Breakfast Topic: What do you think about the current Raid Finder loot rules?
by Olivia Grace 
Feb 24th 2012 at 8:00AM
Raid Finder loot rolls seem to be quite the hot topic at the moment. Many people are talking about the system in rather scathing terms. There was a small change made to the Raid Finder loot system in patch 4.3.2, described as follows:
Patch Notes
But many people think this hasn't gone far enough. I am inclined to agree with them -- there seems to be an attitude right now of "if I can roll need on it, I'll roll need on it whether I need it or not."
Patch Notes
Players can no longer win multiple copies of the same item on a single Raid Finder boss kill. For example, a player who chooses Need on two set piece tokens or two weapons and wins the first, will not be eligible for the second on that particular boss.
But many people think this hasn't gone far enough. I am inclined to agree with them -- there seems to be an attitude right now of "if I can roll need on it, I'll roll need on it whether I need it or not."
I'm not saying for a second that I agree with this or condone it or think it's right. But, it could be argued, it's almost self-defense. It's not dissimilar to nuclear disarmament (wow, way to make lateral associations, Olivia) in that countries will always say, "Sure, I'll disable and destroy all my nukes, just as soon as everyone else does." People will stop needing on gear they don't need just as soon as other people stop. Do you see the cyclic nature of this problem?
But what can Blizzard do? Limit drops to two of that token (for a main spec and an off spec), weapon, item, and so on per character through the Raid Finder? Prioritize people who haven't won that item before somehow? Limit a person's need rolls per week? I'm not even sure if any of that's possible or logical, but it might solve some problems, and we know the Raid Finder is a work in progress.
What do you think? Do you roll need just because you can? Or do you refuse to play other people's game? What could Blizzard do to alleviate the situation?
Filed under: Breakfast Topics
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 8)
gutien Feb 24th 2012 8:05AM
When I win an extra copy of a trinket I already have, I remember how badly I wanted it before I had it, and select greed or disenchant.
I hate the bastards who need on it and then ask people to roll for it while the raid is still on.
Lars Petersson Feb 24th 2012 9:50AM
Or when guildies need on things for other guildies...
This is why I can't stand LFR, and if I see two or three people from the same guild in 5-mans, I'll keep a close eye on the need rolls...
Ashlar Feb 24th 2012 8:08AM
I think the current system is horrible. It leads to griefing, ninja looting and general ill-ill in the wow community.
In my opinion, you should remove random loot from raid finder bosses entirely and replace it with special 'raid finder currency" you can use to buy pieces of gear. That will remove most of the drama form the system.
Arrowsmith Feb 24th 2012 8:15AM
Oooo, that sounds really interesting in a good way. I'm not sure if introducing a third PvE currency is a good idea, but I do like this idea overall.
Marac Feb 24th 2012 8:19AM
Now your talking about another currency. I just don't see blizzard going back down that road. There used to be like 4-5 different currencies and they consolidated it down to just justice and valor.
Michael Feb 24th 2012 9:04AM
You could use Valor points that you can only spend if you've done the raid in question. Similar to buying weapons with honor or conquest points you can only purchase if you have earned a certain number of points for the season. You know what raids a person has completed, and what bosses they have defeated, so any item could be flagged as buyable only if a certain criteria has been met, and still only use Valor or even Justice points as the currency without adding any new currencies.
Jorges Feb 24th 2012 9:07AM
This is an excellent idea. Specially because Blizzard has stated that they will introduce new raids for the raid finder. They only have to add the currency and only award it for raids that qualify for your level. This should be no problem, since they already have level restrictions implemented for LFD and LFR. And since weapons can actually be restricted by class, leave them dropping from bosses like always.
Chihane Feb 24th 2012 9:08AM
The other multiple currencies were essentially the same thing and worked in the same way, just for different tiers of gear. The way I see a LFR currency working, it would be like LFR DKP or EPGP - doing your weekly LFR raid(s?) would get you points, and the person with the most "LFR points" rolling on an item gets it, and loses a number of points based on the item's slot.
razion Feb 24th 2012 9:17AM
I honestly think we should just handle loot like we do when it's a Holiday Event--just give everyone their own loot bags.
You kill the boss and you get some loot. Can't trade anything around, and you don't have to worry about main-spec or off-spec or whatever. What you get is what you got. The loot you got may not be what you wanted, but at least no one can 'cheat the system'.
Make loot independent. It doesn't even have to be in bags--just assign random loot for everyone involved. No rolls, no drama.
DarkWalker Feb 24th 2012 9:22AM
@Michael:
Just add the items to the VP vendor, but hide them if the player does not have the achievement for the corresponding boss. I believe Blizzard's systems are already able to do this, so coding effort should be minimal.
Joe Feb 24th 2012 9:47AM
The reason Blizzard will never go to a completely non-random system is because of gambling/gaming psychology.
It's like playing a slot machine. If the slot machine gave you a fixed amount of credits per pull, people wouldn't play it. It's that random thrill of mostly losing but occasionally winning big that keeps people coming back, both to the slot machine and to loot drop video games like WoW.
Now, now, don't get me wrong, people raid for lots of different reasons. But, whether they're consciously aware of it or not, the slot machine aspect of the loot drops is part of the allure for most players.
As much as we might rant in the forums about how unfair and nasty the system is, we all still get that little thrill when we win a drop. (Don't forget, we're all just rats in this fancy skinner box.)
Saikoujin Feb 24th 2012 9:53AM
Over the course of the last few expansions, Blizzard has been doing a give and take when it comes to gear acquisition by casuals and hardcores. In BC, gear was very difficult to acquire by casuals. This was reversed in Wrath. In Cata, casuals had difficult gear acquisition through 4.2, with a swift reversal of that in 4.3. I think it is time that Blizzard needs to retool gear acquisition again, due to the advent of Raid Finder.
I really like the idea of currency-based acquisition, and believe it resolves much of the petty Needing going on. There wouldn't need to be a new currency instated, though. Here's an idea:
1) Have dungeons provide only Justice, awarded per boss kill. Drop the Valor reward. Instead of the Valor reward, award ALL roles a 'goodie' bag at the end (gold, flasks, etc). The Call to Arms reward (pets, vanity gear, etc) will still remain for roles which are currently needed in LFD.
2) No Valor gear is purchasable from city vendors, only Justice gear. Justice gear will be required in order to obtain the necessary iLVL and stats needed for LFR and Normal mode (e.g. Dungeon gear won't cut it)
3) Valor is awarded per boss kill in LFR, Normal, and Heroic. Valor cap would be 1650 per week, but Valor would only be cappable by running LFR. The reason for this is LFR bosses would drop no loot, only Valor. Valor can be used by LFR runners to purchase tier and all other slot gear from Valor vendor(s) located at the start of the instance. Normal and Heroic raiders would acquire less Valor per boss, up to a maximum of 1000 without the use of LFR. The reason for this is bosses in Normal and Heroic would drop gear and tokens like they always have. The token and Valor vendor(s) in the Normal and Heroic instance would be located halfway through the raid, unlike LFR. This is to distinguish and separate the ease of acquisition of higher iLVL gear, and make it so that LFR'ers can't just form raid and go into a Normal instance to snag better gear (with their higher amount of Valor).
I think this would placate that Hardcores out there that are raising concerns that those who are of lesser skill than they are, are getting gear that is on par with what they have. Casuals in LFR would be able to acquire gear without the petty Needing going on, and be able to buy gear based on a retooled Valor currency.
My $.02
Chetti Feb 24th 2012 10:49AM
Although a different currency for raid finder wouldn't be terrible, it would defeat the whole purpose of have it be almost the same as a raid for people that don't have time to commit to a raiding guild. If nothing but currency dropped from LFR, I don't think it would be long before people stopped running it. With nothing to roll on, it becomes a bitch-fest for people to complain about something, be it not being about to rush through it just to get done, or someone's dps, or what have ya. If currency is all there is to gain from it, it'd get old fast and be avoided. Personally, as a raider, I'd avoid it. In normal modes there is the possibility of something to roll on and currency, gives something to look forward to. Even if I don't get to roll on something, at least there is something to see someone else roll on, a reason to be there. Not just killing something and seeing x100 currency flop into your currency tab. Its probably the reason that the holiday bags stopped being empty if whatever random thing could drop wasn't in there. Running something and seeing nothing at all for doing it seems kinda pointless.
Zachariahs Feb 24th 2012 12:10PM
Why not allow RF tier to be available for valor as well as a token? This wont help with weapons and trinkets but its a start. This gives you the option of sub par stats and a set bonus or the extra stats w/o the bonus
Saikoujin Feb 24th 2012 12:53PM
I don't completely understand why my previous post was down voted so much, but to each their own. I think the notion that people keep coming back because it's the 'slot machine' lottery aspect of loot only goes so far, especially in LFR. In its current iteration, the RNG of loot drop + the RNG of your roll + the RNG of the players themselves is pretty unrewarding. The notion that players would not run LFR only to acquire VP is also incorrect, from what I've read both here and elsewhere in the past months. It's a great way for players who don't partake in Normal or Heroic raiding to rack up VP in a short amount of time as compared to dungeons. Why not transition that fully over to Raid Finder?
Homeschool Feb 24th 2012 4:36PM
SWTOR has a pretty decent random system, where the winners are decided when the boss dies, and the rewards are based on token/vendor (like tier gear).
Essentially, the loot table goes one step further and does the roll before deciding the loot. Then each winner gets a randomized piece from a loot list of items that are appropriate to their class. It's bound to you, so no Need-and-sell.
Basically, if you win, it's gear for YOU.
Revnah Feb 24th 2012 8:09AM
I don't roll need if I don't actually need the item. I have also passed on pieces of loot to people who had a blue item equipped and came across as nice enough.
The rules need to be changed though. My kitty druid still has her 378 staff in spite of running raid finder up every single week. Kiril drops regularly from Madness of Deathwing, and it's already restricted to Hunters and Druids, but it's always won by some boomkin - on one run, THREE Kiril dropped and all three of them went to boomkin, in fact.
It's time they introduced a spec-based loot priority. We can lament all day that people don't give a toss, we won't change them but we *can* give them less opportunity to be dicks.
GDkitty Feb 24th 2012 8:38AM
This is something they ARE planning on doing.. its just not likely right now.
This is something they have said that they want to bring out with MoP.. without knowing the programming behind the game, may require some major overhaul, so better to do it with the xpac where they can program it out there with less interuption.
Abbadon Feb 24th 2012 10:04AM
Sry to hear your pain... I've had better luck in the LFR with my alts than my main; so i semi-understand.
On the note of the hunter/druid staff... I won it yesterday on my hunter. Another hunter said Gratz and then went on to say he was glad to see a hunter win it because he's lost two before to resto druids... Yea, as bad as a boomkin winning, a resto winning seems to be a bigger slap in the face.
Likewise, why can't my shadow priest roll on spirit gear? Spirit = Hit, but nope... can't roll on that. And I know there are some other situations like that for other classes, too.
Personally, I roll need on the tier tokens regardless of whether I have that slot or not... The LFR RNG can be so fickle; I feel like I need to take a win where I can in hopes of trading for another tier token that I didn't win... I pass or choose DE for all other slots that I don't need.
The Dewd Feb 24th 2012 10:33AM
This is what's happened to me on numerous toons with various types of gear. I've just about quit WoW over it because of people who take gear they don't need and - sometimes - can't even get benefit from. I can't wait for Mists (as in, I don't know if I can't hold out that long) because of this and I'm sure I can't be the only person (out of the 10M+ players) who might be considering quitting over this. Sure, we're probably a drop in the bucket but the point still stands.