Is there such a thing as casually hardcore?
by Anne Stickney 
Feb 17th 2012 at 12:00PM
Once upon a time, I was an MC raider back in vanilla WoW. I raided six nights a week, three to four hours a night. My off night, Friday, was spent gathering plants in Felwood and other materials for potions and flasks. We busted our butts on completing progression content before anyone else on the realm, and if we couldn't manage that, before anyone else on our side of the faction fence managed to do so. Somewhere in the midst of AQ-40, the guild fell apart. People were just burnt out on way too much raiding and all the preparation involved in getting that raiding done successfully.
These days, I raid three nights a week, three hours a night or so. To me, it's far, far more casual than what I used to do. I don't spend a ton of time on farming materials, and I don't spend a ton of time on other things unless it happens to be in game holiday time. I don't usually run random instances unless I'm after something specific, and I don't really do PvP at all. I'd call myself casual, simply based on the time that I play and what I do with that time. Yet there are still plenty of people out there who fling the hardcore title at me.
When I look at how I used to play and how I play now, I can't understand why anyone would think what I'm doing now is anything but casual, and I'm confused as to why anyone would say differently.
These days, I raid three nights a week, three hours a night or so. To me, it's far, far more casual than what I used to do. I don't spend a ton of time on farming materials, and I don't spend a ton of time on other things unless it happens to be in game holiday time. I don't usually run random instances unless I'm after something specific, and I don't really do PvP at all. I'd call myself casual, simply based on the time that I play and what I do with that time. Yet there are still plenty of people out there who fling the hardcore title at me.
When I look at how I used to play and how I play now, I can't understand why anyone would think what I'm doing now is anything but casual, and I'm confused as to why anyone would say differently.
It's a really good question, and I don't know if there's really a defined answer to it because the question itself is so subjective. To someone like me who spent endless hours plugging away in Molten Core and trying to smush Ragnaros into a fine paste, what I do now is much less hardcore, far more casual, and just my speed. But to someone who's never stepped a foot into a raid instance in their gaming lifetime, even the little raiding I do must look like a lot.
To our realm, maybe we look hardcore. To the rest of the world, I expect we look somewhat casual. It's all a matter of which perspective you're looking at the situation from, I think. As far as I am concerned, my guild and my playstyle is entrenched deeply in that somewhere in between, and I'm perfectly OK with that. It's exactly where I want to be.
I think what bothers me more than the definitions is the way that the terms casual and hardcore are thrown about like insults, to be perfectly honest. Having played both ends of the spectrum, I can firmly say that there's nothing really wrong with either, but I think that most players out there are somewhere in that in-between space. What I think is most interesting, however, is that WoW seems to be steadily moving, developmentally speaking, to a space that is neither casual nor hardcore. It's somewhere in between -- somewhere where all of us already are.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
sulkar Feb 17th 2012 12:06PM
The debate reminds me a lot of the following - "Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?" George Carlin
Den Feb 17th 2012 1:06PM
Good point. To me, "hardcore" is when I'm asked to put in hours that could do harm to my real world priorities (i.e. if a guild says I have to lose a lot of sleep or get kicked when I have work tomorrow, or if I need to give out my phone number so officers can find me IRL, it's too much), BUT the guild is able to progress to a very high level when compared globally (even I've done server firsts, but it wasn't on a high ranked server).
Casual just means you play. Doesn't matter if it's 1 or 24 hours a day, you're just playing. You don't have to be any good to be casual.
Hardcore casual is when you don't eat, sleep, and breathe for a raid, but you still do well (similar to what Ms. Stickney is discussing). It may have been different in the old days of raiding, but the PvE in games these days has gotten very easy and people STILL stand in the fire. If you've got brains to move, do some research on your class, and use your fingers instead of your face to play, you can probably pull off hardcore casual ;P
Gwen Feb 17th 2012 3:16PM
@Den - My problem with that line of thinking is that you're still applying the labels based on skillset. You can do research on your class, know what buttons to push, etc. And still have no desire to raid. Alternatively, you can eat, sleep, and breathe raiding, and still have no idea how to properly play your class. (A few former guildmates of mine can probably attest to this.)
Personally, I would imagine the spectrum to be based on the amount of time you're willing to devote to the game. If you were the guy who called in sick to make server first level 85, or whatever, I would call you "hardcore," even if you'd never set foot in a raid. "Hardcore" and "casual" don't just apply to raiding, but overall playstyle.
Gordal Feb 18th 2012 5:04AM
This describes both my driving abilities and my WoW career.
Of course, regarding driving I have one philosophy: Speed limits are meant to be obeyed. IN BOTH DIRECTIONS. If I can keep driving at exactly 70MPH, then everyone going faster or slower than I am is clearly in the wrong.
rogera Feb 17th 2012 12:09PM
Imagine if you spent nine hours a week exercising or playing guitar. Do you think you would be considered a casual guitar player? A casual athlete?
TimR Feb 17th 2012 12:15PM
That's still just a matter of perspective, which is why casual and hardcore are such subjective words. If you play guitar nine hours a week, that may seem like a lot to someone who doesn't, but I've known people that play for 3 hours a day, everyday. My wife runs at least 8 hours a week, but used to run 15-20. She considers herself a very casual runner now. It's all subjective.
Shammytime Feb 17th 2012 12:24PM
Not saying I disagree with your point, but food for thought.
Hours people watch T.V. in a week.
Hours some people read books during a week.
Hours some people spend on sites like Facebook or twitter.
Those are quite different that training for a sport or playing a guitar I know, but they are different activities that take up large portions of a persons time, which WoW may occupy instead.
raingod Feb 17th 2012 12:22PM
Except if she were playing guitar, all of that time would be spent playing-Raiding is very much a hurry up and wait type of thing, moreso in 25 mans. I don't know about anyone else, but there's far more downtime between trash and bosses than anything else.
Camo Feb 17th 2012 12:33PM
Well, you may need to change your approach if you idle that much.
There was a decent guide back in 2009 from stratfu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fxOW3L890c
goldfish_girl99 Feb 17th 2012 12:42PM
When I was in college I had a lot of friends in the music program. Except I barely ever saw them because they used to practice 6-8 hours a day, in addition to their coursework. Basically, if they weren't in class, they were in a practice room. To me, that was seriously hardcore, (if not insane), and I bet most of them would agree. To them, I'm sure the idea of 9 hours a week practicing would be extremely casual. Even for myself, I used to practice 2 hours a day, and I was just in a little community band.
However, for most people, 9 hours a week devoted to a hobby is probably pretty hardcore. It really is all a matter of perspective.
Matthew Rossi Feb 17th 2012 1:20PM
A player who logs in for an hour a day to run a heroic and do some dailies plays for seven hours a week. One who manages two raid finders on the weekend is easily now at the 9 hours a week stage and hasn't even walked into a normal/heroic mode raid.
Is that person hardcore? The term is nearly meaningless nowadays.
Aaron Feb 17th 2012 1:22PM
Even when I had just started with violin lessons and was only playing 2.5 hours a week, friends and co-workers asked about my professional ambitions. As the Carlin quote suggests, labels usually say more about the observer than the observed.
It's also harder to properly gauge somebody else's effort when it's greater than your own. A professional musician would look at how long I've been playing and how far I've come, and they might say my Violining tradeskill is maybe 225*. My friends and co-workers, however, see me doing something they don't think they could (their words, usually accompanied by some remark about finding the time), so it seems like a much bigger deal.
* If you're familiar with the ABRSM system, I'm working on Grade 4 of 8.
SamLowry Feb 17th 2012 2:50PM
Mr. Rossi, you might want to go back and reread some of the postings because folks weren't talking about playing WoW 9 hours a week, they were talking about raiding 9 hours a week.
That's a big difference, especially considering that the vast majority of players still haven't seen the inside of a normal Cata raid.
BTW, if you're concerned about "progression", you're hardcore.
TimR Feb 17th 2012 3:18PM
And yet the average American watches about 34 hours of TV per week... How does nine hours spent in game doing anything even compare to that? Gaming still has some stigma attached to it that if you sit down and do it for a prolonged period of time, you must be hardcore. It's basically just TV with interaction built in.
Devin Feb 17th 2012 3:50PM
@SamLowry
I think you need to re-read what OP wrote (to which Mr Rossi was replying); nothing about raiding is mentioned.
Also, using an ambiguous term to define another ambiguous term is.... well.... ambiguous. Progression for you might be killing heroic spine while for me heroic Morchock and for someone else might be reg Morchock; which one of us is hardcore? Certainly not all 3.
Skarn Feb 17th 2012 6:35PM
@Sam
Not necessarily. Currently I raid 3.5 hours on 2 nights a week. That puts me at 7 hours. I log in for 1-2 hours over the weekend to do some fishing, maybe a couple quests for my Loremaster and a big of Digging. That's 9 hours.
I don't run 5-mans, I don't need anything. Not even Valor or Justice. I don't do dailies either. I don't PvP. I don't play alts. I just raid. I play a bit over 2 nights a week. I'm actually not playing much WoW at all. I spend more time in a week eating than playing WoW. I spend almost the same amount of time just driving to work.
9 hours a week really isn't that much time. It's dedicated, purposeful time, yes. It's not a LOT of time.
rayden54 Feb 17th 2012 7:08PM
@Devin
Actually, I think that "being concerned about progression" as a decent definition of hardcore. I see the distinction as being one of attitude and commitment not of skill.
On Illidan US, you can buy your way through Heroic Dragon Soul. On my server, the post progressed guild is only 6/8 H. Which one is more "hardcore" to you: the person with the bought and paid for gear, but with 8/8 H or the ones who spend night after night wiping on bosses?
SamLowry Feb 17th 2012 10:56PM
Devin, being able to come up with examples of what is or isn't "progression" is another definition of hardcore.
I've been in the LFR about a half-dozen times for each part and I have no idea who Morchock is. I'm so focused on pressing buttons and staying alive that all that "content" and "lore" stuff goes right past me.
So much for "seeing" the raid.
Shammytime Feb 17th 2012 12:16PM
In Wrath I was part of one of the rare progression based 10man guilds. We at one point were ranked #1 strict 10mans in Uldurar, but then we liked doing gdkps and lost that distinction but ended up in the top 10 causal 10 man guilds. We raided 8 hours a week and half the time it seemed like we were see what was the best way to kill the raid leader or mding the healers. It was a lax and fun environment. Could we get serious, yes, but raiding and working together were more the goal and progression just ended up being the outcome.
To us we were causal will a serious attitude, a happy mid point between striving to no ends to kill a boss first and wiping a few times and going to do something else.
Fun and friendships I think make the biggest difference between actual hardcore and casual. No matter how progression oriented a guild is, with a good environment a guild can have a casual attitude.
Sainthubbins Feb 17th 2012 12:35PM
I was in almost the exact same boat in Wrath. 10-man, cleared everything on normal with a few easier heroics thrown in (lootship, XT, Jaraxxus, etc.). We raided two nights a week, 4 hours a night. I fully considered us a casual raid, however. That has nothing to do with how much we played, or what we killed, but with our attitude. If you couldn't make it to raid, that was cool. Just tell someone. It was just pure fun, very little pressure. The divide between casual and hardcore, to me at least, is purely based on how you approach the time spent, and how you treat your fellow raiders.