What killed 25 man raiding for me was a combination of losses: Combination of lockouts, same loot, and same achievements.

With the combination of lockouts, you can't do a 25-man pug of the first couple bosses. Everyone has already dedicated their toon to the weekly guild run so the best you can get is alts and non-raiders. My guild often sponsored a 25-man pug of ICC and we had a lot of fun taking in randoms from the server to clear the first 7 bosses. It was just a blast. We also lost the option of doing a guild 25-man and then doing fun 10 man runs for achievements or things like that. It just severely limited the scope of things we can do. I understand the reasoning behind it: stopping people from feeling that they HAD to do both runs but it still hurts me a little.

The same loot had a lot better justification in my eyes, even though it did hurt 25 man raiding. Half the reason we got pugs for our 25 man is because of the better loot. I personally wished they would have just made the gap smaller, so 10 man heroic would still be better than 25 man but 25 heroic would give the best loot. Just my opinion, I understand they had their reasons, but I feel that raiders did it for the loot and I personally enjoyed it.

And this is what really gets me. We can't even have achievements? We can't say that we did it 25 man versus 10 man? Was that really necessary? If nothing else it gave people even more goals to go for, doing it on 10 and 25. I feel bitter.

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