The Care and Feeding of Warriors: Considering the Mists talent calculator
by Matthew Rossi 
Feb 18th 2012 at 8:00PM
We now have a new version of the Mists of Pandaria talent calculator to discuss. While we've covered the Mists talents and abilities before, every new iteration of the design process brings us new elements to consider. What we're effectively being presented is a snapshot of the future through the lens of current design, giving us a chance to muse about what warriors will be doing and not doing.
One of the things that jumps out immediately when considering the new talents is that the current capstones Bladestorm and Shockwave (as well as Avatar), which had been gained at level 90 before, are now level 60 abilities. I'm not actually surprised by this change, but I am pleased by it. Those are abilities people can currently get by around the end of Outland, so making them level 60 talents means they'll be useful for leveling characters again.
Let's go over what can be gleaned from the calculator update and discuss what it all means.
Able and willing
Looking first at the class-wide abilities, we see some interesting things. Incite is now a passive, class-wide ability, for starters. It's gained at level 64. I expect this is because just about every warrior spec at least considers Incite right now. The redesigned Mists version of Incite only provides the chance to guarantee a second critical and not the increased critical strike chance, which is a general trend in the redesign probably aimed at making crit from gear more attractive (which I find strange because it's already one of our best stats).
The Skull Banner ability (30% critical hit chance for 15 seconds) seems powerful enough that I have to believe it's a minute cooldown. Demoralizing Banner (10% less damage by all enemies with 30 yards of the banner for 15 seconds) and Mocking Banner (all enemies attack the warrior for 6 seconds; banner lasts for 30 seconds) are just revamped versions of Demoralizing Shout and Challenging Shout, and as such, I expect the ability can't be longer than a minute or they'll be fairly useless.
I suspect future design on this ability will actually break it up into an entirely new category of ability for warriors called banners, much in the same way that paladins have hands and blessings and seals. Warriors will use shouts for active abilities that generate rage and buff directly, and banners for passive buffs or static areas of effect. That way, abilities like Skull Banner can be uncoupled from Mocking Banner.
I really like how the level 1 abilities have been redesigned so that warriors just get Heroic Strike to start. No more clunky Strike ability you never use again. I also like that Enrage is now passive and class-wide and that it's been redesigned to increase rage generation. (We'll talk about how fury's mastery has been redesigned in the spec section.)
The talented
Talents have been shuffled around and redesigned. I mentioned moving the talents that had been at level 90 to level 60, which I find to be a very solid and positive change. You'll feel more like a warrior with one of those three big abilities and getting them at 60 will allow you to use them for 30 or so levels. I really, really want to play around with Bladestorm as fury or Shockwave in an arms PvP spec or see if Avatar's single-target DPS outweighs either. Avatar's clearing of movement-impairing effects makes me want to play around with it for tanking or fights like heroic Hagara where I can get snared. I hate getting snared.
The CC talents at level 45 have been redesigned, becoming less about CC and more about AoE shouts. One that baffles me is Staggering Shout, which will root all enemies in range if they're snared. I'm baffled by it because, if I'm not insane, I can't find Hamstring anywhere on this talent calculator. It's not a talent, it's not a class-wide ability, and it's not an arms-specific ability. This could be an oversight, or it could be a deliberate removal. Either way, I'm not sure how Staggering Shout's going to work if we can't actually snare anyone anymore. Piercing Howl and Disrupting Shout are unchanged from our last version of the talents.
The level 75 talents have a redesigned Safeguard that still doesn't seem worth spending a talent point on to me, but it's a lot closer than before. I'd consider taking it if I was expecting to off tank and wanted a way to ensure the other tank's survival. Vigilance, however, has become an active cooldown similar to Hand of Sacrifice (transfering 30% of damage taken by the target of Vig to you for 12 seconds as well as removing taunt's cooldown while it's active and enraging you when your target is attacked). Frankly, this seems a lot better to me than Safeguard. It comes down to whether or not you want to go to them or have their attacker come to you.
The third talent on this obviously tank-oriented tier is Mass Spell Reflection. Now, MSR looks awesome, but since so many boss attacks don't count as spells for SR's purposes, I'm not knocked out by it. Redefine a lot of those big AoE attacks so that Spell Reflection can protect the party or raid even if it doesn't actually reflect the damage back -- seriously, why is this so hard? Just make bosses immune to their own spells so SR can do something useful without killing the boss for you. Then Mass Spell Reflection will be awesome.
Talents have been shuffled around and redesigned. I mentioned moving the talents that had been at level 90 to level 60, which I find to be a very solid and positive change. You'll feel more like a warrior with one of those three big abilities and getting them at 60 will allow you to use them for 30 or so levels. I really, really want to play around with Bladestorm as fury or Shockwave in an arms PvP spec or see if Avatar's single-target DPS outweighs either. Avatar's clearing of movement-impairing effects makes me want to play around with it for tanking or fights like heroic Hagara where I can get snared. I hate getting snared.
The CC talents at level 45 have been redesigned, becoming less about CC and more about AoE shouts. One that baffles me is Staggering Shout, which will root all enemies in range if they're snared. I'm baffled by it because, if I'm not insane, I can't find Hamstring anywhere on this talent calculator. It's not a talent, it's not a class-wide ability, and it's not an arms-specific ability. This could be an oversight, or it could be a deliberate removal. Either way, I'm not sure how Staggering Shout's going to work if we can't actually snare anyone anymore. Piercing Howl and Disrupting Shout are unchanged from our last version of the talents.
The level 75 talents have a redesigned Safeguard that still doesn't seem worth spending a talent point on to me, but it's a lot closer than before. I'd consider taking it if I was expecting to off tank and wanted a way to ensure the other tank's survival. Vigilance, however, has become an active cooldown similar to Hand of Sacrifice (transfering 30% of damage taken by the target of Vig to you for 12 seconds as well as removing taunt's cooldown while it's active and enraging you when your target is attacked). Frankly, this seems a lot better to me than Safeguard. It comes down to whether or not you want to go to them or have their attacker come to you.
The third talent on this obviously tank-oriented tier is Mass Spell Reflection. Now, MSR looks awesome, but since so many boss attacks don't count as spells for SR's purposes, I'm not knocked out by it. Redefine a lot of those big AoE attacks so that Spell Reflection can protect the party or raid even if it doesn't actually reflect the damage back -- seriously, why is this so hard? Just make bosses immune to their own spells so SR can do something useful without killing the boss for you. Then Mass Spell Reflection will be awesome.
The level 90 talents are an interesting mixed bag. We have Deadly Calm (free heroic strikes and cleaves, 50% more damage for those HS/Cleaves), Bloodbath (think Super Deep Wounds, but actively triggered on a 1-minute cooldown) and Storm Bolt (turns Heroic Throw into a ranged stun and does an extra 300% weapon damage to anything permanently immune to stuns). These are interesting but hardly as good as they should be for their position on the talent tree, in my opinion.
Deadly Calm and Bloodbath are decent short DPS cooldowns; you'll macro whichever one you pick and forget it. Storm Bolt has some solid PvP and boss tanking potential, but a lot of the time, you're not going to want Heroic Throw to stun something you're trying to pull. (This of course depends on how good normal Throw is going to be for pulling.) I'd like to see some beefing up of these talents, but I expect we'll get them at about this level if they make it live.
All your specializations
There aren't a ton of surprises in the specialization-specific abilities. Slam is now instant and arms-only, which is nice for arms. Colossus Smash is not arms-only; fury gains access to it as well, just as arms and protection both share Blood and Thunder. Strikes of Opportunity and Critical Block are effectively unchanged, but fury's Unshackled Fury is redesigned so that while all warriors get Enrage passively, only fury gets the physical damage increase from it. Fury will start with Enrage boosting all physical damage dealt by 11%, with each additional point of mastery adding 1.4% damage.
This redesign balances out Single-Minded Fury and Titan's Grip in terms of the benefits they gain from mastery. We'll have to actually have a means to test this to see if it will make us like mastery or not, but it's definitely interesting. Arms and fury also both share Whirlwind as a specialization ability, most likely due to its no longer being assumed that arms will have Bladestorm and that fury won't.
Finally, protection gains Shield Barrier, a flat-out magic damage cooldown that reduces magical damage talent by 25% for 6 seconds. Like most mitigation in Mists so far, it costs a huge amount of rage, which is intended to serve as the limiting factor for its use. Since Shield Barrier is effectively Shield Block for magic, I hope it gains from Critical Block in the same fashion to make that 60 rage cost (the same as Shield Block) worthwhile.
That should cover the highlights of what's changed since the last talent calculator update. Some abilities are going to be on glyphs (Gag Order and Rude Interruption were mentioned as incoming glyphs), and there's always a chance things will change. Perhaps Hamstring will make a triumphant return? Who knows? I sure don't.
At the center of the fury of battle stand the warriors: protection, arms and fury. Check out more strategies and tips especially for warriors, from hot issues for today's warriors to Cataclysm 101 for DPS warriors and our guide to reputation gear for warriors.
Deadly Calm and Bloodbath are decent short DPS cooldowns; you'll macro whichever one you pick and forget it. Storm Bolt has some solid PvP and boss tanking potential, but a lot of the time, you're not going to want Heroic Throw to stun something you're trying to pull. (This of course depends on how good normal Throw is going to be for pulling.) I'd like to see some beefing up of these talents, but I expect we'll get them at about this level if they make it live.
All your specializations
There aren't a ton of surprises in the specialization-specific abilities. Slam is now instant and arms-only, which is nice for arms. Colossus Smash is not arms-only; fury gains access to it as well, just as arms and protection both share Blood and Thunder. Strikes of Opportunity and Critical Block are effectively unchanged, but fury's Unshackled Fury is redesigned so that while all warriors get Enrage passively, only fury gets the physical damage increase from it. Fury will start with Enrage boosting all physical damage dealt by 11%, with each additional point of mastery adding 1.4% damage.
This redesign balances out Single-Minded Fury and Titan's Grip in terms of the benefits they gain from mastery. We'll have to actually have a means to test this to see if it will make us like mastery or not, but it's definitely interesting. Arms and fury also both share Whirlwind as a specialization ability, most likely due to its no longer being assumed that arms will have Bladestorm and that fury won't.
Finally, protection gains Shield Barrier, a flat-out magic damage cooldown that reduces magical damage talent by 25% for 6 seconds. Like most mitigation in Mists so far, it costs a huge amount of rage, which is intended to serve as the limiting factor for its use. Since Shield Barrier is effectively Shield Block for magic, I hope it gains from Critical Block in the same fashion to make that 60 rage cost (the same as Shield Block) worthwhile.
That should cover the highlights of what's changed since the last talent calculator update. Some abilities are going to be on glyphs (Gag Order and Rude Interruption were mentioned as incoming glyphs), and there's always a chance things will change. Perhaps Hamstring will make a triumphant return? Who knows? I sure don't.
At the center of the fury of battle stand the warriors: protection, arms and fury. Check out more strategies and tips especially for warriors, from hot issues for today's warriors to Cataclysm 101 for DPS warriors and our guide to reputation gear for warriors.
Filed under: Warrior, Add-Ons, (Warrior) The Care and Feeding of Warriors, Mists of Pandaria
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Vorenos Feb 18th 2012 8:50PM
i am very excited about the prospect of some of these talents, but the lvl 90 talents are way too boring. while i hated the idea of losing bladestorm/devastate for leveling 85-90, it felt way more bad ass to have those as our last talents instead of those new options... hopefully it will change before it goes live.
Jordan Feb 18th 2012 10:03PM
Actually, and this is in reference to Spell Reflection, I think this little tiny bit would work well...
Go into the Hour of Twilight Dungeon. Last boss, time is JUUUUST right, and spell reflect either a smite or twilight blast... It doesn't "Reflect" the note I get is "Deflected" - not back at the boss, just not on me. I can see this becoming a better way of handling SR so that it's not doing crazy extra tank damage, while still being useful.
Wonloong Feb 18th 2012 9:05PM
"Slam is now instant and arms-only..."
This is excellent since my ping hovers between 180~200ms. That 0.5 second cast time on Slam feels like a second's worth of casting in some instance and in PVP, that can get very frustrating since everything moves so quickly, you tend to lose track of where your enemy is.
JattTheRogue Feb 18th 2012 9:56PM
"I'm baffled by it because, if I'm not insane, I can't find Hamstring anywhere on this talent calculator. It's not a talent, it's not a class-wide ability, and it's not an arms-specific ability."
I believe you are insane, sir. It's a level 36 class ability.
Jeff Feb 19th 2012 12:24AM
Well, in fairness, this WOULD be the first time he's gotten something completely and totally wrong through an outright failure to pay attention or actually properly research what he's talking about. Certainly hasn't ever happened before. Ever.
Maymer Feb 19th 2012 2:28AM
@ Jeff
.....*best Fry impersonation*
Can't tell if serious...or seriously trolling
Jeff Feb 19th 2012 3:02AM
The latter.
Rakan Feb 18th 2012 10:18PM
I hope we'll get one or two glyphs to bake the hamstring effect into some of the baseline abilities (slam/RB perhaps?)
Killik Feb 19th 2012 5:22AM
Although Hamstring *is* still in there, it would be interesting if we get a glyph that bakes in the Cripple effect to a commonly-used ability.
alapin Feb 19th 2012 6:39AM
I call getting a glyph to bake it into Thunder Clap for protection warriors.
Jeff Feb 18th 2012 10:51PM
I'm not sure if it's a NEW change, but I'm pretty excited that it appears that Deep Wounds is going to be applied by all Mortal Strike, Bloodthirst, and Devastate hits. No more having to apply Rend? Nice.
I'm not terribly thrilled, on the other hand, by Devastate now having a 4.5 second CD. I sort of like always having a button I can press, and I'm not sure how often it will be worth hitting Heroic Strike during gaps in the rotation, if I need to be banking rage for Shield Block or Shield Barrier.
Pyromelter Feb 19th 2012 2:10AM
"I sort of like always having a button I can press, and I'm not sure how often it will be worth hitting Heroic Strike during gaps in the rotation, if I need to be banking rage for Shield Block or Shield Barrier."
I'm guessing there are more changes coming, but if nothing changed at all, you could always take the level 90 talent that makes all your heroic strikes and cleaves free for 15 seconds at a time, once a minute.
My guess is the extra bleed damage will go to the dps'ers, and the tanks would take that one.
I really can't see that final tier being the same at release as it is now, it just doesn't feel right.
personkid Feb 18th 2012 11:17PM
Banner is going to have a non-trivial cooldown. One minute is far to short for the buffs that it gives. Consider the like ability Divine Guardian 20% damage reduction for 6 seconds to everyone in 30 yards of the pally, it has a 3 minute cooldown. While it prevents half the damage it lasts two and half times as long. Furthermore a 30% crit buff to all party members within 30 yards is exceedingly power, being trumped only by Time Warp or Bloodlust which have 10 minute debuffs and a 5 min cooldown.
Banner is going to have a long cooldown, between 3-5 minutes and my money is on the 5 minute mark.
Killik Feb 19th 2012 5:26AM
Agreed. I can only assume Matt didn't read the tooltips properly and assumed that the crit applied to the caster only, that the debuff didn't stack with Thunderclap and that, somehow, the taunt banner itself only lasted for 6 seconds.
This article feels a bit rushed, not up to the usual high standard.
alapin Feb 19th 2012 6:44AM
@ Kilik :: There is no cooldown listed on the ability for the talent previews, all it states are the three effects it can generate, nothing else.
Killik Feb 19th 2012 2:28PM
@alapin Correct. But the length of the beneficial effects is listed; from this we are attempting to infer the length of the cooldown. Matt estimated that this would be a relatively short length of time because he considers the buffs themselves to be underwhelming. Personkid and myself were disputing this assessment of the buffs' utility and theorising a longer cooldown on War Banner.
My own addition was that Matt probably had a very tight deadline on this one and didn't have the chance to really digest the talent tree changes. He is still one of my favourite WoW Insider writers.
Hope this has helped get you up to speed. In any case, it'll all doubtless change completely before MoP beta!
detailbear Feb 20th 2012 4:23PM
MMO Champions reports a 3 minute cooldown. I don't know where they're finding this info, but it's being repeated on other websites.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2652-Mists-of-Pandaria-Talent-Calculator-Feb-16-Update-Changes (last line)
Dennis Feb 18th 2012 11:57PM
I like the talent tree until we get to the level 75 talents. I group as either fury or arms spec, and having the choice of three tanking talents that won't make it to my action bars feels like a total waste. I'd hate to have to level and not feel that there's no useful talent for 30 levels.
Just for survivability it would be nice to have a run away choice at level 15. A shout (panicked scream) that slows all enemies in five yards 50% for 5 seconds and a 50% movement increase for 3 seconds. With a 5 min cooldown.
Jeff Feb 19th 2012 12:31AM
At 75, Safeguard and Vigilance could both be pretty handy talents to allow you to save the group once in a while - if the healer's getting chewed on, or the tank is about to die but your health is fine, that sort of thing. Kind of like Rallying Cry, which is a pretty great way for a DPS Warrior to be able to save the day. Honestly, we need people doing more of this kind of stuff. It won't increase your leet deeps, but you WILL be a rock star if you do it right.
The panicked scream ability is amusing, but really, really, really not Warrior-y. Heh.
Revynn Feb 19th 2012 11:02AM
- "The panicked scream ability is amusing, but really, really, really not Warrior-y."
It is if you play a Blood Elf or a Gnome.
. . . . zzzzzzziiiiiiiiiiiiNNNNNGGGGG!!!!!