Officers' Quarters: Should Blizzard hold a guild summit?
by Scott Andrews 
Feb 20th 2012 at 12:00PM
I'm not an Old Republic player, but one thing I appreciate about the game is BioWare's active approach to supporting guilds. During the game's development, BioWare offered a pre-launch guild registration and the ability to test the game with guildmates. Now the company has announced a weekend-long summit where guild leaders can meet and discuss the game with BioWare staff.
I've always thought Blizzard could do more to support guild officers. Thus, when I first saw that article on Massively, I was happy to see BioWare taking steps toward that end. Then I read the comments below it, and I realized that not everyone feels the same way I do. Should Blizzard institute its own guild summit? Let's look at both sides of the argument.
The threat of influence
The argument brought up by those opposed to the summit is that guild leaders -- and especially the leaders of the largest guilds -- are usually raiders. Allowing them this type of access may give raiders an undue influence on the future development of the game.
For one, I don't think it's actually true that most guild leaders are raiders. The statistical evidence hasn't been gathered, but based on what I've seen in WoW, I'd be willing to bet that nonraiding guild leaders outnumber raiding guild leaders by two to one or more. Second, I'd also wager that the more players a guild has on its roster, the more likely it is to be a social guild. Guilds that focus solely on raiding tend toward a leaner roster.
Certainly it would be unfortunate for Blizzard or any other MMO developer to decide that what's best for a small handful of guilds would be best for everyone. However, I think the days of MMOs catering to elite raiding guilds are over.
For good or ill, Blizzard has realized that designing WoW for the masses rather than the few is a better business model. It's glaringly apparent when you compare the accessibility of vanilla's Naxxramas or The Burning Crusades's Sunwell Plateau to Raid Finder Dragon Soul runs.
The paranoia that people express when they hear about devs meeting with guild leaders is a remnant of an earlier age in MMOs. We could see smaller niche titles bring back that attitude in the future, but a game that costs as much to develop and operate as WoW or TOR simply can't afford it in the current market.
The benefits of a summit
Few players are more in touch with the current opinions, attitudes, and preferences of the WoW community than guild officers. We hear the excitement from our members and see the increased activity when they are happy with the game. Conversely, we hear the complaints and all the reasons they give for no longer logging in when they are bored with a lack of new content or upset with changes. We see our guilds flourish or wither based on these inclinations, so we pay close attention to them.
Thus, Blizzard could benefit from a greater degree of communication with us. It's likely that Blizzard does speak privately with select guild officers. It's only smart for the company to do so. But such interaction isn't made public, so the perception is that Blizzard doesn't seek out this feedback.
BlizzCon has always been Blizzard's largest public interaction between the company's staff and the community. However, BlizzCon is more like a giant party. It's hardly the focused, intimate venue that BioWare is offering.
In light of this year's BlizzCon's cancellation, a much smaller event focused purely on discussion among guild leaders and developers could be a way for Blizzard to engage with the community in a focused setting without impacting their 2012 development schedule. Also, by moving such talks into a more open forum such as a summit, the risk of a few select guild leaders' unfairly influencing the game would actually be reduced.
What do you think? Tell us below!
/salute
Officers' Quarters keeps your guild leadership on track to cope with sticky situations such as members turned poachers or the return of an ex-guild leader and looking forward to what guilds need in Mists of Pandaria. Send your own guild-related questions and suggestions to scott@wowinsider.com.
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
varzeus Feb 20th 2012 12:17PM
Guild summit. What an awesome idea! To share ideas, collaborate, and exchanging...isn't that how most great idea comes from? I used to be a raider since vanilla up to early part of Cata. However as the season passed, I tend to enjoy the game more casually now and our guild stopped raiding--we now use LFR. It's not the same cup of tea, but it's still tea. Thanks for the post! www.GUILDETA.com
Scott Feb 20th 2012 12:18PM
If and when BlizzCon returns, they should just set aside a block of tickets (or have an extra 500 or so) and invite in some of the top guild leaders, players, bloggers, etc to have some focus groups and town halls about the game and the direction it is going. They could do this the day before or after the show in the smaller conference rooms in the convention center or even on the Blizzard campus, but getting (and listening to) input from beyond the world top-10 could have some long lasting positive effects on development and player retention.
Bril Feb 20th 2012 12:19PM
Up until patch 4.3, Cata very much catered to the hardcore raiding crowd. Especially in the starting zones. The play experience going into Hyjal in ICC gear is vastly easier than dinging 80 in Sholozar and heading to Cata in underpowered quest greens/blues.
A million lost subs speaks volumes.
A Bear Feb 20th 2012 12:31PM
I seriously doubt that was the reason for the lost subs. I leveled through it in quest blues and greens and it wasn't very challenging. I think the reason was the old car they gave us with Cata. They just painted it new and gave it a cassette player, but it was still the same old car.
I hope MOP will change things. I'm still subbed, but I'm no longer playing. I'm only subbed to keep my MOP names.
Bapo Feb 20th 2012 1:05PM
I still don't get the hubub about Hyjal and what not. Yes, everything will be easier when you're in end game gear, but at the same time, I have toons who leveled through cata content (or leveling through it) without icc gear (or Frost badge gear for that matter) at all and I've only had issues via getting ganked.
The other issue is that you're going from a lvl 76(?) zone, to a zone tailored for people in atleast Storm Peaks / Icecrown quest gear or better, so the difficulty is definitely going to spike upwards.
To also say that all of those subs were lost due to Hyjal and Vashj'ir (ok, Vashj did suck) is just plain stupid.
eel5pe Feb 20th 2012 2:05PM
Look, the casuals think that the drop in subscriptions was because they weren't catered to and the hardcores think that the drop in subscriptions was because they weren't catered to. Personally I've seen both types of players quit in Cata. Make broad overarching statements is stupid.
(trying to decide of "Making broad overarching statements is stupid" is a broad overarching statement")
JattTheRogue Feb 21st 2012 12:09AM
I've leveled through the Cata zones 5 times. Once on my main (rogue, which is probably obvious from my name) in ICC gear. Once on my DK with some raiding gear, but mostly from stuff lower than ICC. Once on an ele Shaman with even lower gear than that, but still better than level 80 quest greens. And then twice more, once with a boomkin and once with a mage, both going straight from questing in Northrend to Cata zones when I hit 80. I think I did Hyjal three times and Vashjir twice (it may be four and one, but I did both zones with a level 80 character). I had no problems or issues whatsoever on any of my characters going into a Cata starting zone. In fact, with my two or three most geared toons, it was actually easy, and it was in no way difficult with my quest-green-and-blue-geared mage and druid. I highly doubt the leveling experience was what drove most subscribers away.
ireland.greg Feb 21st 2012 11:25AM
In the lull between ICC and Cata launch i took an 8 month break. sometime during that period my account was hacked and I eventually bought cata in january and resubbed to find all my characters pretty much naked except for my druid who still had some feral gear. I levelled all 5 of my 80's to 85 with no issues. my hunter in particular i was pretty worried about but with a boe green bow and a set of legs and gloves off the auction house, i set off into Hyjal and started questing. It took a while to kill the mobs in the beginning and i had to play rather carefully but hey i was practically naked and made it through the zone. I highly doubt that this is an indication of the "difficulty" you are talking about forcing people to quit.
Marathal Feb 20th 2012 12:40PM
I think it may depend on the server also. We are not top 25 progression server, more of a social, casual with some progression guilds. My server has a few guilds with 500+ members, if you go by the armory, however, I see some names of players in a few that I know have not logged into the game in months. I am sure you could have a guild with 800 members, but in reality it may only be 150 players with Alt's and who knows how many are truely active. Anyway, I do agree that at least from my perspective the larger guilds do tend to be more social.
Is a summit a good idea. Tough call. I thnk if you got together 100 guild leaders and asked their opinions you might get 100 different answers. Even in my own guild which I consider to be a social guild that does try to raid. Some of us, like myself enjoy having LFR, I would rather do that 2 runs a week compared to running HoT's or groan, another Troll dungeon. Many others feel that LFR is a joke and that you can AFK, punch the boss in the face, and hit the loot vending machine. They however play 7-8 or more hours a day, and have done all of the normal dailies dungeon runs, money earning tasks many of us try to squeeze into 3-4 hours.
Guilds have changed, even in the less than 3 years I have played. They primarily are groups of people that have become friends that play a game, rather than a means to see end game content. Certainly you will have your top 10 on any server that someone may have one or two characters in strictly for progression. But the majority join guilds now for the social aspect.
I do think that a summit would be a help in order for them to find a way to make the guilds mean something once again. Forming a guild is too easy. Have a disagreement with an officer, /gquit grab some friends and make a new one, only to have it fall aprat because you are level 1 and grinding to 25 is hard.
Thinking about this a little. I don't think so much a guild summit would be helpful, but a server summit, now there is a good thought. Talk to people that are active on the middle of the road progressed server forums, find out what is working for them, what isn't. Why are people leaving, what can they do to get people to move to there.
Marathal Feb 20th 2012 12:53PM
WTB iPhone auto correct. LOL
Ringo Flinthammer Feb 20th 2012 12:42PM
"I'm not an Old Republic player, but one thing I appreciate about the game is BioWare's active approach to supporting guilds."
Other than, you know, any real in-game guild utilities. SWTOR has a guild interface that makes any of the official WoW ones seem amazing by comparison. And forget about anything like guild banks, ranks (before you yell that the game is new, there are "legacy levels" for all of the characters on a single account -- the rewards aren't implemented yet, but Bioware already showed a commitment to having it be part of the game by having XP accrue to legacy levels when the game launched), or perks.
Guilds are yet another place where SWTOR is a mediocre "MMO" attached to a superlative "RPG."
Pyromelter Feb 20th 2012 1:00PM
The more I read about swtor the more it seems like an unfinished game with about 2 million people paying to beta test it. I think I'll try it once I can do things like modify my ui, or queue for a dungeon.
(To be sure though, the single-player questing experience does look like a superior way of leveling versus other MMO's.)
WrecklessMEDIC Feb 20th 2012 6:03PM
You'll be able to modify your UI next month. But as far as a Dungeon Finder feature, that could be quite a wait. There's strong opposition to that sort of thing from the playerbase right now. But someday I'm sure we'll get it. :)
Luke Feb 21st 2012 2:06AM
@wrecklessmedic
I disagree. The player base is split if anything. I've seen just as much vocal support for a LFG system as I have those opposed. Same is true for combat logs. The strong opposition you see is not just a push against LFG specifically but a push against SWTOR being too much like WoW. Like I said the player base is split on most of these things, it just seems like strong opposition because of the various features being argued over.
A lot of people are playing SWTOR because they are tired of Warcraft's raiding model. Which don't get me wrong, I love raiding but even I'm bored with it.
Parrin Feb 20th 2012 12:46PM
I agree that it would be a smart move for Blizz to take that approach, but I’m really not sure about the resources required. SWTOR uses 4 languages for all of the players in the game, right now. How many does WoW involve?
Plus, SWTOR’s guild features are pretty sparse, and their plans for guilds are extensive. This seems to be a chance to establish some priorities on the upcoming features. Guild ships are coming, but what is the current expectation or level of need? Operation and event calendars are on the way, but what features should they include first? Guild banks are right around the corner, but what level of control and access do guild leaders need and what ideas do they have to make them special for Star Wars? Also, they may be looking at other features for the game that can be incorporated more extensively for guilds.
I really believe that this is an attempt to manage expectations, and give the community a chance to persuade Bioware on a few unique ideas. Blizzard, however, would need so much more invested to connect to all of their established communities. Just the perception of disregard or neglect can be damaging.
suzurambles Feb 20th 2012 12:45PM
I think the people afraid if raid guild influence are right. While the majority of guilds, and thus guild leaders aren't raiders the problem isn't one of ratios, its interest.
When you put out a call of "Hey guild leaders, come talk to the devs about the direction the game is going." the people that are gonna respond in the biggest number are going to be the leaders of the best on the server sorts of progression raiding guilds.
The GMs of the social big tent guilds are just there for perks and maybe some light raiding with their core on the side, the GMs of friends and family guilds are there to play and have fun with the folks they know, whatever direction that may take, but it's gonna be the progression guilds that will want to get in there and have their voices heard when to comes to design direction.
Like you say though, hopefully Blizzard has moved past the "hardcore raider is king" stage of development, but that doesn't mean the the raiding GMs wouldn't be on this sort of talk like a dog on a bone.
Panger2001 Feb 20th 2012 6:32PM
So because a guild is not top in progression, the guild leaders are not dedicated to the progression of the game or how to make it better?
I lead a fairly large guild that is in the "between Expac blues" right now where several members are not logging in or are out driving the new and shiny games. But I am still concerned and devoted to my guild and listen to it's members. I would participate in a guild leaders meeting. This is a sad assumption that only the "progressive" guilds have a vested interest in the game. Contrary to this statement, there are many "casual" guild leaders who work very hard to maintain their guilds and enjoy the game in all of it's facets.
Sarabande Feb 21st 2012 8:23AM
I run a small, casual non-raiding guild and I can kind of understand what suzurambles is saying. I am dedicated to my guild and I know there are many GLs out there who care deeply for their guilds. But when you read forum posts and even comments here, what kinds of opinions do you often read? If the hardcore progression players are small in number compared to others, you'd never know it from the posts. In fact, if you read many of the articles, (not all but many), they also take that view.
I think it's at least somewhat true that the leaders of the progression guilds (as well as the raiders in those guilds) are often the most vocal, to the point that people are very surprised by how few raiders we've had in the game over the years. The impression is that almost EVERYONE raids (and we're talking well before the LFR) and those who don't feel that they are in the minority, which can also make them feel like they SHOULDN'T say anything. While I know quite a few progression raiders who are some of the nicest people, and are some of the most helpful with great information on the forums, you tend to remember the elitist bullies ready to pounce on you if you got some information slightly wrong (regarding a boss fight or class mechanics, or if your gear is less than optimum and yet you had the audacity to speak up).
GormanGhaste Feb 20th 2012 12:50PM
I think guild leaders would be a good source of feedback, but I think including players who are representative of different subsets of the wow population would be a good idea as well.
Ringo Flinthammer Feb 20th 2012 12:56PM
"I'm not an Old Republic player, but one thing I appreciate about the game is BioWare's active approach to supporting guilds."
Other than, you know, any actual in-game support.
SWTOR has a guild interface far below the quality of WoW's original guild interface.
It has no banks or guild perks. It doesn't even have a basic provision for something like guilds leveling. And before someone says it's a new game -- the game launched with Legacy XP, that tracks XP for a yet-to-be-implemented system that levels all the characters on a given account on a given server, providing, theoretically "family tree" benefits to all characters. Bioware, which has shamelessly aped as much as they can about WotLK-era WoW as possible, didn't implement anything at all for guilds other than a chat channel and a crappy guild interface (which is nothing new -- their auction house interface barely works at all).
It's another example of how SWTOR is a great "RPG" attached to a mediocre "MMO."