Trade skill crusader brings back customer service and sweat equity to crafting

Most WoW players would agree that convenience and self-service is the way of today's game. But for one stubborn tradesman on Sentinels (US), life as an Azerothian salesman is anything but obsolete. Daen, a dedicated craftsman and proprietor of Daen's Crafting Emporium, single-handedly maintains what may be one of World of Warcraft's last remaining bastions of personal craftsmanship and trade skill service -- with a twist. This proprietor not only aims to provide personal service, but he does it at no charge, with the insistence that customers devote sweat equity to their mutual creations as well.Forget the endless debate over hardcore versus casual -- there's another moniker that we here at Insider Trader hold dear: salesman. What's that? You don't know any salesmen in WoW these days? You're not alone. Times have changed since craftspeople toiled to build reputations as the go-to traders on their servers ... when Ironforge was the hub of civilization, where a few elite enchanters held court over the entire server with coveted formulae from such exotic locales as Stratholme and Scholomance.
It's a brave new world in today's Outland. Most enchanters don't enchant for the general public at all, unless you provide mats and a tip. And in any profession, with so many other players on the servers who have the same patterns (even rare patterns are generally available from more than one player) and so many easy ways to make money (hello, daily quests!), there's little reason to hang around town to build a regular clientele. Components provided or created by other professions are readily available on the Auction House -- there's no need to seek out and nurture relationships with another player from a complementary profession.
Have the conveniences Blizzard has developed for today's crafters meant the death of the salesman?
Main character I don't really have one. My warlock Daenar is my oldest, and my paladin Daenzu is my most commonly used.Guild Portals of the Nether
Realm Sentinels (Horde)
Roster of profession specialists
- Daenzu Enchanting and jewelcrafting
- Daenpo Tailoring and alchemy (max archaeology)
- Daenha Skinning and leatherworking (max first aid)
- Daenuk Mining and blacksmithing
- Daenex Herbalism and inscription
- Daenis Skinning and engineering (Goblin)
- Daenar Mining and engineering (Gnome) (max cooking and fishing)
- Daenaf, Daengo and Daenyc Varied professions but none maxed out
Daen: My overall goal in the game (and in real life, by extension) is to provide the best example I can to the most people possible. If I can positively affect even one person, I've succeeded. The Crafting Emporium is merely the most recent and most effective attempt at that goal. I started out with a transportation service (using warlocks and mages to get people around quickly), then ran a dungeon run service for lower-level people and ended up with the Emporium.
As for the Emporium itself, my overall goal is customer service, but that's tempered by my desire for people to improve themselves. For example, I refuse to simply take someone's gold, buy materials with it, and give them the end result. I insist that they put enough effort into it to actually have some satisfaction with the result. It's earned me a few enemies, but I don't mind. Even if they don't like me very much, I'm still affecting them in a positive way, in my opinion at least.

I'm definitely a roleplayer. I've long enjoyed RPGs such as D&D (various versions), D20, or Star Wars and World of Darkness, as well as several gaming systems I created for various occasions. However, I never really got into RP in-game. It always seemed way too distant for my liking. The Emporium isn't an RP activity, as a result. I do very much enjoy interacting with other players, customers or not, especially when they're confused as to why I run it.
How much of your business happens via direct customer interaction, as opposed to the Auction House?
Almost all of my business is done directly. People whisper me or use my name in trade, and we set things up. Most times, they have the materials ready and waiting before they contact me. I also get limited business done via in-game mail, for people whose schedules don't match mine. Pretty much every day, I get lockboxes in my rogue's mail to be unlocked and returned. The Auction House isn't something I use often. Most of the time, I only use it to sell leftover materials from my crafting: elemental materials, excess cloth, pets from my Sholazar quests, that sort of thing.

I use trade a great deal, in fact -- every five minutes for my Emporium, and I watch that channel very closely. Some people don't whisper me so much as just say my name in trade, so I've learned to be careful. In the past, I've had problems with gold sellers spamming their messages, but Blizzard's relatively recent limit on posts has cut them down a great deal. Trolling is still something of a nuisance, but nothing more. Unfortunately, trade has been pretty quiet in the past few months. I'm hoping that changes with more content added to the game.
Do you compete at all with the power players of the Auction House on your realm? What are relationships like between traders there?
I've had some dealings with auctioneers over the years. Most seem pretty even-tempered, but they're very hostile with each other, as I've seen. The fact that the Emporium is strictly nonprofit helps me a great deal. They don't see me as a threat, despite the low prices I put on my excess materials. They know they can simply buy me out and repost my materials, and I won't mind. They know that gold (and money, for that matter) means very little to me.
Have you always been a production crafter in WoW?
I had several activities I ran regularly -- mage buses, summoning services, and dungeon runs. I even ran a few recreational activites like scavenger hunts, hide and seek, and firework/spellwork shows. The Emporium is merely my most recent long-term activity, started about 14 months ago.
Daenar's the oldest character I still have (deleted the starting troll characters), started about a month before The Burning Crusade was released, but he started out as a miner/blacksmith. I wanted to make my characters interdependent, but I became frustrated with the bind on pickup items on the smithing list. I eventually switched to engineering and made the rest of my professions relevant to the classes they played (smithing for my warrior, enchanting for my blood elf, etc).
Pretty much all my efforts in crafting started out for my own benefit only. I only created the Emporium after my mage buses and summoning activities became less popular and helpful. Since I don't value gold, I've never really made items just to sell to people.

I started branching out character professions as soon as I made them, because I used the professions to get equipment for all my characters. I joked with my roommate that I was a self-contained economy. I leveled up all of my characters simultaneously -- two to three levels difference, max. The exception is Daenyc, my death knight, since I couldn't level him up until after Wrath of the Lich King was released.
Do you try to farm your own materials, or is their source of little or no importance to you?
As a matter of pride, I always like to gather my own materials, but I'm not above shelling out gold to the Auction House if I'm in a time crunch. I've been hired before, back before Wrath of the Lich King, for my skinning services.
How important is recipe completionism to your personal satisfaction?
Recipe completionism is definitely important to me, but there are degrees of sanity I haven't lost to it yet. The fact that only rogue cooks can make Thistle Tea is something many cooks can't handle, for example. I'm especially interested in enchanting recipes which have been removed from the game, like the ones that dropped from the now-extinct four Nightmare Dragons. I regret that I didn't get those recipes before they were gone, and as they were bind on pickup, it's a permanently lost opportunity, especially as they're still in demand for their compatibility with heirloom items.
I even created a dwarven smith before Daenyc existed so that I could do his low-level smithing quests, get the recipe rewards, and use the neutral Auction House to transfer them to my Horde smith. I'm quite proud of the fact that my orc smith can make Ironforge Breastplates, and I've actually made one of those Alliance-only quest recipe items for someone, so I can claim that it's been useful.

Endgame recipes have always been a problem for me for two reasons. Firstly, I deeply dislike doing dungeon runs with pickup groups (PUGs), and that includes raids. I just can't handle the rude behavior and general incompetence shown there. As a result, my only option is to purchase the recipes on the Auction House, but their prices are a bit on the insane side. Nonprofit may be a mark of pride for me, but it does hamper me a bit in that area.
When Icecrown Citadel was first released, I wanted very much to learn the recipes inside. I organized about three dozen separate reputation runs through the area, up to the first boss, to get the rep I needed to purchase them. We'd fight our way to Marrowgar, leave the dungeon, reset, and do it again. Because we never actually beat a boss, the raid lock was never activated. Unfortunately, those ICC recipes aren't used anymore, at least not often.
Tell us a little bit about your referral system for times you can't make something for a customer yourself. Is it all about lending a friendly hand, or do you have incentives or formal agreements in place to facilitate referrals?
Referrals are a valuable tool to me. I often ask people who have a recipe I never learned for their assistance, but I make sure they're willing to work for just the materials, as I do. It may sound self-centered, but I only refer people who share my methods.
Do you find that you've made much of a dent in today's Auction House-centric market? Do you get a significant number of repeat customers?
In general, I've had nothing but positive responses to my efforts, even before the Emporium started. People seem to enjoy the change in pace. I haven't noticed my activities changing the prices on the Auction House, but then I never really kept track of AH prices.
Some people have responded negatively to my efforts. They seemed to think I'm damaging the economy, but they're few in number. I don't mind, though. Being disliked doesn't upset me, just being ignored. I've lost track of the number of times I've put out an advertisement in trade, displaying my professions and saying they're free, only to see people continue put out general calls for help in trade. Either they don't believe me, or they don't know how to read. Both options amuse me.

If I'm online and not crafting, I'm working on my guild. It's not an easy task getting new recruits, though, since I want them to have values similar to mine. People generally don't have much interest in helping others, unfortunately. A lot of them view what I do as a job, and I do take it very seriously, but I don't like my job. I do like this activity. I'm content with having a small guild, though. I've had to rebuild Portals of the Nether from scratch several times over now, and I've learned that quality is always superior to quantity in a WoW guild.
Check in with Daen's latest offerings at Daen's Crafting Emporium.
Filed under: Economy, Interviews, 15 Minutes of Fame






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Bart Feb 16th 2012 2:28PM
Awesome bloke, pity he isn't on Argent Dawn. :
Noyou Feb 16th 2012 2:31PM
I used to hang out a lot in LK and offer my JC services on trade. Only worked for tips. I planned on doing the same in cata, but since I keep trade tabbed, I really don't see people asking for JC's that often. I also have a decent amount of gold. Occasionally I will hang out on my mage and offer porting. If I see someone asking for something I can provide, and they are not asking in an overly obnoxious way, I will switch toons and offer up services. The only fee I ever charge is for a CD (transmute or tailoring). With having 9 85's, I just don't usually have much free gametime to just sit around and chill out as I did before cata. I am a slave to my alts :P I still try and take some time off to, "smell the roses" as Ferris Bueller put it :)
Zamboni Feb 16th 2012 2:57PM
I'll cut the exotic stuff, usually if I see someone asking for BC or LK gems. I'm curious to see what they're up to. Classic player? Twink? Min/max leveler?
Current content cuts? Check the AH. The guy who tipped me 2g ruined it for everyone, sorry.
Noyou Feb 16th 2012 3:59PM
I can empathize with you. I used to keep a "will not cut" list for people who tipped less than 5g. On the other side of the spectrum, I used to tell people tipping me more than 20g it was too much and would wait until they tipped less. I have since changed my ways. I take the bad with the good. Just like with mage ports- I love porting so I really don't care if I get a tip. I like it, I'm not going to lie. It's not even about the money- it's the fact that one human being is taking time out for another.
During winter veil, a random person came up to me after a snowball fight and gave me a gift. It was a wrapped up skinning knife. I thought that was one of the nicest/funnest things to ever happen to me, in game. So I went out and wrapped up a bunch of junk and gave it to random people. It's the little things.
Saeadame Feb 16th 2012 3:00PM
That's pretty cool! Personally, I work on a tip-optional basis. Say I've just enchanted something, instead of sitting there without pressing trade until the other person puts in a tip, I'll immediately click 'trade' - that way they can decide if they want to tip me, or just press 'trade' and get their item. More often than not, I think I've gotten bigger tips for doing this - people seem to like having a choice =).
loli.gigis Feb 16th 2012 5:43PM
Same here for portals! I offer my services in chat and a guy told me to just say '10g' and be done with it. I refused, if you don't have the gold to tip then I will still port you anyways.
Bubs Feb 17th 2012 1:14AM
I definitely make more money with optional tips. I enchant and port for "free" all the time. If it's a lowbie, I don't let them pay. But I've had some people give me 30g for a port or ungodly amounts in enchanting tips. I think I've made more money this way than if I had set a price, it gets repeat customers, and it helps the genuinely broke people out.
Daffy Feb 16th 2012 3:06PM
Daen, you don't have Biznicks 247x128 Accurascope (+30 ranged hit rating, drops in Molten Core). http://www.wowhead.com/item=18290
It is great enchant while leveling (can be attached to BoA weapon but works after 50lvl).
Caz Feb 16th 2012 3:11PM
This guy sounds like a nice fellow. Hats off to you, Daenar.
I don't advertise, but I do whisper people looking in Trade for enchants to let them know I can help. I never accept tips from strangers when they have their own materials, though I've often had them mailed to me after the fact. For guild members, former guild members and other people I'm otherwise familiar with, I offer services for free if I have the materials.
There's a lot of greed in Azeroth. My point of view is that since none of it is real, there's little point in profit if I have it to freely give.
Aaron Feb 16th 2012 3:45PM
Can you make a living that way? One of the worst things about being an Enchanter pre-Inscription was having to bark in Trade and work for tips. For a Crusader enchant like the one in the picture, I'd be lucky to get a 10g tip, because the customer probably doesn't know that the recipe is a rare drop. Maybe the environment would change after a while, maybe I'd get a few regulars who actually appreciate what I do. But I suspect I'd have to deal with a lot of entitlement behavior to get to that point.
It's a good idea at heart, though, and I try to do the same on a smaller level. If somebody posts "LF Power Torrent enchant, my mats" in trade chat, I'll respond. I'll accept a tip if offered, but I never demand one (that kind of defeats the purpose of tips). Once I get my alts leveled, I'll probably do the same with ports and lockpicks.
Samphis Feb 16th 2012 6:43PM
Daen has helped me and my wife out several times. He's a fantastic bloke.
Lipstick Feb 16th 2012 4:35PM
I can appreciate what he's trying to do... but I don't appreciate the implication that somehow accepting tips makes you less of a real crafter or great player.
I have spent HOURS farming for certain recipes, THOUSANDS of gold to collect some relatively rare patterns which would never drop for me, and have overall taken a great deal of pride at my efforts as a crafter in game.
The amount I've made in tips has no where equaled out to the hours/time/money in game I've spent leveling, or perfecting my collection of recipes for my clients.
When people don't bother to tip me at all, or give me a very small amount in response to a very rare pattern, there is a part of me which feels frustrated by this. I never complain about it, though, I just keep on trucking. For me it's more about the thought, and less about the money. I've gone up to a newer player and completely enchanted their character from head to toe with extra mats I had laying around, just because I could.
While I am pleased someone goes out of his way to be nice, I don't like the way it makes it seem as if those who do not do exactly what he does, are somehow without the same level of values as he himself has. It seems a bit .. rude.
LynorePaisely Feb 17th 2012 3:58PM
I can see why you would get upset at him when he says he doesn't accept tips and thinks everyone else should be like that, but he doesn't mean he dislikes people or thinks less of them if they do take tips. He's an awesome dude who's done quite a few crafting things for me and I like to share his ideals when I offer my crafting services. I generally don't take tips, closing the trade window before someone has a chance to. I'm not against tipping; I myself am a pretty big tipper. But what he does is simply amazing and it puts a smile on my face each time I am online and see his emporium open for business.
Sarabande Feb 17th 2012 3:43AM
I understand that. I know he's probably very nice and well appreciated but for me, a tip is a way to say "thanks for your time." Otherwise, people just get used to getting everything for free and giving nothing in return and thinking it's OK. I port or enchant (though never advertise) and appreciate tips. I sometimes ask for runes just to let them know that it takes SOMETHING to do this. I play this game for me and help my friends and guildies (and absolutely refuse tips from them). I also try to refuse outrageously large tips, though some people generously insist.
I wanted to hear more about "sweat equity." What does he expect people to do when he crafts things for them? Maybe if that was better explained, I might appreciate it more.
I've just had too many experiences with freeloaders (beggars, people who want one dungeon run after another, people who seem to be incapable of doing quests without someone at least 20 levels higher following them around, that all ports or unlocking should always be free, etc.) to where I even refuse to give people 6c. It sounds horrible, but I feel better telling them where they can easily obtain said 6c. (Go kill the mobs right outside SW . . . you'll get 6c easily and learn that it's faster and easier than going around asking people, or I might tell them that they could possibly make 20g on the AH for a stack of copper - I look at the AH for current prices). And also, I accept tips because I think it's correct to compensate people for their time and the effort (and the cost) it took for them to get the profession skilled up (or to get their class level up to where they can do that). After all, if you count the all the time you spent doing stuff for strangers, that can be significant. I always tip (in WoW and in real life) and try to be generous about it.
What I do is try to foster independence, self-sufficiency, cooperation, courtesy and gratitude for other people's time and energy, in a world where a lot of that sometimes seems to be in short supply. I try to do it through example but I don't know if anyone is paying attention. While I think generosity is wonderful, I think there are too many people who EXPECT that EVERYTHING should be free for them. You can tip me or not but I'll respect you more if you do. I have enough gold, so it's not that - I respect your appreciation of the time you ask of others. And friends get things for free because I don't become friends with everyone. I don't become friends with jerks and if I find out that you are a constant freeloader, you don't get to be my friend for too long and a drag on my energy. Just as I try to be a good person and a good friend (thereby earning friendship), I think others should as well. It's how life works, or should, anyway.
And it may seem odd but I sometimes offer things when no one asks - free 16 slot Netherweave bags to new players, or low level gear I find when farming for Small Eggs in Westfall. (It's actually a lot harder and quite time consuming to give stuff away then to just DE, AH or vendor them). Sometimes the sudden and unexpected gifts from strangers are more fun anyway. If I'm questing with someone I don't know, I'll offer a port back to town (free).
Aaron Feb 17th 2012 2:58PM
"I wanted to hear more about "sweat equity." What does he expect people to do when he crafts things for them?"
I read through the article three times looking for the same thing. From what I can tell, it basically means "your mats, though I might be willing to make an exception." Looking at the enchant trade (the picture where Daenzu is trading with Kimjong-something), that includes vellum and other cheap reagents. But he (generally) won't just trade cash for scrolls, because his focus in on providing a service.
[When somebody begs for cash] "I might tell them that they could possibly make 20g on the AH for a stack of copper - I look at the AH for current prices."
That's what I don't get about in-game begging. There's money all around you, waiting for you to take it. A stack of Copper will buy you a Netherweave Bag, and 100g is enough to pay for all of your 1-60 class training, with money left over for taxis and the occasional BoE upgrade.
On a related note, don't ask me for money to buy mounts and riding training. If you need cloth for First Aid, I'll help you out. Need some Bear Flanks to level your Cooking? Got you covered. Riding skill, however, is not required, and it's an expense you should have seen coming. Just because you meet the level requirement for flight doesn't mean you have to have it. I spent days farming the money for basic and Cold Weather Flight, and epic flight cost me two months of Northrend dailies. I'm not going to "loan" you three grand for something that's merely a convenience.
Morncreek Feb 16th 2012 4:55PM
Like Saeadame, I operate on tip-optional. Sure, I've been trolled at times (8 silver for a Blade Ward enchant in WotLK is the most memorable), but it creates good will. Players pay attention to crafters who are polite, patient, helpful, can be trusted to return leftover materials if their customer accidentally gives them too much or not log out if they have to switch toons, or donates mats to cover what is missing. Generally, they tip accordingly, whether in gold or in miscellaneous items. (Showing my game age here, but 4xMooncloth FTW!)
morncreek Feb 16th 2012 4:58PM
D'oh. I forgot to congratulate Daen on being so stellar! What you do for your server is amazing.
Daen Feb 16th 2012 5:20PM
Daffy, sorry, but I don't have that particular scope. I spent enough time in Molten Core grinding Thorium Brotherhood rep, I'm thoroughly sick of that place. There are much better scopes out there, IMO, though.
Lipstick, I never meant to imply that I'm better. I'm not. And I DO accept tips, if they're offered. I just am absolutely certain never to ask for them, ever. I feel the pain you've felt searching for such rare recipes, and spending thousands on them on the AH.
Hope that helps,
Daen
Zjinga Feb 16th 2012 5:49PM
Well done, Daen! A Sentinels institution since damn near the very beginning. Where there's a greedy nitwit wanting you to shell out 1200g for an enchant (with your mats) because they've got a raid leader that makes them buy patterns with DKP, you could almost always count on Daen to have a less absurdly-priced substitute. Three cheers for Daen!
kmarcy1729 Feb 16th 2012 6:43PM
I'd just like to give a shout out to Deathlok, Trollbane (US-H), he's an amazing enchanter & does a lot of work through trade.