Drama Mamas: Choosing between preferred class and raid leader
by Robin Torres 
Feb 20th 2012 at 9:00AM
Happy Presidents' Day, if you are in the United States! Otherwise, happy Monday.
We are getting in letters for an all-new results edition of Drama Mamas, but we could still use some more. If you have written the Drama Mamas and we have answered you in print, please send us an email at robin@wowinsider.com. We will compile the responses in a future column, once we get enough of them.
What's up Drama Mamas?!
Today I come with a problem of sorts... I'm part of this guild where we were all pretty close and get along great, we have been that way throughout cataclysm and I feel sorta connected to these folks.
Now about a month or so ago a few of our core raid members that were originally on the team I was part of quit the game. That caused a rift in our guild and the leader of our second raid team stepped up to the plate and now leads our core group (as well as the guild but that's a different story). While we were trying to figure out who makes the cut for our first raid group we held try outs of sorts and in the group was myself and the rogue from the second group (we both play rogues so we needed to see who got the spot). Well I was beaten by the rogue of the second group by a slim margin so the leader decided to take him on as a regular.
Ever since then, it seems like the people who were my friends and guild mates started to move ahead and I was left to settle on the back burner. The guild leader suggested I start up a second group since he knew how much I loved to raid with them and since he felt bad that I wasn't part of the action. Sadly, I had to switch to tanking the second group on my paladin because I wasn't performing as well leading while trying to play a dps role (also I had a real life friend who switched to my server with her rogue so it gave me another reason to change roles, we tried two rogues but I just couldn't handle having both of us fighting for the top thanks to my competitive nature). I didn't mind as much but it isn't the same since it was on my rogue. Even though I'm the leader of this second group (made mostly of pugs with the occasional alt) I still feel the urge to play the character that I love and to do what I loved.
I still feel alienated from the few who I was friends with and I miss the old team we had during the start of the expansion, but being the leader of this group, I feel as if I have to stay with them. I'm not sure whether I should stay with this rag tag group or find somewhere where I can start fresh and continue playing what I love. I mentioned to my guild about leaving on only my main but both they and I know my group would suffer. I don't feel much kinship with these new people as much as I did with my old team in fact, one of my old teammates switched over to the alliance because he felt the same way I did (he stopped raiding after our core group fell apart). I'm at a dilemma, leave my guild and start fresh, but lose my chance to lead, or stay and feel like an outsider.
Sincerely; shaftedLeader
Drama Mama Lisa: Welcome to the sea of nostalgia and regret. If you step over the breakers gently lapping at your feet, you'll soon find yourself precariously balanced on a lone stepping stone, stranded by the impossibly slick moss clinging to every rocky memory poking above the surface. There's no going forward, and there's no going back. It's just you and the occasional gull swooping down to callously peck at your feet -- but the water, oh, the water ... such lovely visions just under the surface, flickering in the sunlight ... You could reach out and touch them if only you weren't for some reason afraid to slide down into the water ...Feel familiar?
Wow, that was quite a windup -- but ah, the bittersweet pangs of nostalgia. There's no way back to what you had, Shafted. That beautiful synergy of your original group? It's gone, trickled downstream and lost in the sea of memories. The first raid group has moved on -- and while they like you well enough, they don't have a place for you. In the meantime, you're clinging to the stepping stone just above those waters without regard for the green fields awaiting you back on shore.
Go back to dry land, Shafted. The first ship has sailed, and the second ship deserves a captain whose heart is in the game. Rally your friend and look for a new guild home.
The grass really is greener back on the shore.
Drama Mama Robin: Shafted ... actually, I have a hard time calling you Shafted. How were you shafted? By people leaving because they wanted to? By not making the primary team after what seemed like a fair trial? By your choice to play your tank instead of your rogue? I don't get it. I do get your conundrum, though, and I understand your feelings about it.I feel awfully sorry for your raid group. You call them a rag-tag team and say you feel no kinship with them. They are already suffering from your attitude. It's up to you as their leader to create a positive atmosphere. Take advice from Wilson on House by finding common likes and dislikes. Your companions are only as boring as your lack of effort to get to know them.
But this may be a moot point. You need to decide which you prefer, playing your rogue or leading a raid. If being raid leader is the most important to you, then stay where you are and be happy with your decision. You could even try practicing leading while playing your rogue until you get it right and have the best of both worlds. When I say to be happy, I mean to stop questioning your decision and kvetching about it. If you can't, then you made the wrong choice.
If you choose playing your rogue -- and it sounds like that is your preference already -- I think you have two choices. You can ask the main raid leader if you can be rotated in on your rogue, or you could take Lisa's advice and search for greener pastures.
Dodge the drama and become that player everyone wants in their group with a little help and insight from the Drama Mamas. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at robin@wowinsider.com. Read Robin's section of this post on how to get your letter answered and please remember that we cannot answer privately.Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Noyou Feb 20th 2012 9:10AM
While it's sad that you lost the spot and feel like you are on the outs, you owe it to whatever team you find yourself on, your best effort. I do not think it is fair though, for them to ask you to change your class AND be the #2 raid leader. If they can't appreciate your services, do as Lisa said, look for another guild with your friend or start your own. Do not leech any old members, unless they inquire. That would cause enough drama for another letter :) Best of luck.
Sorro Feb 21st 2012 11:03AM
I don't get the original issue. Why can there only be one rogue? Heck, my 10-man had 3 mages at one point and we did just fine.
And leading a raid as a DPS is much easier than tanking and raid-leading. Tanks have enough to deal with without telling everyone else what to do.
Luke Feb 28th 2012 4:53AM
@Sorro
If we were talking about ranged DPS like a mage or hunter, they have it much easier when it comes to multitasking. But the letter writer in this article is a Rogue, and their playstyle makes it much more difficult to be competitive and raid lead. Anyone who tanks on a regular basis knows better how to juggle those two responsibilities and it's far easier to tank and raid lead.
Which brings us to the other answer to your question. In the letter "Shafted" explains that he/she brought in a friend who is a Rogue and that their competitive nature makes this difficult.
nosoup4u76 Feb 20th 2012 9:19AM
Dear Writer,
Gotta go with Robin here. Make up your mind what you want and go for it. Yes, it sucks that you can't get the old group back together, but stuff happens. It also sounds like you could continue to rogue it up as the leader of the second group, but you're standing in your own way their with focusing on the rogue vs rogue DPS competition with your friend.
Honestly, that says to me that you're not a "good" raid leader. Raid leaders, especially in guild, are supposed to put the raid first. If you can't do that, then you should look for someone else to hold the reigns. Heck, even if you're not the RL, you shouldn't be tunnel-visioning topping the DPS charts. Is DPS important? Sure. Just not at the exclusion of all else.
Good luck mate, and happy hunting whichever way you decide.
eel5pe Feb 20th 2012 9:36AM
@Lisa: that was a heck of a mixed metaphor at the end there. hats off.
In any case, I'm curious why "Shafted" can raid lead better as a tank than as a DPS? As a DPS I can do my rotation blind-folded, upside-down, one hand tied behind my back and the other wielding a cafeteria ladle, and an angry honey badger stuffed down my pants. There's a reason I started raid leading as a retadin. As a tank though you have to worry about positioning, keeping debuffs up, taunt switches, cooldowns, etc etc etc. I've known successful tank raid leaders (and I raid lead as holy now) but I can definitely attest that it's more difficult.
My suspicion is that his improvement in leading, rather than stemming from his class and role change, was more from gaining experience and getting better at multitasking. There's also a possibility that he struggled earlier with a succession of bad tanks, which may have made it look like he wasn't leading well when the actual problem was good ol' incompetence. If he switches to his rogue he might find it doesn't go as disastrously as before.
My other piece of advice is more personal: don't force yourself to do something long-term that you dislike in an activity that's supposed to be your source of relaxation. Yeah yeah, needs of the many, but the needs of the many won't be served very well if you burn yourself out doing a job you dislike. Since your group is mostly PuGs already, ask the regulars if they'd be okay if you go back to your rogue, maybe on a probationary basis. I bet they won't care that much, and unlike previous tiers having extra melee in DS doesn't gimp you at all. If your server is populated enough to PuG DS there's got to be at least one tank out there who wants to prove his chops and will gladly take your old spot.
Good Luck! As someone who also started a raid from scratch I can tell you it's really trying sometimes, but really rewarding too.
"just couldn't handle having both of us fighting for the top thanks to my competitive nature"- you mean both of you can't work on the legendary at the same time ;)
Orrine Feb 20th 2012 10:12AM
It's easier for me to tank since I don't have rotations and priorities: all I have to worry about is positioning, debuffs, taunting and cooldowns.
As dps I squeeze every ounce of damage I can master and it takes more concentration. It may be that Shafted plays the game just the way I do.
Oteo Feb 20th 2012 10:24AM
The rogue rotation might be significantly easier than a retadin, if the retadin rotation is as faceroll as it used to be...
eel5pe Feb 20th 2012 11:05AM
Yeah that's true, different people find different tasks more difficult. Our excellent resto druid hates DPSing for example, and I bet would have trouble breaking 20k even in DS-level gear. My advice for a lot of people is to get an addon- you'll never reach your FULL dps potential that way, but it'll help if you're below-average
@Orrine: you have to maximize DPS as a tank too! At least on H Ultraxion... in any case "shafted" makes it pretty clear in his letter he tries really hard to maximize DPS, so maybe it requires a lot of focus for him. But I play the game the same way too! Pre-potting, multi-dotting, timing trinket procs, blahblah... for me it just takes a lot less concentration than healing.
@Oteo: I think you meant to type harder, but yeah retadin is still pretty easy, harder than say arcane or surv but definitely easier than say feral or fire. I honestly have no idea how hard rogue-ing is.
Pyromelter Feb 20th 2012 11:59AM
This might end up being somewhat blasphemous, but I have found that tanking ends up taking less overall brianpower versus raid leading, in terms of multitasking the raid. The raid leader has certain responsibilities like deciding who gets a brezz, calling things out on vent, calling for wipes, things like that. As a tank, you're generally responsible for 1 thing at a time, either positioning, a taunt, your health for a cooldown, or an interrupt. At most you are doing 2 at the same time, maybe a personal cooldown while kiting. You'll rarely ever need to worry about positioning while interrupting, for example. In other words, while your job is important, and a screw-up will lead to a wipe, you generally only have one thing to do at a time. It does get more complicated on heroic modes, but not overly so.
DPS, on the other hand, requires strict timing and precision, and tracking of multiple things such as buffs, debuffs, procs, DOTs, DPS cooldowns, mana/energy regen cooldowns, as well as switching targets, switching between AoE and single target rotations. The difference between a top fire mage and a mediocre one can simply be a matter of tracking dots most effectively and timing a combustion during an add phase.
What I'm saying is that while tanking overall is the more important job, tanks generally have less to think about during the battle, focusing on one or two things, versus dps who, if they are min/maxing, have much more on their screen they are looking at. This frees up brain space for multitasking things like raid leading, deciding who gets brezzes, calling for wipes, etc.
Ragen Feb 20th 2012 1:53PM
Tanking to me is a role that allows for easy leadership.
Once you get to a comfortable level of threat, you can lay off the hard rotation (If you so choose, and dependent on the current situation of course) and go with an increased survival rotation, which to be honest, can be simple most of the time.
With DPS, you are bound every second to commit as much effort as you can for the entire duration of the fight. Even knowing your spec top to bottom, a player who is doing call outs as a DPS is making a risk in losing seconds of time making sure situations go smoothly. It is doable though.
On Topic,
I think it's time for ShaftedLeader to move on. Attempting to stay with those memories will be a miserable experience for all those involved, as the attitude displayed, while valid and understandable, is detrimental to the raid's health.
The green shoreline awaits.
DragonFireKai Feb 20th 2012 6:31PM
@Orrine
A tank who doesn't maximize their rotation every bit as much as a DPS is a tank who is ignoring an important aspect of their job as a tank. A tank who prioritizes his rotation well can often push above 20k DPS on encounters, as opposed to the lazier tanks who languish at sub 10k. And that's not through compromising your survivability, it's simply a matter of pushing buttons better. What would you say to a DPs who was leaving 10k DPS on the table because they didn't feel like paying attention to their rotation.
Rajah Feb 20th 2012 7:54PM
I can't imagine trying to raid lead while also maintaining my best DPS performance as a rogue. With their quick GCD and rapid energy regeneration, it's a very fast-paced class to play, demanding close concentration. Positioning is crucial and highly dynamic, both to make full use of rogue abilities and to avoid taking unnecessary damage. It's worth noting that the rogue is the only class that spends virtually all of its time within melee range of the boss while wearing less than mail armor. The class is just not very well suited to someone simultaneously keeping the big picture that a good raid leader must maintain. I understand Shafted perfectly when (s)he talks about needing to switch to tanking to lead a raid instead of staying on the rogue. I'm not saying that it's impossible to do both, only that I can appreciate the difficulty. Anyone who can play a rogue well and lead a raid at the same time, my hat is off to you.
Nina Katarina Feb 20th 2012 9:37AM
Be honest - how much of that regret on not playing your rogue is regret at not working on the legendary? If there was a legendary tanking sword or shield in this patch, would you be happy to play your paladin? Is part of the 'shafted' that you feel the feeling of watching the guy who beat you out for your spot and your friend who switched servers get closer to an awesome weapon?
Dawts Feb 20th 2012 10:46AM
I'm inclined to agree. I'm a Guild leader who organizes our core raid group and RBG group and I actively raid lead. I don't lead the rateds, but that isn't relevant. I see no reason why you can't raid lead on your rogue unless you choose not to.
tl;dr you're not playing on your rogue because you choose not to, nobody is shafting you except yourself.
Spellotape Feb 20th 2012 6:33PM
Regardless of legenadaries, most people like to play their main above all else - if this player was a hunter they would still feel bad about not being able to play a hunter. It's quite ungenerous to make an assumption like this.
Sinthar Feb 20th 2012 11:01AM
Erm to me the solution would be relatively straight forward, although a little painful.
Take your main (your rogue), and find a raid guild for him. Leave your other toon (pally) in guild to lead the alt raid. Make sure you can commit to both the new guild and old guild commitments. Build a new wow life for that rogue.
terph Feb 20th 2012 3:20PM
Meh. Takes too much time to be in two raid guilds. My guild even has a rule against it. It's too much time commitment and too much strain. Unless both groups are extremely casual, you will be burnt out in no time.
mr.e81 Feb 20th 2012 11:35AM
So my advice is to either leave the guild you are a part of and start fresh if you feel like your role as a raid leader is something that you are not willing to work on or reach out to what you have and get to know them. Shoot, its really the camaraderie with accomplishment that you miss, not the players that left WoW or the #1 raid group of your guild. There is hope with what you have. For Example: Some of my guildmate's brothers created a raid group for one of my realms top raiding guilds that has currenty out-progressed the guild's primary raiding team because they took the time to build a team up out of nothing.
Pyromelter Feb 20th 2012 11:46AM
I think the Mamas have this one nailed down. Once the original raid team broke apart, the reason for your kinship and friendship seems to have fallen by the wayside. I think people tend to stay in guilds because of a sense of loyalty, as well as inertia. But if you play the game to raid on your rogue, and you can't do that in your current guild, and your current guild doesn't really hold much sway over you in terms of friends/relationship, then it's time for an amicable breakup. Something like this:
"Guild, let's talk. I know we've been together for sometime, and we had a lot of fun. At first, there was a lot of passion and it was all sex and gravy. I did it from behind, and you rewarded me with some very nice pointy sticks. But it seems over time our relationship has run dry, like a desert river in a first world country. And I'm standing downstream, and I'm thirsty. Thirsty for the blood of dragons dripping off my pointy stick. So I'm out" /vanish
Yeah, that's how it would happen.
Khirsah Feb 20th 2012 9:56PM
Pyromelter, I don't know if you're a guy or a girl, and I don't care. I would date you just for the break-up speech.