Breakfast Topic: Is Cataclysm tanking getting easier and easier?
by Olivia Grace 
Feb 25th 2012 at 8:00AM
And the fairly tricky modes continued as the heroics did. Then Zandalari heroics came in, and a couple of those fights were entertaining to tank. (I'm looking at you, High Priestess Kilnara.) But I do think that the pressure in those heroics rested on the shoulders of the healers and general group cooperation. You all had to do the right thing in order to succeed. The tanking in itself was not inherently hugely challenging; apart from making sure everything was hitting you that should be hitting you, not standing in bad and interrupting, you didn't have to do that much, but the peril was still fun. Hour of Twilight? Well, Azshara can be a little challenging. That's about it.
Let's look at raids for a second. Sure, Magmaw was pretty straightforward; the person dealing with the adds had a far harder job than the tank. But Omnotron was more of a challenge, as was Maloriak. The Ascendant Council and Cho'gall, too, in places. Firelands began well. Trapping Riplimb at Shannox was a fun role, but it went downhill from there. Ragnaros was awfully boring to tank.
And it seems that Rags' Swap at X Stacks model has been adopted and carried over into Dragon Soul. Morchok? Swap at X stacks. Yor'sahj? Guess what? Ultraxion? Sort of. Blackhorn, once he lands, the same. Hagara, at least, has something you have to run away from while tanking. And you might occasionally have to goal-keep Zon'ozz's ball. The Spine of Deathwing and Warmaster Blackhorn fights really excited me simply because there are adds! And the Madness? I seem to spend as much time DPSing as I do tanking. I'm not saying these fights are easy for everyone; I'm saying they're easy for tanks. And this is slightly frustrating -- all you can do to tank better is get better gear to soak more damage or do more. The skill element is fading.
Do you agree? Is Blizzard shifting difficulty off tanks onto other roles? Is this a good thing? Has it been happening forever? Is it because of the Raid Finder? Is it to try to get more people tanking? Am I talking utter nonsense?
Filed under: Breakfast Topics
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Twowolves Feb 25th 2012 8:16AM
I just started Cata tanking on my 83 pally. I held off because of wipe fears (I'm a Wrath tank baby, but been playing since 2005). I decided to try it after a friend, an experienced healer, suggested we team up. I've run Cata 5-mans as a DPS alt so I'm familiar with the fights. I reforged my gear so my Block chance is nearly 60%.
I have not found tanking to be as challenging as expected. Maybe it's because Blizz upped my threat so I don't have to really worry about losing aggro and chasing mobs around and my friend's healing gear and skill keeps me above 50% at all times.
I'm a long way from raiding so I can't offer feedback on that aspect, but I suggest give it a shot even if you're a tanking worry wart like me. I hate feeling like I let my group down.
sharlatan Feb 25th 2012 4:31PM
I used to tank, Cata has bored the hell out of me, so I've stopped. In fact all the long term tanks I know have ditched it due to boredom. A lot have left (I took a break) and others have gone to dps or healing.
Tank is just not engaging anymore, its just dps but with lower numbers and auto threat.
BOOOOOOORRRRRRIIIIIIINNNNNNGGGGGG!
Marmeladova Feb 25th 2012 8:20AM
I agree. Everything depends on your experience level of course. If you are new to tanking or if you are an altoholic like me, and your 6th alt is a tank, there still might be challenges, but in general it seems tanking has become easier than it used to be. I still don't want to tank the old Cataclysm heroics, but I have no issue with the new Twilight ones.
Snuzzle Feb 26th 2012 7:05PM
I miss the old Cata entry-level heroics. You can bet your butt I didn't queue until I was roughly 340 ilvl even though you can get in at 333, because I knew the group's success rode largely on my shoulders as the tank. I made damned sure I was properly specc'd, gemmed, and enchanted (the lattermost was pretty easy since I'm an enchanter). And cc? Oh yeah. And cooldowns. And making sure you didn't waste cooldowns/interrupts.
Nowadays? Run in. Hit stuff till it dies. /yawn, /sigh, see how many pieces of armor you can sneak off before the healer notices (I'm a bear) one piece at a time. Tee hee. But yah, I miss the challenge and the engaging tanking. Hopefully MOP will return some of this with the "active mitigation" system. Here's hoping.
Parchoogler Feb 25th 2012 8:22AM
Last! Uh... wait....
razion Feb 25th 2012 8:22AM
Swap tanks or taunt at X stacks, when Y happens, or before Z occurs is a staple raiding model design, I think. You need to put in a mechanic that requires you to switch tanks, or there would be no need to bring more than one tank into a raid. And with only one tank in a full raid group, you run into a bit of a gearing problem--that's an entire slew of gear that would go to too few people (sort of like how we have for Holy Paladins).
Besides, the main "job" of tanking isn't just aggro, it's a combination of mitigating as much damage as possible (thereby saving healer stress and mana) and protecting the rest of the group (ensuring that they can live to kill the boss, something that you yourself cannot hope to do alone).
If all a tank had to do was mitigate incoming damage, I'd imagine (at least in the current tanking model) that tanking would be very boring. As we progress into Mists, and we see mitigation become a more active model, I foresee such decisions of making threat less of a staple of a tank's job to be more enjoyable for tanks. Time will tell, however. But, in the meantime, without the active mitigation model (outside of using things like raid wall cooldowns) I would agree that it feels somewhat incomplete, though I have good hopes for Mists in this regard.
mementh Feb 28th 2012 2:38PM
I agree, right now i am having to be a kitty dps for most of Dragonsoul because you do not NEED a second tank for alot of fights.
But i feel that it is a broken encounter design there that allows for 1 tank in the first place.
It does allow for a extra dpser and when alot of people are not putting full effort into dpsing it makes it easier when you have enrage timers.
I feel alot has to be done in mop, no more 1 tank fights, if the best strategy is 1 tank because it gives you more dps or you wipe because the boss is not downable, then something has failed badly.
gryndon Feb 25th 2012 8:29AM
Completely agree.
I've been bored out of my mind as a tank in DS. Bosses = boring. But so is the trash. There's not a single "interesting" pull in the whole raid. All we do is run up to stuff and taunt. No worries about pulling extra groups because they don't exist. /yawn.
Sqtsquish Feb 25th 2012 12:05PM
When the intro 5 mans have more interesting tanking mechanics than the raid mechanics in the final raid of the expansion you can start to see a progression of easiness....or perhaps more of a "regression". I haven't been motivated to tank for anything more than the call to arms (just because they rewards were a goodie bad) since after BWL. The fights just don't seem dynamic enough for me to bother dealing with the fail of the dps or heals.
Luotian Feb 25th 2012 8:35AM
I don't think easier for tanks is a bad thing at all (but then, I don't tank). The entry level bar to it was so high that almost no one wanted to do it, and fewer still would even try. For the sake of everyone they really kind of HAD to lower that.
Marcosius Feb 25th 2012 9:24AM
Can but agree with you. I only recently rolled a tank, and have even - gasp - enjoyed it to an extent. I don't mind tanking being "easier", not one bit.
Then again to me WoW is more of a social game than challenge seeking, so I'm probably biased.
Paul Feb 25th 2012 10:58AM
I actually agree with this to a certain extent.
It's certainly not applicable to the argument when it comes to Heroic raiding, and with LFR, I would say that we now have a means of making encounters to an "entry level" without making normal mode "entry level" as well.
However, since I feel that raids have been, should be and must be a continuous learning curve, I would like to see a change to what defines a good, bad, average and awful tank.
For me, it should be as follows;
Awful tank - Doesn't pay much attention to what's going on. Often dies due to poor CD usage and unable to maintain threat because all they do is autoattack.
Bad tank - Mostly has timing issues. Slow to react, but at least they're trying. Don't understand the encounter enough.
Average tank - Good at keeping themselves alive, easing the job of "their" healers, utilises raid mechanics well enough to get some advantage
Good tank - Expert at CD timing, pays special attention to their co-tank, uses raid mitigation at the best moments, looks ahead of the raid's mechanics to maximise progress on a boss
Something like that. That way, learning to tank in normal isn't a wipefest, being average doesn't get you benched and being awesome simply means you spend less time on an encounter once it has been mastered.
ahsanali Feb 25th 2012 1:03PM
Tanking in 5 mans should be easy for sure. Tanking in 5 man heroics should be engaging at the very least - not boring.
Tanking in LFR should be easy too (though honestly the queue in there is the longest for tanks and making encounters more interesting to tank wouldn't affect LFR tank population too badly, it may actually help streamline queue times).
But like Paul says, tanking in raids should have a difficulty progression from the first boss to the last.
I love tanking, I am sure there are many other tanks like me who play 2 - 4 tanking classes. Making tanking extremely easy may encourage players who have never tanked before to give it a go but it does nothing for retaining tanks who already love their role. I did a full clear of DS10 on my bear and have not queued again for DS on it. Just no desire to tank. The same for my warrior. So now I go and arena or bg instead because for me tanking this tier is supremely yawn inspiring.
And if I want to raid, I go and heal or dps instead as there is something beyond mindlessly spamming my "rotation" in those roles. Tanking needs to be engaging. Hopefully the active tanking model in MoP will add some stuff for us to do, but the issue will be the same - if a bad tank gets splattered and only good tanks survive, then either the difficulty will be such that only good tanks succeed or it will be such that everyone succeeds and the seasoned tanks get bored.
I don't envy Blizzard this balancing act. I just think they need to make raid tanking more challenging. The tank shortage has always been at the 5 man level, not at the raid level.
Mycroft Feb 25th 2012 8:36AM
I started druid tanking at the end of wrath, after winning a lot of feral offspec gear in icc25, and buying everything there was to buy with badges, and running randoms with people who were overgeared out the wazoo. My tanking strategy was to keep pushing the Swipe button. Barkskin, Berserk, I never used those things. And it was a pretty successful tanking strategy too - I didn't die, and held aggro just fine.
I have a feeling it's never going to be that easy again.
Killik Feb 25th 2012 8:39AM
Tank simplification is probably a side-effect of trying to give dps more stuff to do than just blindly execute a rotation. Probably a good thing though, if it shakes the stereotype that dpsers are generally shiftless and lazy ;)
Matt Feb 25th 2012 8:41AM
I actually enjoy how it is now as a raid leader because I have pleanty of time to keep an eye on what's happening and make sure people aren't derping.
Also, Rag is slightly harder than you make it sound.
nosoup4u76 Feb 25th 2012 8:45AM
I don't think anyone would argue that the latter dungeons and Raids in Cataclysm have been made significantly easier for tanks than previously. I do recall starting off in Cata dungeons and heroics and they were somewhat challenging, but mainly because they relied on the whole group to do something.
You can do all the right things on Erudax and Drahga in Grim Batol for example, but if DPS doesn't switch to the invocation of flame, or if someone is standing outside the eye of the storm for Shadow Gale on Erudax, it's probably leading to a wipe. And there was more for tanks to do as well. The swarms of adds on Jan'Alai always gave me issues for some reason.
But I think after that initial round of heroics, they decided to make things a bit more forgiving overall. I've sensed that some of this was due to wanting to let more folks dip their toes in the tanking pool. I'm always very supportive of new folks wanting to tank. Heck, I've offered to run dungeons/LFR with folks in our guild just to walk them through the fights their first time through. To anyone else I say go for it. Welcome brother/sister to the glorious brotherhood of tanking! Strap on a shield/some fur/bone armor and let's go get punched in the face :)
On second thought... I like the mystique that has surrounded those who tank and tank well for most of Cata. Where's my delete button?
Stormy Feb 25th 2012 8:49AM
I couldn't agree more. I understand that the post was about fight mechanics, not threat, but I'd like to tack on that while mechanics are getting dumber, they've also made threat a non-issue. I'm a warrior, my job used to be kinda hard sometimes. These days if my opening attacks don't miss, I'm fine tanking with Thunderfury. That isn't an exaggeration: I've been tanking with Thunderfury again for ages now because tornadoes are just the best. Sitting there nearly bored, watching omen and being downright shocked at how it doesn't really matter.
At least I have the tornadoes to make me smile.
Lame mechanics? Threat reduced to a joke? I know they wanted more tanks on the job but did they really have to lower the bar that much?
Luotian Feb 25th 2012 9:38AM
Yeah, they really kind of did. That pedestal was just too high.
Devin Feb 25th 2012 10:41AM
No, they didn't..... yet. I also don't think they lowered the bar to get more tanks in, that would be short sighted, as they would lose just as many tanks as they would gain and given the skill cap I'd be willing to bet the overall shift in skill would go down due to this.
I think this question is premature, it's unfortunate Blizzards plan for active mitigation meant they had to make threat less of an issue but putting another responsibility on tanks would have been overwhelming to most.
Tanks are in a lull right now, Blizz is aware (I have to assume this). Active mitigation is, ostensibly, the answer to this problem. All we can do at this point is wait and see, too bad they ruined tanking for 2, maybe more, patches to fix it.