Skip to Content
2-25-2012 @ 10:41AM
I too was very, very disappointed in seeing such a biased post.25 mans already have plenty of advantages compared to 10 man raid groups. Legendary completion rate is an obvious one (my 10 man raid group finished our first Dragonwrath after Heroic Ragnaros died, and will be finishing daggers in several weeks, also after the final heroic boss is dead. 25 mans actually get to benefit from legendaries within the same raiding tier, unless they are at the very top end). Any sort of competitive 10 man doesn't have a chance. We are the top raid group on our realm and casual 25 man guilds that don't step foot into heroics complete legendaries well before us.Loot drop rates are another advantage. Sure, the ratio of loot dropped per player is the same, but with more loot drops comes better odds to get particular pieces to drop. In Firelands, we didn't see a second H Prot token off of Domo until after Rag was dead. In DS, we got the off-hand off of H Ultraxion 6 kills in a row. We still farm Firelands weekly, and have still NEVER seen the holy paladin bracers off of Shannox (though at this point it's moot as an upgrade, but still an example of how RNG reliant 10 mans are for gearing). Your average 25 man raid group is going to be 3-4 ilevels higher than a 10 man group of similar progression, just due to loot saturation.There is also the issue where 25 mans can field a greater depth of roster. 10 man groups run an 11-12 person roster. When fights arise that call for some form of group stacking, 25 mans have all the advantages. An example: my raid group's H Blackhorn kill and H Zon'ozz kill each took a week to two more than they could have just because we couldn't drop to fewer than 2 melee members, a distinct disadvantage in 10 man on those fights. And yet a 25 man guild on our realm scored a relatively easy first H Zon'ozz kill by bringing in all their ranged, and a couple fire mage and spriest alts to cheese ball bounces, which is the sort of thing that just isn't available as an option to 10 mans. 25 mans can also carry undergeared alts or fill-ins as needed for specific mechanics when 10 mans can't, just due to the fact that 1-2 under performing dps out of 17-18 dps matters so much less than 1-2 underperforming dps out of 5-6. And sure, a lot of times the per-player dps requirement is higher in 25 mans, but that's a fuction of being able to field full buff coverage, again something very difficult to manage in 10s. Even the whole myth of getting 25 people together being more difficult needs to die. Sure, I only have to organize 11 people. But when 1 person has a sick kid, and a second person has their net go out, we are screwed for progression. A 25 man loses two people, well, life goes on as usual. Sure, there is more recruitment turnover, but there are also more people available to handle recruitment. So 25s get plenty of advantages. I don't want to see 25s getting special gear, or extra gems, or all the crafting mats. That is just stupid. I hear plenty of people bemoaning the fate of 25s and talking about how much more "epic and rewarding" they feel, so here is a thought: why don't those people all just run 25s together? Problem solved. Let those that want to run 25s do so, and those that want to run 10 mans do so. And if more 25s go to 10 mans, so what? What do you care, so long as your own 25 man continues to run? Stop trying to punish other people for playing how they like.Here's the thing: I did 25 mans in Wrath, because I had to to be competitve. I hated them. I hated not knowing half the people in the raid, I hated having limited healing roles, I hated having to raid with people I didn't like just because you can't set up 25 mans by personality meshes the way you can with smaller groups, and I hated having multiple people in the group who would half-ass their way through raid night because hey, 20 other people would be enough to compensate. The best part of my raid week were the off-nights running the core 10 man group. The same week Blizzard announced that 10s and 25s would share lockouts and loot in Cataclysm, we immediately called it an expansion and went strict 10 man for the remainder of ICC. The few people in guild who still wanted 25 man raiding found new homes, and everyone was much happier for it. Cataclysm raiding has been the most fun I have ever had in WoW, and it is completely because I get to run with a tight-knit, higher performing group of people that I like and enjoy, and take part in encounters with a much higher call for individual responsibility, making the actual gameplay that much more enjoyable too.Honestly, I am reminded of the self-styled romantics that mourn the passing of the "age of the horse". They talk about smog, and how bad traffic is now, and how much nosier things are. But now only people who like horses own them, and that means things are a lot nicer for horses. It's the same thing with raiding guilds. Now only people who want to raid 25s do so, and it's better for everyone involved. Sure, the are fewer, but so what? I imagine MoP we will hit the equilibrium of 10s and 25s, and then people can stop acting like the sky is falling. Trying to "incentivize" 25s is just going to push people like myself back into raiding in a format they hate, and honestly, this time around I would just quit WoW instead of going back to 25s, having seen just how green the grass is on the other side.
First time? A confirmation email will be sent to you after submitting.
Members enter your username and password.
Enter your AOL or AIM screenname and password.
Please keep your comments relevant to this blog entry. Email addresses are never displayed, but they are required to confirm your comments.
When you enter your name and email address, you'll be sent a link to confirm your comment, and a password. To leave another comment, just use that password.
To create a live link, simply type the URL (including http://) or email address and we will make it a live link for you. You can put up to 3 URLs in your comments. Line breaks and paragraphs are automatically converted — no need to use <p> or <br /> tags.