Ol' Grumpy and the crushing disappointment of roles

One of the reasons I hate the argument that pure DPS classes should have dibs on top DPS weapons is that in order for me to play a character that uses a two-hander, I have no choice but to play a hybrid. In fact, in order to play as melee DPSer at all, I either have to play a rogue (all three rogue trees dual wield small, fast weapons) or a hybrid. Those are my options. If I wanted to play ranged DPS, I could pick from one of three possible pure classes, but if I want to melee, I'm forced to either give up the weapons I enjoy and take up a playstyle I don't like or accept that I will be forced to DPS at a penalty and be expected and/or pressured to tank.
This to me is asking me to pay twice, and it's unacceptable. Last week, Ghostcrawler posted an excellent discussion on class and role that I highly recommend everyone check out, and it seriously has me pondering what design I'd prefer for World of Warcraft and indeed how I feel about classes and roles entirely.
Cataclysm removes the pure class
If the rogue combat tree could equip, say, polearms and behave like a Blademaster, then I would be playing one. I don't have that option. Frankly, with all polearms being agility weapons now, I think making combat into a two-handed weapon tree would be a fantastic idea. I dislike when class roles become straightjackets that confine my choices unnecessarily or force me to be incapable of excelling at my chosen task not due to lack of skill but an inherent mechanical or systemic advantage given to another class to prop up their percentage of the playerbase.
At the same time, I understand the difficulties. Hybrid classes don't just gain the dubious benefit of being able to respec to tank or heal in order to benefit the other four, nine or 24 people in a group. They also gain access to the utility inherent in their other roles to a degree. No, a feral druid can't be expected to suddenly heal if one of the resto druids goes down. But he or she can use their Tranquility on big AoE damage fights, shift to Innervate or cast Rebirth, go into bear temporarily while someone else battle resses the tank, etc., etc. Druids are an extreme case in terms of hybrid flexibility, of course, and they've also lost quite a bit of it over the years. However, while this ability exists, it's hardly exclusive to hybrids anymore.
Utility abilities like Time Warp, Cloak of Shadows, Cauterize, Ice Block, Deterrence mean that many pure DPSers can do things that previously only two hybrids could do. Anyone who's working on heroic Ultraxion recognizes that druids and warriors would be far worse soakers than rogues, mages and hunters. As more and more utility abilities like Recuperate have been parceled out to pure DPSers, the line between pure and hybrid has grown weaker. Frankly, between all the CC and cooldowns some pure classes have, they've effectively become hybrid. Instead of worrying that hybrid classes do too much damage, we're now in the position of having to consider if pure classes bring too much utility to the table to be called pure DPS anymore.

Roles that we did not expect to play
This to me is the fundamental difficulty of role in MMOs -- it's counterintuitive. I can see emphasizing a light, agile combatant who relies on speed and grace to avoid incoming damage and deal it in return. I can see emphasizing a heavily armored brute who smashes his or her body into the enemy. I can see having archetypes from the Blademaster to the Juggernaut, from the Sentinel to the Assassin. But enshrining tank vs. DPS isn't something most people understand when they first come into this subgenre of game.
I played tabletop D&D for years, and never once did any of my characters think of themselves as meat shields. I killed things. Sometimes I did it with a shield, absolutely. Sometimes I did it in light armor with a great, honking sword. Sometimes I shot people with a bow, and one of my favorite characters used fist weapons exclusively. He was also a lizard man. The point being, none of these characters knew or cared about the dividing line between tanking and DPSing.
Healing at least fulfills a generally understood role that's clearly defined -- you keep your side alive while they make the other side dead (although it too can be confusing for newcomers and costs the player who merely has a healing spec even if he or she never intends to use it, does not gear for it, has never spent a point in it and is absolute rubbish at it). It doesn't matter if you could heal your way out of a fight with a level 16 using grey daggers. You're throttled in your DPS role merely because you have the potential to do it. The group benefits -- it gains your utility and can pressure you into switching to heals. Whether or not you benefit from this is entirely up to you, your willingness to spec, gear and learn to do it and your desire to perform that role.
What defines you best?
This also ignores the inverse. Class role decisions are made for you by the class you choose. If you picked up World of Warcraft, read the class list and decided that man, you liked the sinister and aggressive warlock because the idea of an arcane spellcaster who consorts with demons and learns their secrets appeals to you ... great. Hopefully, it won't turn out that you're an awesome tank -- or if it does, hopefully your group will have another awesome tank so that you're not faced with the prospect of being forced to switch mains. And even if you're not under that kind of pressure, selecting the warlock didn't just close you off from tanking and healing; it also locked you into ranged DPS. And this is despite warlocks' history of special tanking duties and Metamorphosis cooldown, which frankly baffles me. Seriously, look at that talent. All that would have to be is something that stayed up as long as you wanted and it would be a tanking stance.
My argument isn't that we should remove classes' having roles. My argument is more that we should loosen restrictions on those classes based on those roles and diversify those classes. A rogue two-handed weapon tree, a warlock tanking tree, a hunter dual-wield pistol tree (possibly even for ranged tanking -- other games do this and do it well) won't hurt a game that's seven years on and needs to break from its roots to a degree. It's time for role to be something cool that adds flavor, not a governor of what you can and can't do. If this means we all become hybrids to one degree or another, frankly, I think maybe that's already happened.
World of Warcraft: Cataclysm has destroyed Azeroth as we know it; nothing is the same! In WoW Insider's Guide to Cataclysm, you can find out everything you need to know about WoW's third expansion, from leveling up a new goblin or worgen to breaking news and strategies on endgame play.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Cataclysm
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 4)
Ruana Feb 16th 2012 1:06PM
I just want to be able to mog my Earthwarden again! DAMN YOU BLIZZ!!
Homeschool Feb 16th 2012 1:07PM
I've had my ups and downs as a Priest, because unfortunately, I didn't choose to be a Priest to be a healer - I chose it because I like keeping people alive.
The distinction may seem narrow, but what I'm getting at is that there's little pleasure for me in wrestling with shrinking bars. I love the rescue, the epic defense, the Life Grip from the edge of death.
Wrath was a great time, because while things were moderately out of control, that feeling was constantly alive for me. The split second realization that someone was about to take a life-threatening attack, and knowing that I had barely enough time for a single cast meant that these decisions were REAL. I wasn't thinking "what will provide the optimal efficiency while still compensating for the declinatory effect occurring in their proximity and balancing the next five minutes of consequences with the potential for their loss to damage our attempt and-" No! It was "act now or they DIE." I wasn't simply channeling a flow of energy to offset a leak, I was saving lives. Triage was deciding which of my spells was fast enough to beat the death blow while strong enough to matter.
I miss that feeling these days. It's clear that I don't fit into the World of Warcraft definition of a healer, but more the support role seen in a few other games. I've long fantasized about Discipline Priests taking that final step from healing into such a role, where they shield, yes, but also set up barriers for line-of-sight activity, slowing or weakening the enemy, and prevent death. Imagine leaping in front of an unlucky tank and creating a temporary barrier to deflect blows while the healers recover.
But, I digress. My point is, I expect for most of us, the thing we love is distinct from "what it is", and we've merely settled for the best match. I suppose that'll have to be enough. for now.
adamjgp Feb 16th 2012 1:39PM
I appreciate your opinion and would like to subscribe to your news letter.
My favorite class that I ever played in an MMO was an Enchanter on Sojourn MUD back in the mid 90s. The class was a pure caster, with next to zero offensive capabilities. However, it did excel at buffing offense and defense, as well as mitigating those 'oh shit' moments. The class had a plethora of abilities to make the group better, and acted mainly as a buffer/debuffer. It was great to see the tank get smashed, then fire off a quick dragonscales on whoever the boss switched to while the other tanks 'rescued' the one currently getting smashed. There was no notion of 'threat' in the game, and tanks had to actively taunt the mobs to keep their attention.
I'd love to see a pure buff/debuff class that specializes in mitigating those 'oh shit' moments. Sadly, I don't think that type of role fits very well in the 5man group dynamic that blizzard has. Also, leveling would be a pain.
Homeschool Feb 16th 2012 2:14PM
I really wonder why Blizzard worries so much about making all specs work for leveling. We have dual spec. Is it such a crime to think that there might be one spec that is tough to level as (without a group)?
Lemons Feb 16th 2012 5:33PM
God, I'm the same way...except I only like saving people by cleansing them. Also, it has to be in the AM. Something about healing in the morning, I just like it. Also, it helps if we're both in pirate costumes...
I may have said too much.
ukwest Feb 16th 2012 1:09PM
"I'm forced to either give up the weapons I enjoy and take up a playstyle I don't like or accept that I will be forced to DPS at a penalty and be expected and/or pressured to tank."
It seems the problem isn't the game but your guild. Your fundamental premise seems to be groups you are in impose this burden on you. "Peer pressure made me tank?" Really? Its a game, if you are feeling overcome from peer pressure you are probably playing it wrong.
After that point is realized the rest of the article becomes somewhat moot.
adamjgp Feb 16th 2012 1:46PM
I think it's more akin to playing on a softball team. When the short stop can't show up for a particular game, someone has to step in and play short. If the next best short stop on the team only wants to play left field. The team needs him at short, he'll likely suck it up, take one for the team, and play short.
braydn Feb 16th 2012 1:17PM
i think the reason Ghostcrawler said that there would most likely never be pure classes getting different roles other than DPS is because of the fact that players would quit the game in droves if Blizz took one of their trees away and made it something completely different. There is, however, a fix to this.
The fix is to add a 4th tree to all pure dps classes. They are adding, or should I say, splitting out, a 4th tree for druids because it just makes sense to do so. So why not add a 4th tree to the pure dps classes. Let them tank, melee, or heal in this 4th tree if they want to, but still keep everything else.
I think it would be cool to see a battlemage that tanks. It would also be equally cool to see a dark healer warlock draining foes life and siphoning it off to heal allies. It would be cool to have a demon hunter that isn't ranged at all but is a melee only class instead.
Let rogues have a ranged spec that makes throwing weapons and bombs and traps.
adamjgp Feb 16th 2012 1:49PM
BattleMage! I love that idea. When you pick your spec, you're granted access to mail, and then at 40 you get access to plate. That would open up spell plate to another spec. Of course, you'd need to do some conversions of stats to ensure the battle mage has the right amount of avoidance. That would be the hard part, and I don't even know where to start, but I'd love to be a battle mage!
detailbear Feb 18th 2012 12:02PM
"YOU SHALL NOT PASS!"
That is the battle cry of the Mage Tank.
That is the huge opportunity that Blizzard is missing.
Malkil Feb 16th 2012 1:25PM
I've brought up the idea of hunter tanking before, but not in the way that you proposed. To be lazy, I'm just going to copy/paste my post from the thread on the official forums.
"This can be accomplished by:
Either redesigning the Beast Mastery spec or, preferably, adding a new spec similar to the way that druid bear/cat specs are going to be separated.
Putting Eyes of the Beast back into the game as an Aspect-type spell. This would give the player direct control of their pet, while making the hunter itself act as a pet would. Appropriate tanking stance bonuses would be given to the pet while this is active, along with a tanking toolkit (a taunt, survivability cooldowns, etc). Likewise, the hunter toolkit would be reduced in this Aspect, though some abilities would remain available, such as traps and distracting shot. Like all other Aspects, death would not remove it, allowing the hunter and pet to be resurrected (with a single spell) and jump back in as other tanks are able to do.
Health would either be shared between hunter and pet or killing one would kill the other.
Tanking stats would be determined in a similar way to how they are for druid tanks."
zackwbrandon Feb 16th 2012 1:25PM
I hope someone at Blizzard reads this and laughs at the first comment. People don't play these types of games to have choices made for them. Granted, they may want all roads to lead to Rome, but they like to be able to choose by frigid mountains, dense forests, road, river, or sea.
What WoW needs is to do away with the notion of 'tank' as a special role. Every class should have the ability to do it somehow (whether as a stance or a spec, or as some combination thereof). The tools are already there: Hunters could have tanking pets that required more stringent commands to function properly; Warlocks have metamorphosis; Priests could summon some sort of divine armor; mages could call some sort of arcane armor or could use their mirage ability; Rogues evasion could be raised off the chart; and Enhancement could quickly be made a Shaman tank. To really work though any class and any spec should, through a cooldown that is glyphed to be permanent, or a stance that is beefed up by a talent (or two), be able to tank.
Once you make this change, all that is left to do is ask, do I want to tank while I kill adds mercilessly (while being competitive in DPS) or while I heal allies relentlessly (ditto on that competitive scale)? The ONLY thing that changes is that if you do not want to tank or suck at it, you never bother with those talents, glyphs, stances, cooldowns. Omit them from your action bar and go about life merrily as a 'pure' dps or healer.
Coco Feb 16th 2012 1:28PM
You know, I've always thought it would be cool if they rolled the 6% crit reduction into tanking stances, rather than specs. That would allow arms, frost, fury, unholy, ret, cat druids, etc. to tank older content, while leaving the "real" tanking specs to tank raids and such. I would love to build a fury or arms tanking spec.
Jyotai Feb 16th 2012 1:56PM
Is there still a penalty in the game for being a hybrid? I'd assumed that died long ago.
One reason they have the roles in WoW is because you can stand in the same spot as another creature: ally or enemy.
That may sound weird, but look at Guild Wars. Two creatures there cannot occupy the same space.
So there are no "tanks" or "threat moves" - threat is however is hurting the NPC the most, offset by whoever is shutting off the NPCs ability to kill your side the most.
"Tanking" happens there by forming a wall of character between the enemy and its goal. Are they trying to kill your elementalist or monk? All the melee move into a position on a stairwell or corner and the ranged get behind it and far enough back that the enemy's range has limited options on them.
Think football.
And the game responds with a number of moves designed to trip, tackle, shove, or even throw your opponent.
But if you can walk right through somebody... this all becomes pointless. So you need to add a gimmick to keep mobs off of the ideal targets.
Lets face it, the sane move is to ignore the harmless guy with the shield, and kill the guy behind him who's raining down a volcano on you, or the one next to that who's regrowing hacked off limbs at lightspeed...
- But instead the harmless guy with a shield gets a magical gimmick called threat, which is basically the equivalent of being the two guys in the alley in a gang fight talking smack about each other's momma's...
"Fixing" this would require an entire redesign of the game.
Maybe in WoW2 - someday. But I doubt it. WoW players are too used to having someone there yelling smack at yo momma, and thinking it matters... (and I play 6 tanks right now in the range of LFR to DS tanking, so its not like I'm anti-tank. I was a tank in Guild Wars too; but over there that meant 'linebacker to throw you off my quarterback' not 'yo momma wears combat boots!').
(But I did long ago macro /insult into my taunt skills, so that at least I could have humor in how absurd my role in the group really is...)
Oh, and if you think healer is still needed even if you toss out the tank role, go try City of Heroes... The game where you can pull a stack of 80 mobs (no that is not an exaggeration - make sure your graphics card can handle it, then try a large team mission), and people will boot from the group the guy who 'just spams heals' - because its wasted space... even though you're taking damage percentages that would make WoW raider run in terror. They handled it instead, by splitting mitigation around all the roles, and having active roles that would shut off enemy abilities, redirect them back or bounce them on, delay them, block them, and so on...
Mike Feb 16th 2012 2:00PM
As a player who often couldn't get a group because the game version was Vanilla and i was playing as Ret when "All paladins are healers" was the common mentality. I didn't succumb to pressure and unless I grouped with real life friends I didn't get dungeon runs.
At 7 years old Blizzard and WoW need to come up with more flavors to keep players interested and adding more to existing classes is one possible option. I agree in part with this article and believe some good thoughts were brought up.
josh Feb 16th 2012 2:06PM
This article was inherently whiny. You don't like range? don't play range. you don't like 1h weapons? play a Warrior or DK. And then shut up. Who the hell pressures you into playing a different spec? Not most people. Shut up and play what you want.
Snuzzle Feb 16th 2012 2:06PM
When I first started playing WoW, I played a tauren warrior for my very first toon. I was crashing around in the "mini newbie outdoor dungeon" (the bristleback thorn pit) when another player -- I want to say it was a hunter or a shaman, I don't remember -- invited me to a party. I was thrilled and flattered that this game was so friendly right asay when my then-boyfriend explained to me "He just wats you to tank for him."
Tanking, and warriors being the de facto tanks of the time, wasn't somthing I understood. The book didn't say warriors were tanks and only tanks, nor did it really explain what a tank was.
As cool as it would be for there to be every class able to do every role, I do like having clearly defined class roles. A squishy mage tanking just doesn't make sense, and a white mage is basically a priest which we already have. I just wish the roles were explained a bit better to me as a newbie, and WoW does a pretty fine job of that right now for new newbies. And a warrior can be more than a tank, hybrids are not "healers or tanks only" anymore. Which rocks!
shivus Feb 16th 2012 2:08PM
This exact issue is one of the few things that I think Rift did right. I've always felt that WOW's hybrid classes like the Shaman and Druid were the best models (mechanics aside) due to the broad choices available. choices in classes like the Mage have always felt more like "what color fire do I want to shoot at things" than anything else. Granted, Rift only has 4 "classes", but each class has a wide variety of sub specs that allow for a diversity of roles to be fulfilled. The Cleric class for example has a tanking tree, 2 melee DPS trees, 2 ranged DPS trees, and 3 healing trees. Their Rogue class has both a healing and tanking option (the bard and riftstalker respectively), and even their Mage class has a healing tree.
I honestly like the idea of adding a 4th tree to each spec for added variety. Why not a Warlock tanking tree where you permanently transform into a demon to melee tank? Or a melee mage who becomes an ice elemental with powerful CC abilities? What about a Warrior healer with health regen who redirects damage from teammates to himself to protect allies? The MoP talent changes already isolate each spec except for shared class abilities and universal talents. It should not be hard to take the Druid model of diversity and apply it to all the classes.
Shethornclaw Feb 16th 2012 2:29PM
Please make Demonology a tanking spec. I would play my warlock again on a regular basis if demo became a tank spec. Just make it so Demo utilizes Int for mitigation. Make metamorphosis a tank stance as you said. And if you look at the latest Mists calculator they are building toward it imo. Demonic Fury as a resource, Nether Plating, Demonic Slash, and we already have demon leap, demon charge, immolation aura. And as the calculator stands right now Metamorphosis does not display a CD cool down or duration.
Dazzin Feb 16th 2012 2:49PM
I would love to have the option to duel wield pistols on my hunter and tank it up with one of my heavy pets.
It already makes me angry when people yell at me for doing any melee at all (I've been in the game long enough that I have the Arms Master achievement and Knuckle Sandwich). I've always been a firm believer that if the Mob gets past the pet and within melee range I'm still gonna try and kill the bugger. I've been known to finish off plate wearers in BG with fist weapons because I know where my melee strike keys are and I keep them handy.
Give me a whip and pistols and I'll do an Indian Jones on you - that simple. I came to fight and survive - which means killing the other guy first - one way or another. The current, fairly rigid class system can be a pain. We can get the bosses to less than 5% health and loose the 'tank' and have to sacrifice ourselves to 'wipe it up' instead of being able to shift roles slightly and take over to finish the job.
Are you going to tell me that, if a unit of military personnel were deployed to a hot zone, and the unit commander went down that the rest would just sit there and wait for the enemy to 'wipe it up'. Not so much. That's the 'mindset' I prefer for fights -
I have an alt who is a tank (pally) as well as my hunter - but I'd like to think that either one could stand and fight and do what was necessary to defeat the baddies.