to being something that's on a par with questing and even -- although this is possibly a little too crazy -- the Dungeon Finder.
I was intending to write a guide to PvP leveling, but while carrying out the research, it occurred to me not only how hard it is to level via PvP but how hard it is to level predictably. This is something I'd love to see changed.
Are you experienced?
For a start, I want more transparency about XP gains from Battlegrounds. It seems from testing that a Battleground loss or draw will award around 5% XP -- that is to say, if you go in with around 10% of your total XP requirement to level up, you'll come out with around 15%. Some Battlegrounds will award you more, some less, but 5% seems a reasonable mean. This is very low for something that could take up 30 minutes of your time. So, let's up the XP gain from longer games and issue a base block of XP to the first seven wins per week -- just like dungeons do.
Battleground wins are a whole different matter. A fast win in a small battleground like Warsong Gulch will award around the 17% mark, apparently depending on whether you're rested, whether it's your first win that day, and how long that win took you. You also get XP from capturing flags, being in the vicinity of a captured flag, and so on. A win in the dreaded Alterac Valley could award up to 26% -- this is the highest XP gain I've ever received from a Battleground, and I was there for all the deaths of all the opposite faction's relevant people and various captures in what was a very drawn-out match lasting almost to the timer. I was a level 62 warlock with rested XP in a level 25 guild and wearing full heirlooms. I'm not sure how much of this information is relevant, but I suspect from research that level and rested XP are the big factors.
Quest request
What else? Well, I want Battleground quests, like you see in dungeons. And I don't want to have to pick flowers or collect gnoll hearts or something; I want to have to (honorably) kill five priests or five draenei or something along those lines. And I want them repeated by Battleground bracket. I want the quest givers in the holding pen at the start of the Battleground, just like in dungeons. I don't want short-distance FedEx quests that require me to run around the village near my faction base (like in Alterac Valley) when I could be making with the stabby. I want a bit more time added after the Battleground ends to hand those quests in.
I want those quests to award not only XP on par with dungeon quests, but I want resilience gear that's level-appropriate and upgrades by bracket. I also want resilience gear to be more easily obtained at lower levels, although I think the resilience changes I mention above may help with this if they're done thoughtfully. I want leveling quests to pop PvP ones into the mix somewhere, ones that send you to Battlegrounds just like some send you to dungeons now. I'm aware of a few quests that do this already, such as those in Hellfire Peninsula, but in all honesty, on my main server there's precious little PvP taking place in Outland. Send levelling characters into Battlegrounds with orders to take out a tauren ... or a night elf. They're so smug with those backflips.Once you're at the top
So, I've talked a lot about PvP leveling and my thoughts on that. What about PvP at max level? I have actually enjoyed PvP this season a great deal, with some minor exceptions, so my criticisms are fairly limited. However, I do still have some.
In random Battlegrounds, I'd love to see some kind of matchmaking happening. Gear disparity in groups can make for very frustrating games if your faction happens by chance to be the one in all crafted blue gear while the opposite faction is all in full Cataclysmic purples. I'd also like to see something done to mitigate the possibility of premade groups taking on completely random groups -- perhaps something like Luck of the Draw.
Also, some kind of role balancing. If players intending to heal could queue as healers, a system could be put in place to try and ensure that there are even numbers of both on each side. I wouldn't, however, support a Dungeon-Finder-esque requirement for healers/DPS, as that would no doubt lengthen queue times for DPS. And if we're talking real moon-on-a-stick territory, I'd love it to be set up so that one team wasn't nine rogues and one priest (or, at level 19, eight hunters, a rogue, and one confused shaman!). Maybe some kind of work could be done towards balancing DPS and health across classes at lower levels, too.
Of course, anything that is viable to beat the bots would also be fantastic.
Into the Arena
I have been having a big internal debate about this, so I'm throwing it out there to the readership to see what you think. If you're playing 2v2, and team A has killed one member of team B but can't take down the second player, and the match times out, should team A win? Or should it remain a draw, as it is now? I can see that winning a 2v2 should be done by killing both of the opposing team's players, but on the other hand, surely being one player down should result in a loss? What do you think?
I agree with Eldacar when he says that CC has got a bit out of control, especially with burst damage having made quite the resurgence toward the end of the expansion. It is hugely frustrating being chain CCed in the open, and of course, it is avoidable, but spammable CC like Polymorph or Cyclone is incredibly frustrating sometimes (especially Cyclone, as it is not dispellable).
And speaking of burst damage, this was a lot better this expansion than last, bar a few little glitches, but I still don't think it's OK that certain classes can burst targets down in a few globals. That is a return to the latter days of the last expansion, and not a welcome one! Resilience maybe needs to scale with burst a bit better. And perhaps certain PvE items' effects should be removed from PvP, like the Dragonwrath, Tarecgosa's Rest proc.
So that's my PvP wish list so far. I'd love to hear what you think, what you'd add and what you might take away.
Filed under: PvP, Blood Sport (Arena PvP)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
razion Feb 13th 2012 8:24PM
Something I'd also like to see is Arenas for all level brackets, and being able to level while doing so. Then, take it a step further and let people get random members for an unrated Arena match for xp/honor (and a smaller conquest reward, perhaps). While I don't expect things to be balanced for all of those early brackets for Arena, it could really help get people adjusted to PvP in Arenas if they're able to level while doing it, and doing so with other people. Nothing helps PvP like experience. Besides, with the new Battletag feature coming out, it'll make finding potential partners for future Arenas/BGs that much easier.
Course, it is just a pipe dream.
Twill Feb 14th 2012 12:20AM
Just to expand on the leveling in PvP:
Increase the health-to-damage ratio.
EVERY DPS spec is able to do exceptionally well when not being trained in low level PvP. Trust me, I've literally done all of them at level 10 in full heirlooms. No class is OP or underpowered. (Hunters commonly excel though because they can maintain auto attack DPS while moving, plus dumping focus then kiting while it regens.)
If health was doubled (and melee had a distance closing ability at 10 that's usable IN COMBAT), then low level PvP would be completely balanced.
As for leveling speed? It's fine. I do BGs because they're fun. When I level I have to worry about gear again which means I have to take a break from PvP
(Oh.. maybe add more low level PvP honor gear? like level 24 versions? and in slots without heirlooms?)
So, lazy blizzard, want a simple guide to fixing low level PvP forever?
-Warriors: Charge in combat at 10. Shield Wall at 10.
-Hunters: Add Deterrence at 10.
-Druids: Feral Charge at 10 or sprint (which they may have, I don't remember). Regrowth at 10.
-Paladins: Judge-at-a-distance-and-get-a-mini-sprint at 10. Flash of Light at 10.
-Warlocks: Increase Drain Life's effectiveness by two, or give the Void Walker shield at 10.
-Monks: Distance closer at 10, fast heal at 10.
-Priests: They're fine. Stronger Bubbles? Make sure they have flash heal at 10.
-Rogues: Fine. Shadowstep is great. Vanish at 10 would be epic.
-Mages: Fine. Mage Shield a bit stronger and at 10 would be nice. Arcane does sick dmg.
-DK: Coolbeans.
-Shaman: Healing Surge at 10. Frost Shock 10. Moving for lightning bolt would help a lot, but glyphs are fairly early.
TL;DR - some sort of gap closer/maker for each class, hybrid healers need a fast heal, boost health, a damage taken reducing CD or bubble helps a LOT. Perfect Balance.
Noyou Feb 14th 2012 3:40AM
@Twill
No. Part of the whole deal is not to load up newer players with everything in their tool kit at once. I know you are just asking for a gap closer, but then I am sure everyone would like something else. As it is, they really borked the mage leveling. We get so much early on now (save for Blizzard or any decent armor) that we go level 58-68 without learning much (and like 6 levels without learning any spells except a teleport). It may not be a popular decision, but I don't PvP until 14. It is unfair and it is unbalanced. Do you want them balancing the game out at lvl 10 or max level? We can't have it both ways. We just can't. Frankly, I don't think they should waste the time on balancing the game at the lowest end of the spectrum either.
Khristalyn Feb 14th 2012 7:22AM
@Twill
Yes Yes and Yes... I completely agree. I'm sorry but this change needs to happen I was in bgs racking my brains out trying to figure out how to overcome such things as concussive shot, and mind flay at low level as melee... its near impossible unless you over stack stamina ikts rediculious... as a druid I can probably get away with casting entangling roots but you have to cast it... I tried rejuvenate, not a fast enough regen, regrowth I have to cast it... and by the time I heal I might as well not have cause an equal amount of damage has been done. Something definately needs to be done and I think Twill has the right idea.
Twill Feb 14th 2012 10:04AM
"We can't have it both ways."
I know that If I was hired by Blizzard, I could figure it out. Yea, you heard me. The thing is, Blizzard DOESN'T spend resources to worry about low levels. If they did, it's totally easily do-able. The thing is, they spend their time elsewhere (MoP).
And if you really think that every class having three abilities (a gap closer/maker, a damage reduction/avoidance/shield abiltity, and a fast heal for hybrids) by 10 is "bringing too much to the class too early," then may I ask you why it's okay for some classes and not others? I just want to make it the same with all of them. Look at my Monk example. You'll notice, the Monk doesn't exist yet. The post still includes them, because what I'm saying LITERALLY would solve the problems of lowbie PvP.
And you don't start till 14 -- okay, who cares? I start at 10, you start at 14, my brother is a dog. Random facts!
adamjgp Feb 14th 2012 11:02AM
i really don't think they should be focused on the low level PvP at all. Clearly, the focus needs to be on end game. I understand that you are worried about low level PvP balance, but then again Blizzard devs (who are not lazy) don't design this game to suit your every whim and desire. Your opinion pales in contrast to the majority opinion of the 10m+ population of WoW.
They can make some of the people happy all of the time, or all of the people happy some of the time. I would greatly prefer that they cater to the masses and not the minority here.
Michael Feb 14th 2012 7:12PM
If you want low level pvp balance, get rid of BOAs. It's very discouraging to be in a BG and most of the opposition can two shot you because they're in heirloom gear. Getting rolled over like you're not there, then getting camped in your graveyard so you can't even get out of it makes it very not fun.
Every BG I've run today has been the same. All lvl 10-19 stuff. I saw some advice on doing BGs a lot before you get to lvl 85, but if you can't get heirlooms and most of your opponents have them it just isn't enjoyable.
My .02 cents and based on a huge frustration level at the moment.
Kendro Feb 13th 2012 8:24PM
Cyclone is actually one of the most harmless CC's imo.
Yes you can't dispell it, but out of all of the CC's possible I like being hit with that one the most. FIrst off, it has the shortest duration per pop, and overall. That gives two things, first off it means I can get out of it quicker, second it means less free gcd's for the enemy druid. Second: I'm immune during it, apart from polymorph and sap, every other CC in game turns you into a punching bag. So yes, you can't dispell cyclone, but it seems silly for someone to still be griping about it 4 years after its introduction. Someone whining about cyclone is really the same as someone whining about prep.
This is coming from a pvp lock with a shammy partner.
GhostWhoWalks Feb 13th 2012 10:00PM
It's because, if you're a healer in Warsong Gulch or Twin Peaks, an enemy Druid can keep you locked out for long periods of time while his friends turn your FC into mush.
Sayis Feb 13th 2012 11:51PM
Go play some higher-rated arena matches and tell me if you feel the same way. Cyclone is an amazing CC; five seconds where you can't do anything, whatsoever, to help your team. Sure, you can't be hurt or CC'd further, but does that matter? If you're being Cycloned, it's not because you're being focused, it's because you could help a partner or disrupt the enemy team's flow. Being forced to wait five, painstaking seconds before you're probably CC'd again (and yes, it happens often) is awful. For an enemy team, it's a great opportunity to land a kill. You shouldn't pop out of it because odds are, there's an even worse CC coming at you (Blind, i'm looking at you), so you're typically forced to wait it out. Even if you do pop, within the next thirty seconds you'll probably be wrapped up in that tornado again. The amount of pressure Cyclone puts out is immense, which, for me personally, places it on my "most reviled" list of CCs.
From a 2.1k experienced Resto Shaman's perspective
clundgren Feb 14th 2012 12:05AM
I think you're crazy, Kendro. For every other CC, I typically have a few options. With Cyclone I'm just out of play completely unless my trinket is up, and then I'll just be cycloned again as soon as I use it. It's a devastating cc.
DarkWalker Feb 14th 2012 7:41AM
This is where I love one of TOR's ideas, that CC immunity bar of theirs. In a nutshell, Bioware made a single diminishing returns affect every CC in the game, and added a graphical representation of how much diminishing returns on CC has stacked.
What this means is that CC-locking a player is impossible, because before long he becomes almost immune to CC and new attempts at CC will only serve to recharge his immunity bar. Also, the player can make informed decisions on whether or not to use CC-breaking skills based on how immune he is to CC.
littlelingos Feb 13th 2012 8:45PM
PvP at low levels can be terrible when your facing twinks so a mechanic like bolster from swtor would be awesome so you dont get one shot by avenging shield at low levels, just to make the game more equal.
JattTheRogue Feb 13th 2012 11:50PM
This. Giving everyone a stat boost to the highest level of the bracket would be awesome (i.e. - a level 32 player would get his stats buffed to the equivalent of level 34, etc.). They could just have a baseline level of stats for what someone's stats in blues at the bracket's highest level would be. It would go a long way toward mitigating heirlooms' overpowered-ness.
Twill Feb 14th 2012 12:06AM
It wouldn't affect heirlooms at all. What you said would balance 20 and 24 in the same level-to-ilevel ratio, which is fine.
If people work for gear, they should see fruition from their labors. Heirlooms are not hard to get. If you think they make a huge difference, go get them.
adamjgp Feb 14th 2012 11:07AM
@Twill
Just go out and get heirlooms? Tell that to the newbie who just started their toon. Or even tell it to the experienced player who just started a new account. I get that your view of WoW is squarely centered on your own experiences, but you really should try to have an objective opinion about these things so that you might catch a glimpse of what other players go through.
Glov Feb 14th 2012 11:15AM
Try getting heirlooms whithout a 85 character and tell us how easy it was.
Pyromelter Feb 13th 2012 8:49PM
I share your opinion on bg's... simple tends to be better.
As far as gear/resil, I want 40% base resilience for all players, and absolutely zero resil on gear, except maybe set bonuses for pvp gear, and trinkets. If they did this, they could then merge valor/conquest and make it one cap, so you'd have to choose whether to buy pvp or pve gear, but you'd be wearing acceptable gear for either situation no matter which tier you chose.
aspectofthedork Feb 13th 2012 11:28PM
I'd love to have just one set for both PVP and PVE honestly, rather than a set that was better for one than the other. I'm semi casual, but I still find time to raid. I can't find time to raid AND pvp though, and I don't pvp at all because I can't gear up fast enough to be competitive.
Noyou Feb 14th 2012 3:39AM
I agree. Or remove it entirely from the game. I don't think they will ever make us want or have to get less gear. We would then have less incentive to run things over again. Right now, as much as I disagree with it, the loot wheel keeps us going.