Skip to Content
2-16-2012 @ 12:27PM
I don't like the idea of losing closely defined roles. At all. Long experience in retail tells me that people dislike making their own decisions. They want you to tell them what to do (thus "Would you like a sample of x bread?" works so much better than "Would you like a sample of any of our breads?").What you'd end up with is a big pile of people who would be trying to do multiple things and failing at all of them because they didn't have the ability to chose just one.Secondly, I play a hunter main because I LIKE being forced into range. If I wanted to play melee, there are lots of other things to do that different ways. I am both excited and loathe to lose minimum range because now I'm going to be asked to stand closer. I don't enjoy being close to the thing that's trying to kill me. I like being a sniper sitting far far away and do not want to be pressured to change that style.You brought it up yourself, Rossi. People pressure you into doing things you don't want to. Avoiding that pressure is exactly why I refused to roll a hybrid class for the first five years I played the game. It wasn't until September 2011 that I even tried it. Making all classes have that kind of utility would simply mean that everyone would have pressure, including those who deliberately rolled to avoid it.Lastly, the game is confusing enough to explain to new comers. My sister just finished a dungeon with a hunter in all intellect leather and spirit cloth (a level 65 dungeon, I might add) who refused to turn of AotP because she thought she was helping. How on earth would having more options help that? "You can use x in this situation, but in situation f you want a or c, although option z could probably work..."No, just no.
2-16-2012 @ 12:57PM
@LuotianHaving more classes with the potential to tank or heal would reduce the pressure on any particular individual to tank or heal. Not increase it, as you suggest. Sure, if your Hunter became no longer a pure dps class, it might increase the pressure on you specifically to do something other than dps. But it eases the pressure on every other member of the group.My main is a Druid. I mostly heal, but can do rDPS. I'd also have a tank spec if triple spec were allowed. My second character is a DK who mostly tanks but also has a potent frost spec.From the perspective of someone who's healing or tanking four times a week because it's the role the raid needs filled, I've always seen the pure dps classes and those who chose to play them as rather selfish. Particularly when they complain that they can't get a group.Your "All I ever want to do is ranged dps, so don't give my character the potential to do anything else or I might be asked to change!" attitude says everything I need to know about your priorities.
2-16-2012 @ 2:08PM
@tmenzelIf you're *paying* to play a game, then I don't think it's selfish to play the style that you want. We're not talking about, say, the military where everybody needs to work as a team or somebody dies, IRL. When I want to tank, I jump on my DK. But when I get tired of it, or the knuckleheads I find in LFG, I jump on my Warlock and nobody bugs me to tank. It's my $15/month, and it's not selfish for me to want to spend it however I want.I do agree, however, that adding more tanking classes may increase the pool of available tanks, provided that people actually pick those roles and enjoy them. But in a pinch, somebody may be pressured by the group to change roles, however I'm not sure how often that would happen.I somewhat agree with the OP regarding complexity; Blizzard has made strides to make things simpler for new players, but more could still be done. Some classes I stay away from because there's just too many damn abilities. And there's tons of abilities that are very situational. It gets annoying to have two or three additional action bars of abilities that you "might" need to use as some point.
2-16-2012 @ 2:17PM
Part of why I left one guild not long ago was that my feral-tank / resto druid kept getting told to 'just hit cat form and DPS this fight'.- Nevermind that the other tanks all had a DPS offspec and could have done the same... the perception was that a druid could do it better...So for that toon at least, I'm looking forward to druid going to 4 specs and being able to say 'not only do I lack DPS gear, but I lack a DPS spec now as well, so I can, if you folks think 9-manning + 1 tourist is fine on this boss. I'll even take screencaps, but I left my bermuda shorts back in the bank in Orgrimmar.'That said, I do agree that the game needs a melee two-hander role. Wait, that's Arms warrior. But it'd still be need to have an agility one also. But I think Monk DPS will end up being "YET ANOTHER DUAL WIELDER, AS IF WE DIDN'T HAVE 34 OF THEM ALREADY."
2-16-2012 @ 2:28PM
I'd like to clarify that I'm not saying "all pure DPS players are selfish" nor am I saying "pure classes are inferior" or anything of the sort. Skilled DPS are just as necessary as skilled tanks or healers, being good at it requires skill and attention, and players who enjoy and are good at it are contributing as much as any others.Rejecting the idea of your pure class gaining the ability to fill an additional role, because then you might be asked to fill that other role, sounds selfish to me.Even if you don't want to fill that role, a higher population of characters potentially filling the under-represented roles benefits everyone.My perspective is mostly from raiding. On my ideal raid team, everyone does the most that they can to contribute to the success of the group. Individual players refusing to step into a different role because they don't enjoy it as much, while expecting others in the group to do exactly that, have gotten under my skin. I meant no offense to the pure DPS population at large, and I apologize if I offended.
2-16-2012 @ 5:20PM
@tmenzel: And THAT is why I call this a 'first world WoW problem'. I don't raid. I want to, but, as I said, I work retail and my availability changes every week. There are no days I can guarantee to be free. What I do with my time is largely 5-man pugs (except the one character who raids in LFR). I don't want to get on my hunters that I love to play after work to unwind is "this healer/tank sucks! Hunter, you do it" like I get on my Shaman. Yes, I have a resto spec and healbot for it, but if I wanted that stress I would have qued for it. Instead, I either have to do it, get votekicked, or find myself facing yet another 20 minute que when they all leave. Selfish? Heck yeah, it is, but I'm paying for this game. It is my free time, the only time I'm allowed to be selfish. So, yeah, I'm going to take it while I can.
2-16-2012 @ 6:24PM
...Your argument has to be one of the most counter-intuitive that I've ever seen. Amidst all the complaints of changes to the game "dumbing it down", you're arguing in defense of this dumbing-down? If nothing else, I must commend you for playing the Devil's Advocate.However, the fact remains that WoW is an intelligent game. It has complexity. The only way you could completely avoid this is to have every class in the game have only 1 spec, only 1 rotation and rely on only 1 stat. Add any more depth to the game and you will ALWAYS have idiots running around doing dumb and incorrect things. So why use that as evidence against complexity? Why not make the game MORE complex, and then include plenty of educational tools to help the...*ahem* "slower" individuals get caught up to speed. If these people still can't figure out what to do, even with all of these tutorials and helpers, than there's nothing else you can do about them.Diversity is great. No, scratch that, diversity is FANTASTIC. The more options a person has, the more of an opportunity for them to display their skill and intelligence by making the right choices or an odd choice but make it work really well. "Easy to learn, hard to master" is the silver bullet of game design, a major component for success; you want to make it easy to get into, but leave plenty of room to excel. In addition, the more options a person has, the more likely it is that they'll find a niche they enjoy. Hunters (no offense) and Mages are the major antithesis to this concept, because all three specs of the class do the same basic thing; they all get the same weapon and all perform their jobs in very similar ways. Sure, Beast Mastery might be able to rely more on a stronger pet and Frost may be more adept at freezing things, but when it comes time for the player themselves to actually do damage, things proceed generally the same as the other specs. A Hunter is a Hunter is a Hunter, just as a Mage is a Mage is a...you get the idea. Whereas you could look at 3 Paladins and, depending on their chosen spec, they could be doing completely different things and playing in completely different ways.And if you don't like having a tanking or healing spec available to your class and just want to DPS...do that. If somebody in the group gives you flack about it, tell them that you only have DPS specs and that they just have to Deal With It. Warriors who spec Arms and Fury are in the same boat, as well as Death Knights who spec Unholy and Frost, Shamans who spec Enhance and Elemental, Priests who spec Discipline and Holy (as a Priest told me the other day "sure, I can DPS, as long as spamming Smite and Holy Fire counts as being a DPS") Just because your class has a particular role available to it doesn't mean you HAVE to spec for it if you don't want to. In fact, that's the overall point of the article; WoW needs to be the place where you can play the way you want and not what the game or other people want.
2-17-2012 @ 9:32AM
Luotian: even if you they could tell you to tank that fight in LFD, you can't. You can no longer attempt to switch roles in an LFD. The next person would be a tank, period. An that guy that queued as tank either finishes the instance and accepts being the tank for how 10 second wait and bag of goodies, or he drops or is kicked. Unless you queued up as a tank, a decision you make prior to joining, you won't be called to do it. Now let me point out the other obvious thing wrong with your comment. The guy telling you to yank probably has his own tanking tree now, or one of the other people do. Why do you automatically assume YOU would be asked? Maybe someone would volunteer? Maybe tanks would be a lot more available and you can just re-up and boom, tank shows?
2-17-2012 @ 10:35AM
@Angus: You don't officially switch roles. Everyone just kind of agrees, you change your spec and you go. Which sucks, because then you don't get the bag of goodies and the guy you're carrying does.
First time? A confirmation email will be sent to you after submitting.
Members enter your username and password.
Enter your AOL or AIM screenname and password.
Please keep your comments relevant to this blog entry. Email addresses are never displayed, but they are required to confirm your comments.
When you enter your name and email address, you'll be sent a link to confirm your comment, and a password. To leave another comment, just use that password.
To create a live link, simply type the URL (including http://) or email address and we will make it a live link for you. You can put up to 3 URLs in your comments. Line breaks and paragraphs are automatically converted — no need to use <p> or <br /> tags.