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2-20-2012 @ 9:36AM
@Lisa: that was a heck of a mixed metaphor at the end there. hats off.In any case, I'm curious why "Shafted" can raid lead better as a tank than as a DPS? As a DPS I can do my rotation blind-folded, upside-down, one hand tied behind my back and the other wielding a cafeteria ladle, and an angry honey badger stuffed down my pants. There's a reason I started raid leading as a retadin. As a tank though you have to worry about positioning, keeping debuffs up, taunt switches, cooldowns, etc etc etc. I've known successful tank raid leaders (and I raid lead as holy now) but I can definitely attest that it's more difficult. My suspicion is that his improvement in leading, rather than stemming from his class and role change, was more from gaining experience and getting better at multitasking. There's also a possibility that he struggled earlier with a succession of bad tanks, which may have made it look like he wasn't leading well when the actual problem was good ol' incompetence. If he switches to his rogue he might find it doesn't go as disastrously as before. My other piece of advice is more personal: don't force yourself to do something long-term that you dislike in an activity that's supposed to be your source of relaxation. Yeah yeah, needs of the many, but the needs of the many won't be served very well if you burn yourself out doing a job you dislike. Since your group is mostly PuGs already, ask the regulars if they'd be okay if you go back to your rogue, maybe on a probationary basis. I bet they won't care that much, and unlike previous tiers having extra melee in DS doesn't gimp you at all. If your server is populated enough to PuG DS there's got to be at least one tank out there who wants to prove his chops and will gladly take your old spot. Good Luck! As someone who also started a raid from scratch I can tell you it's really trying sometimes, but really rewarding too."just couldn't handle having both of us fighting for the top thanks to my competitive nature"- you mean both of you can't work on the legendary at the same time ;)
2-20-2012 @ 10:12AM
It's easier for me to tank since I don't have rotations and priorities: all I have to worry about is positioning, debuffs, taunting and cooldowns.As dps I squeeze every ounce of damage I can master and it takes more concentration. It may be that Shafted plays the game just the way I do.
2-20-2012 @ 10:24AM
The rogue rotation might be significantly easier than a retadin, if the retadin rotation is as faceroll as it used to be...
2-20-2012 @ 11:05AM
Yeah that's true, different people find different tasks more difficult. Our excellent resto druid hates DPSing for example, and I bet would have trouble breaking 20k even in DS-level gear. My advice for a lot of people is to get an addon- you'll never reach your FULL dps potential that way, but it'll help if you're below-average@Orrine: you have to maximize DPS as a tank too! At least on H Ultraxion... in any case "shafted" makes it pretty clear in his letter he tries really hard to maximize DPS, so maybe it requires a lot of focus for him. But I play the game the same way too! Pre-potting, multi-dotting, timing trinket procs, blahblah... for me it just takes a lot less concentration than healing.@Oteo: I think you meant to type harder, but yeah retadin is still pretty easy, harder than say arcane or surv but definitely easier than say feral or fire. I honestly have no idea how hard rogue-ing is.
2-20-2012 @ 11:59AM
This might end up being somewhat blasphemous, but I have found that tanking ends up taking less overall brianpower versus raid leading, in terms of multitasking the raid. The raid leader has certain responsibilities like deciding who gets a brezz, calling things out on vent, calling for wipes, things like that. As a tank, you're generally responsible for 1 thing at a time, either positioning, a taunt, your health for a cooldown, or an interrupt. At most you are doing 2 at the same time, maybe a personal cooldown while kiting. You'll rarely ever need to worry about positioning while interrupting, for example. In other words, while your job is important, and a screw-up will lead to a wipe, you generally only have one thing to do at a time. It does get more complicated on heroic modes, but not overly so.DPS, on the other hand, requires strict timing and precision, and tracking of multiple things such as buffs, debuffs, procs, DOTs, DPS cooldowns, mana/energy regen cooldowns, as well as switching targets, switching between AoE and single target rotations. The difference between a top fire mage and a mediocre one can simply be a matter of tracking dots most effectively and timing a combustion during an add phase.What I'm saying is that while tanking overall is the more important job, tanks generally have less to think about during the battle, focusing on one or two things, versus dps who, if they are min/maxing, have much more on their screen they are looking at. This frees up brain space for multitasking things like raid leading, deciding who gets brezzes, calling for wipes, etc.
2-20-2012 @ 1:53PM
Tanking to me is a role that allows for easy leadership.Once you get to a comfortable level of threat, you can lay off the hard rotation (If you so choose, and dependent on the current situation of course) and go with an increased survival rotation, which to be honest, can be simple most of the time.With DPS, you are bound every second to commit as much effort as you can for the entire duration of the fight. Even knowing your spec top to bottom, a player who is doing call outs as a DPS is making a risk in losing seconds of time making sure situations go smoothly. It is doable though.On Topic,I think it's time for ShaftedLeader to move on. Attempting to stay with those memories will be a miserable experience for all those involved, as the attitude displayed, while valid and understandable, is detrimental to the raid's health.The green shoreline awaits.
2-20-2012 @ 6:31PM
@OrrineA tank who doesn't maximize their rotation every bit as much as a DPS is a tank who is ignoring an important aspect of their job as a tank. A tank who prioritizes his rotation well can often push above 20k DPS on encounters, as opposed to the lazier tanks who languish at sub 10k. And that's not through compromising your survivability, it's simply a matter of pushing buttons better. What would you say to a DPs who was leaving 10k DPS on the table because they didn't feel like paying attention to their rotation.
2-20-2012 @ 7:54PM
I can't imagine trying to raid lead while also maintaining my best DPS performance as a rogue. With their quick GCD and rapid energy regeneration, it's a very fast-paced class to play, demanding close concentration. Positioning is crucial and highly dynamic, both to make full use of rogue abilities and to avoid taking unnecessary damage. It's worth noting that the rogue is the only class that spends virtually all of its time within melee range of the boss while wearing less than mail armor. The class is just not very well suited to someone simultaneously keeping the big picture that a good raid leader must maintain. I understand Shafted perfectly when (s)he talks about needing to switch to tanking to lead a raid instead of staying on the rogue. I'm not saying that it's impossible to do both, only that I can appreciate the difficulty. Anyone who can play a rogue well and lead a raid at the same time, my hat is off to you.
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