Encrypted Text: No'Kaled makes its claim for the throne

If you're frequenting any of the rogue community sites, you've seen the question: Should I be using No'Kaled? While assassination and subtlety rogues can blindly equip the legendary quest daggers at each stage, combat rogues have to make a decision. As I've said for years, rogues spec for their weapons. You need to round up all of your available weapons, and then mix and match to find the right combination.
There are three different levels of No'Kaled, and there are also three stages of daggers we receive from Wrathion. Between all of these weapons, there are nine different possible combinations that you could have today. Your personal arsenal of weapons is dependent on your Elementium Gem Cluster acquisition rate and your luck with Madness of Deathwing drops, but chances are that you have at least one version of both the quest daggers and No'Kaled.
No'Kaled: Thunderfury 2.0
If you look back to the glory days of Thunderfury, it's easy to see why the first legendary that rogues had access to was so powerful. The lighting damage proc was able to bypass a boss' tough armor, just like a caster's spells. When combined with the fast attack rate of a rogue with Slice and Dice, the result was immensely potent. In Wrath, rogues again excelled by ignoring their target's armor via armor penetration rating. Anything that lets us circumvent our target's armor is a good thing.
No'Kaled's success is due to its powerful, armor-bypassing proc. Combat rogues have a natural love of haste rating, and with our high levels of hit and expertise, No'Kaled is dealing crazy amounts of elemental damage. On average, No'Kaled's proc contributes between 3% to 5% of a rogue's damage on any given encounter, which is a serious DPS boost. In addition to the proc chance, No'Kaled's slow weapon speed is also the better weapon for combat's attacks, in spite of the 45% bonus to Sinister Strike and Revealing Strike damage on the quest daggers. Finally, because No'Kaled drops from Deathwing himself, it's a higher ilevel than most other weapons, which leans the base stats in its favor.
Lackluster quest daggers
Due to the incredibly slow stacking speed of the Jaws of Retribution and Maw of Oblivion set bonuses, they're not immune to scrutiny. While I would have loved for the quest daggers to have been the obvious choice for every rogue, the fact is that they're not ideal for combat. Daggers haven't been combat's favored weapon for years, and I don't see us returning back to a combat Backstab build any time soon. In addition, each tier of quest daggers is only nine to 10 ilevels higher than the previous tier, while No'Kaled improves 13 ilevels with each iteration.
Let me note that even as we're talking about the differences between No'Kaled and the quest dagger set, you'll still want to use the offhand quest dagger at all times. The only question is whether or not you want to switch out your main-hand weapon to improve your DPS.
No'Kaled wins, but only slightly
While I'm sure you've seen the charts and flowsheets used to determine what weapons you should be using, but I have my own system. Imagine that the starter quest daggers, the Jaws of Retribution, are the Raid Finder version of the legendary daggers. When comparing the Jaws against the Raid Finder No'Kaled, the axe wins. Now, for the next difficulty level, the Maw of Oblivion is matched up against the normal flavor of No'Kaled, and again, No'Kaled's proc wins, but only slightly. Finally, when we look to the heroic difficulty level, heroic No'Kaled and the Fangs of the Father are vying for the top spot. While the verdict on that battle is still out, the fact that any weapon is competing with our legendary daggers is concerning.
Right now, most raiding rogues have acquired the Maw of Oblivion daggers. If you don't have the normal version of No'Kaled, then you're fine, as the Raid Finder No'Kaled can't touch The Sleeper. If you do have the normal version of No'Kaled, then you might pick up a slight DPS increase by switching. For myself, it's somewhere in the realm of 10 to 20 DPS for swapping weapons, and that's honestly not enough DPS to compel me to swap. In addition, I know that I'll be picking up my legendary daggers in just a few short weeks, and so I don't have to worry about anything until I've downed heroic Madness of Deathwing.
There's nothing wrong with switching from the Maw of Oblivion daggers to the regular version of No'Kaled, but the difference in DPS is so small that I wouldn't call it a mandatory move. That's not the case for the first tier of weapons, though. If you're someone who doesn't get to raid a lot, and you only have the Jaws of Retribution and the Raid Finder No'Kaled, then it's true that No'Kaled will help you deal more damage. If you don't have any plans to pick up the Maw of Oblivion daggers in the near future, consider swapping to your No'Kaled.
If you're stuck with the Jaws of Retribution right now and you get your hands on a normal No'Kaled, then you need to swap to the axe immediately. This is the only situation where I see the decision being really obvious. You're incredibly unlikely to pick up a heroic No'Kaled before you acquire your legendary daggers, and otherwise No'Kaled's margin of victory is incredibly slim.
From a design point of view, I hate that there are weapons that are even in the same ballpark as the legendary daggers. The fact that the Fangs of the Father aren't necessarily the best weapons is especially painful when we consider that this is the last tier of the expansion, which is the only time that these daggers will even be relevant.
Filed under: Rogue, (Rogue) Encrypted Text






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Revynn Feb 15th 2012 12:09PM
This reminds me of a certain "Rogue Bow" from a certain BC raid . . .
jordan Feb 15th 2012 12:19PM
I seem to remember the dagger having a bonus to main gauche on the ptr. Bringing that back would be a nice step to solidify the dagger as the bis over No'kalad.
twbrienn Feb 15th 2012 2:18PM
That would basically cover the gap I believe. Allow the 45% damage bonus to apply to MG and KS and we're good. maybe crank the bonus up to the point that is makes the daggers the clear choice. Problem solved.
sveltekumquat Feb 15th 2012 3:51PM
@twbrienn: Except Combat is among the top DPS specs in Dragon Soul right now, period. If you buff the legendaries so they're even more awesome for Combat specifically, you risk launching the spec into the stratosphere. Considering the nerf Fire mages just got to prevent exactly the same thing from happening, I'd be surprised if this sort of change were implemented.
Hail Feb 16th 2012 11:36AM
The faster speed gives you more mastery procs anyway, so buffing the mastery damage by that amount gave way too much damage. Still I wish the daggers were a bit more powerful.
Boom Feb 15th 2012 12:25PM
While my guild has yet to see a No'Kaled drop after 5 or 6 weeks of madness kills, I was never able to get my dps on Ultra higher than similarly or undergeared rogues wielding it while I had stage 2 daggers. On almost every parse I have looked at No'Kaled beats out stage 2 by 2k+ dps for that fight. Do you think that is just down to individual skill? I know you say from experience that the difference is minimal, but that weapon is the only reason I can find that I can't match other rogues dps on ultra.
marderer Feb 15th 2012 12:36PM
I have to agree with OP. It is very sad that legendary daggers are not BiS items without any doubt about it. This is a HUGE omission on Blizzard's part. Maybe they can still fix it? Here's hoping they read and indeed respect their community's wishes as they often claim.
Chase Christian Feb 15th 2012 12:39PM
Part of the problem is that the daggers ARE still BIS for both assassination and subtlety rogues, which makes the issue not as clear-cut.
SaintStryfe Feb 15th 2012 1:17PM
Well then there's two options: either buff the daggers further, making an all ready powerful item more powerful, or nerf No'Kaled, which would be death to ENH shaman.
mikebulko Feb 15th 2012 3:46PM
The daggers can possibly be further buffed without affecting Mut/Sub rogues. The MH already has the buff to SS/RS to... ahem... make it comparable to a 2.6 speed weapon. However it's still lacking because of the dagger's low top-end for Main Gauche and Killing Spree.
To make it a strictly Combat-only buff, Eviscerate would have to be left off. I'm no mathmagician, so I don't know if MG/KS buffs would be enough to tighten the gap, but it would be better than nothing.
DragonFireKai Feb 15th 2012 3:48PM
Or you could just accept the fact that the MH dagger isn't BiS for a spec that isn't designed to use MH daggers. When Assassination Rogues complained that Thunderfury and the Warglaives weren't BiS for them, the answer that they were given was "Spec Combat"
Now the shoe's on the other foot.
Titusx Feb 15th 2012 12:45PM
On behalf of EVERY SINGLE ENHANCEMENT SHAMAN in the game... I hate you. You sneaky bastards have more weapon choices than you can even count and you go for the one true choice enh shamans get?
There are what? 3 daggers, a mace, 2 swords and a set of freaking LEGENDARY daggers and you must have our one axe? GTFO.
jordan Feb 15th 2012 12:55PM
Enh can use the same weapon type in the OH as the MH, unlike rogues. Plus enh is just a spec compared to rogues being an entire class. Dragon soul is more than accommodating to the enhance spec with loot.
SaintStryfe Feb 15th 2012 1:24PM
Jordan, Combat is just one spec as well. Assassination and Sub rogues won't want this at all. THey get bennies from using daggers. This is unfair to ENH shaman. ENH shamans have only two choices, no legendary upgrade path, ect.
And you're dead wrong with ENH loot: We only have one trinket option (Vial of Shadows, the other AGL trinket is an extremely sub-par Haste trinket, we get no value from Haste at all, our second BIS is still from heroic Rags), the valor cloak is worst in slot (our BIS is still from Lord Ryolith in Firelands, hell the regular 378 version still outranks the 397 valor cloak), and there's no upgrade path for half our BIS Valor gear. We got royally screwed for a lot of this patch's gear.
jordan Feb 15th 2012 1:35PM
What are you talking about? There are 3 trinkets in the instance, you're forgetting Wrath of unchaining. Only Starcaller compass has haste. At the valor level there's a trinket that can be reforged.The cloak thing goes for every agi dps.
alandovos Feb 15th 2012 1:46PM
Jordan must mean the 5% drop chance mace from Ultraxion, which is the only other slow agi weapon that Enhancment Shaman can use in the whole raid. I've yet to see one of those on ANY of my 4 toons that regularly run DS.
Nathanyel Feb 15th 2012 1:52PM
I think the cloak issue applies to all Agi users :P (Hello from the furry side!)
jordan Feb 15th 2012 3:56PM
The mace has the same drop rate as the axe. RNG is RNG.
Angus Feb 15th 2012 5:23PM
I'm still pissed at Blizzard for making Rogues get axes instead of giving shaman swords.
Every 2 weeks I see a dagger drop from a boss, since they drop from at least 2 per tier. I have seen an axe drop twice in the last 2 tiers and none in T11.
Mummrah Feb 15th 2012 7:02PM
@ jordan
You can't reforge a proc