3 things Warzones taught me to love about Battlegrounds
by Michael Gray 
Feb 20th 2012 at 7:00PM
That doesn't mean I've quit my time in WoW Battlegrounds. Not to offend any saber-jockeys out there, but the PvP in WoW is better. Don't get me wrong. I'm having a great time firing rockets and dodging laser swords, but WoW's PvP has been honed as a separate game style. Its balance and play is beautiful and elegant. I didn't even realize how true that was until I spent some time in SW:TOR's analogous group PvP area, called Warzones.
Let me put my money where my mouth is. This is a (small) list of things I've learned to love about Battlegrounds from doing Warzones.
You can click stuff
Have you ever been defending the flag, running the flag, or even existing inside a Battleground and clicked an attacking player? Actually, have you ever clicked anything in WoW? You know, just click the thing to target it. As you do.
You don't do that in SW:TOR. You're supposed to. The interface acts like you should be able to click opposing players. It seems like the thing to do. But clicking enemy players in SW:TOR is like trying to tightly grasp a well-greased weasel. Sure, the occasional slippery savant can pull the task off, but you're generally stuck with tabbing through targets.
You don't realize how basic and fundamental the ability to click on an opposing player is. It never crossed my mind until I was forced to tab target my enemies. I can't tell you how many times I've died trying to tab to the guy killing me. If I could click on him -- as you do for WoW -- it would never be an issue.
Lag is minimal
I recognize that SW:TOR is a newer game with so-called better graphics that requires a stronger computer, but my gaming box is relatively powerful. I play WoW in Ultra with no problems (though I do change some settings to provide me a better, unobstructed view). I've never had any level of graphics lag in WoW.
PvP in SW:TOR is like fighting an angry Microsoft PowerPoint presentation. The amount of graphics lag you suffer depends on the strength of your computer and how many players are clustered in one spot. Even the beefiest computer is going to hiccup amidst an 8-player huttball pileup.
For all that we like to criticize WoW's graphics, remember them for the gift that they are -- a smooth, unburdensome experience. Because Blizzard has kept its graphics reasonable, we can fight in the Battlegrounds without bringing out graphics to a weeping crawl.
I will never complain about crowd control again. I will never complain about rogues and stunlocks again. I will never complain about WoW's very few knockbacks again. Those days are behind me.
If you've not picked up SW:TOR to try the PvP yet, I can describe it for you fairly simply. Imagine you are a ping-pong ball. That's 90% of it. You're a ping-pong ball in the middle of a match. When you cross the net, though, you also get stunned. While getting knocked back. Sometimes when you're stunned and getting knocked back, you'll also get messed (kind of a different stun), just to make sure.
While I exaggerate minutely, I promise you that it's only minutely. The number of stuns, knockbacks, and other mini-CCs in SW:TOR is ridiculous. It's tempting to think that this introduces a level of skill into the game, but that's not the case. PvP becomes a matter of "Hit your stun, then mash damage and hope they die before you get stunned."
WoW's crowd control -- whether we're talking about stun, snares, or anything else -- is a rich tableau of abilities, all on very long timers. You get to use these abilities strategically. Playing WoW with appropriate crowd control is like a chess match. You hit your stun now; you won't have it in 45 seconds.
I will admit, this one's experiential. I've tried to convey the sense of spending 10 minutes either stunned or dead, but until you've PvPed in SW:TOR to experience it yourself, you won't believe me.
SW:TOR isn't all bad
There's a lot to recommend SW:TOR's PvP. It does have some novel game rules. But for all that SW:TOR has the benefit of hype, its PvP just doesn't match the elegance and refinement of WoW's. I enjoy it, but it makes me yearn for some time in the BGs.
Filed under: PvP
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Domintal Feb 20th 2012 7:18PM
I've said it before and I will say it now, PVP is very very balanced in WoW. People are always complaining left and right that it is not, but I have never seen any game that has PVP even -close- to having all the abilities and the balance that World of Warcraft has.
I never want GC to go, because he actually knows what he is doing. All those people out there that say they know better really don't. Even if they do they only know their own class.
duo_x5 Feb 20th 2012 7:45PM
I agree with you wholeheartedly. So many other games' spells and skills are so over the top it can be ridiculous. For me, Aion, Rift and Swtor, are games I wish I could add diminishing returns so I could hit the guy back atleast twice.
Luke Feb 21st 2012 12:58AM
SWTOR does have diminishing returns. They also have a PvP system that is elegant in it's own way. There is an entire system that is a diminishing return in its own right, you become immune to all CC, after you've been the target of such abilities, for a short time.
Don't mistake me, I love WoW PvP and I agree with the over all assessment of their systems. It's very smooth. SWTOR definitely has some growing to do but I think it has more potential in the long run.
redhotsaber Feb 21st 2012 1:48AM
"WoW's PvP has been honed as a separate game style. Its balance and play is beautiful and elegant"
Share the crack please. Remember that Iraqi general who said the Americans are not here, or something along those lines. Thats what this site is. I enjoyed WoW, don't know nothing bout SWTOR. But come on! seriously?! I understand that WoW is the hand that feeds But save a little bit of your dignity for when you get married..... jeeeez "Elegant"
Is there a little basket where you guys leave your keys and your integrity when you walk in the office?
Randolf Feb 21st 2012 2:30AM
@redhotsaber
I think he was more referring to amount of skill required. I have not played the pvp side of SWTOR but I am very knowledgeable of WoW pvp and I agree with him. You may see 20 guys ganging up one the healer or a big free for all on the flag but what I see is teamwork on both sides and actual strategy. That disc priest that just died? May not have died if your team had been protecting him/her. That holy paladin that will not die? He/she will if your team focus fires, this is coming from a holy paladin that can last quite a long time under the right circumstances. WoW pvp takes skill, and with that skill comes the elegance and beauty that the author was referring to.
Dragoniel Feb 21st 2012 5:16AM
Ah, so at least I'm not alone in this realization.
It's rather funny and sad at the same time, really. I hate all kinds of PvE, I don't like arena, I don't like battlegrounds and open world doesn't really exist in WoW outside Tol Barad and current content dailies area.
Howerver, what WoW has is a perfect combat system. So well done, that any other online games options just pales in comparison. To the point of comparison between computer and Arithmometer.
Possum Feb 21st 2012 6:51AM
@Dragoniel so you just..stand around attacking combat dummies all day?
duo_x5 Feb 21st 2012 6:37PM
@Luke Know what you may very well be right, but the issue as it stands for me is that those crowd controls seem to be pouring out of everything and everyone around me. Now to make sure I don't seem overly biased here, so far y highest character in Swtor is a lvl 43 sniper. A class that as far as I've seen is big on doing a whole lot of damage but not much else. For further clarification I play marksman, not sure if the other specs can offer more cc.
Just that for me there's no end to the mayhem of being stopped dead in your tracks and then just being dead period. Not sure how the DR's work in SwTor and I wouldnt mind if someone filled me in but I've yet to see them take affect.
But on the flip side it is good to have a breath of fresh air in a new game, I'll give it that. Huttball is very entertaining and new classes and all that to play around with.
Oh and btw my english is horrible sry if I confuse anyone =(.
Helston Feb 20th 2012 7:20PM
Do they have flag-based content that isn't a race to see who has the fatest connection when the flag is dropped? Because that would be something WoW could implement into WSG/Twin Peaks when someone drops the flag. Actually earning the flag return or pick-back-up instead of being lucky or unlucky.
Scott Feb 20th 2012 7:30PM
Huttball is the closest, and the joy there is that once you get the ball, you have a bright beam of light that's visible from the entire play area - you are IMMEDIATELY stunned/cc'ed, you pop your stun-breaker talent, you are then stunned AGAIN, and if you're lucky enough to get out of that one, it's darn near impossible to target a friendly player to throw the ball to - which is ostensibly the most important skill in the game. I have rarely seen a player manage to travel more than twenty yards or so carrying the ball and live.
Helston Feb 20th 2012 7:33PM
I shouldn't have made that comment so negative - I enjoy WoW PvP quite a bit. However, this is my biggest gripe in PvP. Everything else in the Capture the Flag maps works so well, except for this one little thing that can randomly reverse all of one team's hard work
exogenesis. Feb 20th 2012 7:44PM
I once managed to carry the ball all the way to the other end of the warzone, until I realised that I was hemmed in by walls and had to go through the mass of players in the middle to actually reach the other end properly.
And then I was stunlocked and promptly murdered...
jacksworth Feb 21st 2012 5:23AM
Umm, i played an operative, the WORST class to carry the ball. no mobility and terrible survival. And i regularly carried the ball all the way from the centre to the line.
And to answer Helston's question. In huttball, if you die with the ball and enemy are nearby, then it gets transferred to them. So, depending on the position and situation, sometimes its better to throw the ball to no one, resetting it, than to let them take it. If you are pretty sure you are about to die, that is, and dont have any targets to throw to.
Also, its very possible to intercept passes. Its not instant, the ball has travel time, and shows with a ring where it will land. So if you can predict a pass, you can run up and stun the intended target and 'catch' the ball yourself. Or, i'm not 100% sure, but i think if you get a closer position theres a chance you will intercept it also.
Hutball is a good BG. What spoils it is the horribly overpowered synergy some classes have with the layout. Ranged classes that stick to the upper bridges/levels are very hard to kill.
I would have liked to see the air vents not be so random. its extremely frustrating to lose any chance of catching up to a ball carrier if they get lucky and get launched the right way, but you get thrown back into the middle multiple times.
I would also change the 'Resolve' (Diminishing Returns) system. I think it has a good basis, but is flawed in other respects. Too often you can trinket a stun or mez and then immediately get caught in another full length CC. Also, snares, roots and knockbacks generate far too little Resolve, if any. I would like to see the resolve bar be an indication of the duration of the next CC on you. For example, if you get stunned, you get half resolve bar, and any CC after that has half duration or effect. So you could trinket the stun, and then be stunned again for half the duration. Also, they should add snares, roots and knockbacks to Resolve in this fashion. First knockback is full distance, second is half (or whatever value works out to be reasonable). This would be GLOBAL DR. So, you take a knockback, and then you get stunned, the stun is only half duration.
TonyKP Feb 21st 2012 3:54PM
I love the concept of the Resolve system but I'm not so keen on the implementation just yet. Needs tweaking to make it quicker to max out.
Other than the prevalence of CC BGs and WZs actually feel pretty similar to me aside from Huttball (which I love but which requires a higher level of coordination than the other WZs or any of the BGs). One good thing about WZs, though - no frost mages.
Scott Feb 20th 2012 7:25PM
I had to LoL when i saw this article up - i was just thinking about this today.
I never much cared for PvP in WoW - partly the player attitudes/mindset, partly the utter confusion and futility it seemed to engender.
Surprisingly, I am having lots of fun in SWTOR playing PvP. While i COMPLETELY agree with your points above (you forgot about half the classes having stealth, BTW), my reasons for liking SWTOR PvP seem to be:
1) Smaller Groups - I can't deal with the confusion of 25 players on both sides in a WoW BG
2) Rewards - It's a little thing, but i LIKE the daily "win a warzone" quest because i get a nice chunk of XP and Credits for it, over and above the reward for winning in the first place.
Admittedly, i never really PvPed in WoW while i leveled, but i'm finding it a good supplement to questing in SWTOR (when you're leveling six toons, the non-class quests get stale fast).
The main difference for me, as a pre-50 character in SWTOR, is that PvP is not completely divorced from PvE - WoW never really tried to balance the two sides of the game. If you PvP, you dam well better get gear and skills that have NOTHING to do with PvE, and if you raid, you better NOT show up in PvP gear. I have always hated that.
jonas Feb 20th 2012 7:42PM
the PvP grind at level 50 is pretty brutal :( If you want the best gear, be prepared to put hundreds of hours into grinding to valour level 60 or whatever. I lost all interest in the PvP at 50 :(
littlelingos Feb 20th 2012 10:41PM
There are several things between the two games that really made me think about which one I like more.
First the bolster buff in SW:TOR is incredible in lower level WZs. My biggest gripe about wow pvp has always been heirlooms in pvp. I can't stand facing twinks in pvp because the match-up is completely unfair. Bolster allows there to be a feeling of equality throughout the match, even when it's 3 on 1 I can still survive mildly long. While in wow its no contest.
The next thing I liked about SW:TOR is that the WZs (from what I've played) the WZs are small unlike some of the BGs in WoW, it made me feel like I was in the action more often unlike in WoW where if your team doesn't have that GY yet your back to square one.
The thing I like most about WoW pvp is the cross-realm mechanic because my server is dominated by Republicans (if thats what they're called, not quite sure), so we generally lose WZs but all in all I think that both pvp systems are equally enjoyable, and I'm really interested to see what happens with SW:TOR's pvp in the future.
exogenesis. Feb 20th 2012 7:28PM
All I want is some Hutt-ball-style narration in a new WoW battleground for Mists.
Then I will be very happy.
exogenesis. Feb 20th 2012 7:31PM
Oh, yes, and some tinkering so that everyone has the same base stats and it's not a mass of oneshotting like it is right now.
RogueJedi86 Feb 20th 2012 7:47PM
God I love the Huttball announcer. The voice is half the reason I love Huttball so much. I think Steve Blum is having the time of his freaking life in that role. I love lines like "And no kicking--Hutts don't have feet! Show our sponsor the respect he deserves!" And anything where he insults one of the teams for failure. "Frogdog pass goes nowhere fast!", chuckling as he says it, like he's mocking the player who failed.
And when one team is losing badly(ie the enemy scores twice in a couple minutes), he yells(as example) "Looks like the Rotworms have a new strategy: Let the Frogdogs win!".
Did I mention I love that announcer?
To tie it to WoW, imagine a silly Gnome/Goblin themed battleground, with some crazy gnome and/or goblin(maybe a pair) giving over the top commentary on everything that happens.