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by Anne Stickney 
Feb 15th 2012 at 1:00PM
My interactions with the Raid Finder have been limited, for the most part. I'm in a raiding guild, and we were told when the Raid Finder came out that we would do guild runs to start out with. This was to make sure that all drops benefited everyone in the guild, and honestly, it was a smart idea. Players got their set bonuses with relative speed, and we completed the encounters with no difficulty at all just due to the fact that they were relatively easy in comparison to the normal-mode raiding we were doing.
However, after we began melting more gear than we were keeping and started working on heroics in earnest, our raid leader let us know that if we really needed anything else from the Raid Finder, we'd have to go run it on our own. So it was with a fair amount of confidence that I queued up for Dragon Soul, looking for a trinket that was so far eluding my rogue in normal mode content. No big deal, right? Easy enough, and by now plenty of people ought to be familiar with the content. Well ... not so much.
However, after we began melting more gear than we were keeping and started working on heroics in earnest, our raid leader let us know that if we really needed anything else from the Raid Finder, we'd have to go run it on our own. So it was with a fair amount of confidence that I queued up for Dragon Soul, looking for a trinket that was so far eluding my rogue in normal mode content. No big deal, right? Easy enough, and by now plenty of people ought to be familiar with the content. Well ... not so much.
Big Bear Butt wrote an eloquent post explaining the phenomenon that I observed after stepping into my first non-guild Raid Finder group. You see, one generally expects that if a person doesn't need a piece of loot, they will pass on said loot and let someone that needs it have it for an upgrade. It's the nice and polite thing to do, right? Well, instead, a lot of Raid Finder players are simply rolling need on every piece of gear they can get their hands on, regardless of whether or not it's an upgrade. They are rolling need on gear they already have equipped. Why?
Because in their infinite wisdom, these players have decided to try and land these loot pieces as bartering chips in a game of You Got the Loot I Want, I Have the Loot You Need -- Let's Trade. So instead of a normal raid, where the fights are the most difficult part of the encounter, looting is now a complex series of "I want that trinket. Do you want this tier? I'll trade this tier for that trinket." But the trinket winner doesn't need the tier, however, the person who won a weapon that the trinket winner needs does need tier, so the trinket winner trades for tier and then trades that tier to the weapon winner so the weapon winner has tier, the trinket winner has weapon, and tier winner has trinket.
And if you managed to make it through that last sentence without having your eyes slowly cross in confusion, bless you. But Big Bear Butt does bring up the conundrum and wonders if this is going to be the face of the Raid Finder from now on. He also wonders what can be done about it -- and I don't think I have an answer for that question. Sure, Blizzard could place more limitations on loot, but that still wouldn't stop people from rolling on what they've already got.
One solution suggested is for the loot system to simply ignore players who have obviously already won loot that drops. So if you picked up the unique-equipped Wrath of Unchaining and happen to be wearing it, the option to roll on it will not pop up for you. But then people might just hide their gear in their bags and equip suboptimal gear. So what then? Do you have the loot system check the player's inventory, including anything they may have in their bank? Do you have the loot system create a database, a list of everything a player has won, and exclude them from rolling on an item that is already on that list?
There's a far easier solution, and sadly, I don't think it's going to ever catch on. It's called Don't Roll Need on Items You Don't Need. It's the solution where people treat people as human beings, rather than objects standing between them and profit. It's the solution of personal accountability, in which a player asks themselves if it's right to do this -- and the answer is automatically no, not "Well, everyone else is doing it, so I'm going to do it too."
Brace yourselves for what could be some of most exciting updates to the game recently with patch 4.3. Review the official patch notes, and then dig into what's ahead: new item storage options, cross-realm raiding, cosmetic armor skinning and your chance to battle the mighty Deathwing -- from astride his back!
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 6)
ejunk Feb 15th 2012 1:25PM
it's up to the community to enforce loot etiquette - period. I probably come across like a crusty old grandpa, but I admonish guild members when large groups of us do LFR for suggesting that everyone need on loot that one of us needs in order to trade it among ourselves. Suck it up and live with the RNG, people - it's the polite thing to do.
AMAITA Feb 15th 2012 1:26PM
Do away with trading in RF
Matt Feb 15th 2012 1:26PM
Blizzard ALREADY has a system where they can check your Bank, Bags, and Equipped items.
If there is an item that is UNIQUE (not unique-equipped), then you cannot.. no matter what you do, get another copy of the item, so it is obvious that there is already a system in place that can check gear, bags, and bank (and possibly void storage) for an item.
So the solution is simple: Just hook that system into the Roll Bonus system. If you already have the item, or something that comes from the item (Tier gear), then you can still roll need, but you won't get the roll bonus.
Thus, those that actually NEED the gear get priority, but those that want another copy of an item (dual wield, different specs, etc), still get priority over those that roll greed just to vendor the token (which is HORRIBLY stupid...). There should also be 0 vendor prices on RF gear to prevent people from needing gear just to get the 20g... I've seen that as well. I lost a Kiril to a hunter that already had one. Said he was going to vendor it... made me so mad I couldn't see straight.
Caz Feb 15th 2012 1:28PM
I don't roll on items I don't need.
I'm unsure what the best solution is for LFR loot distribution, but I'm also unsure if a solution is required. That said, I am glad they fixed the issue that let one person win two or more of the same drop from the same boss. Before the fix, I was in a run where three of the spellcaster staves dropped from Madness, and the *same guy* won all three of them and left group.
Actually, the best solution just may be to remove the restriction on receiving loot from each boss more than once per week. If you could queue for a fresh run daily and roll for every boss, you've have a greater chance of getting what you're looking for. Of course, this makes LFR raids basically 25-man heroic dungeons, but isn't that what LFR Dragon Soul already is, really?
86irocz28 Feb 15th 2012 1:32PM
i think the LFR was a mistake from the get-go...it should be be for old content only used to get transmog gear and drops for old legendary quests maybe achievements to add fun back in the game.....LFR being used for current content encourages the ninga and mob mentality and where is the fun in that ....the gear upgrades should be on the VP vendors like always..
Sprawl Feb 15th 2012 1:32PM
They already put class restrictions on loot, now they just need to change Unique-Equipped to Unique. It would only really effect non-rogue dual-wield classes, and only on Madness weapon drops. But even that would only prevent people winning offhands over those who are stuck with 372 or less mainhands.
Amanda A. Feb 15th 2012 2:33PM
They could do Unique (2) on the one hand weapons, like they do with jewelers' gems. That way DW classes could get their weapons.
DarkWalker Feb 15th 2012 1:34PM
The easiest way for Blizzard to fix this: change looting in LFR to be like with seasonal bosses. In other words, individual loot bags.
No loot rolls. No need to stop and resolve loot issues. No loot drama, as a result. A fair chance for everyone involved.
Plus, the (currently allowed) LFR loot exploit plenty of hardcore guilds were doing - stuff a raid with a lot of alts and a few mains, direct all loot to the few mains, rinse and repeat until every main character is brimming with LFR loot - wouldn't be possible.
DarkWalker Feb 15th 2012 1:36PM
BTW, besides WoW's seasonal boss loot, Diablo 3 is also doing something quite similar with loot. The concept of individual loot for highly desirable items is not foreign for Blizzard.
kmarcy1729 Feb 15th 2012 1:58PM
^^
THIS!
Individual lot bags. Rolling on the loot that drops is so 7 years ago :P
Thraine Feb 15th 2012 1:39PM
"It's called Don't Roll Need on Items You Don't Need."
Sadly, given the state of the community in the game this is unlikely. If you roll need the item should become soulbound similar to BOEs. Allow a 5-10 minute window to trade to accomodate those who accidentally needed an item they already had.
Blizzard has in the past intellectually sided with the polite/honorable group on this.
"we don’t think players should be able to claim certain loot drops based on their class if their only intent is to sell the item. If you want to use the item yourself, awesome, go ahead and roll Need on it..."
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2353015977
jasonfelliott Feb 15th 2012 1:40PM
This phenomenon is an example of the corrupting influence of modern-day capitalism, and it corrupts a game as well as it corrupts a society.
Kelly Feb 15th 2012 1:46PM
This is a video game. Please take your psuedo-political liberal speech elsewhere
Shade Feb 15th 2012 3:37PM
...she said as she sticks a political label on her comment -.-
jfofla Feb 15th 2012 1:41PM
The LFR group has a far greater chance to succeed if I go in as Holy, and roll on Tier Gear for my Ret spec. I will be rolling on gear I don't need for Holy, but do you really want me as a low end DPS?
Zani Feb 15th 2012 2:44PM
Yeah I totally agree with you. I'm trying to build a tanking set so I can learn to tank with my dk. I've already got the tokens for my DPS set from lfr/normal. So we have two options:
1) I try to tank in my dps gear so I can roll need on tank drops for my current spec. What happens? I either get kicked instantly for having the wrong gear, or die a few times first, and then get kicked.
2) I roll need on items that are the same ilevel or lower then the gear I'm wearing.
Rock, meet hard place.
I tried doing the "only roll greed on it and hope you win it" thing, but thats useless since my Vanq tokens usually have between 7-14 people rolling on them (yes, I counted once. 14 mages, dks, druids, & rogues.) I will say though, that I try not to be too stupid about it. For example, yesterday I won a legs token that I was going to use, but I had a mage whisper me and as if he/she could have it. I looked at their gear, and saw it was only 378, so I gave it to them. But yeah, this whole situation is sort of a pain, and no matter what happens, someone else will be pissed off about it.
Tanddori Feb 15th 2012 10:42PM
Third option:
Build your tanking set the correct way. Run a few regulars, some heroics, a BoE or two from the AH (the Zul BoEs go for pennies now). A few JP pieces and you have a tanking set more than capable of getting you through the new Heroics. After a few drops in there, boom, you're set for LFR.
Problem solved.
Nafe Feb 15th 2012 1:48PM
There are a lot of worthwhile suggestions here, but compulsive needing isn't the only problem. There are the AFK dpsers, who despite pulling < 6k, still get to roll the same as everyone else. And I swear, there's always at least one person who intentionally dies in the first 15 seconds of the Madness fight, and still gets to roll on gear if the attempt is successful.
I've already confessed to being an over-needer in LFR, but there's a whole host of problems that compel people to behave in this way, and I don't think they're entirely unreasonable.
Assuming Blizzard made LFR loot non-tradeable and have a 1c vendor value, would you still do it? Would you find the experience worthwhile, given how generally unpleasant LFR tends to be, even without the loot drama?
Caz Feb 15th 2012 5:03PM
I'll answer you.
Yes, I would still do it. I have yet to trade a piece of gear or roll 'need' on something I didn't need. I have not had any experiences in LFR that were bad for me personally. I have seen others kicked for bad behavior; I have seen a bit of d-baggery from other players, but *from what I ahve seen* the awful, horrible LFR experience that most describe is just a tad overblown and exaggerated.
I've had fun every time I've gone. There was one group that wiped on Madness about 6 times before I just gave up and left group. I just requeued and started a new one later that day which was successful.
I guess I don't find LFR unpleasant at all. LFD on the other hand - gah, don't even get me started.
ravyynn Feb 15th 2012 1:43PM
I hate how this system works...I rarely get drops because everyone needs everything and I have yet to be offered a trade or otherwise. Because of that I need on anything that is usable by my class. I don't usually need on stuff I can't use but after reading some comments maybe I should. This is a horrible way to have to play and get upgrades! I had thought that they made gear class specific but I guess that is the bonus roll, which btw, I don't believe works because I am pretty sure that I have lost a roll or two to someone who did not have the bonus.