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2-28-2012 @ 12:47PM
I must have missed the version of the Wildhammer wedding that wasn't pointless and dropped instantly in favour of neutral quests.
2-28-2012 @ 12:58PM
What I don't understand is that they don't seem to address this issue at all. I mean, either Blizzard knows something we don't know and Alliance questing was secretly loved by the overwhelming majority of players or -and this is much worse- they themselves do not see a problem with it.I mean, a simple "we feel Alliance questing got the short end of the stick in Cataclysm and we're sure to have a better developed story in Mists of Pandaria" would go a long, long way instead of ignoring those complaints in favour of pretending that everything's fine and dandy.
2-28-2012 @ 1:17PM
No way to know who the Average Player is.I personally loved the wedding plotline, but it should never have been a CENTRAL plotline, by far. Uniting the Wildhammer survivors is fine, but then they don't really DO anything.
2-28-2012 @ 1:27PM
The story of the zone, for each faction, was the story of bringing these new people into the fold, and that's the parameters they had to deal with; and they couldn't just give them both the same story. Orcs are badass, so they got a badass story. Dwarves are silly, so they got a silly story. One was inevitably going to be preferred by more of the audience. They may be a big all-powerful software company with unlimited resources, but even they can't make everybody happy, all of the time.
2-28-2012 @ 1:47PM
I do feel like the allies got the short stick of the 80-85 zone quest storylines by far. But note that Blizzard did confess to saying that they really spread their team thin and taxed them. I have to believe that most of the Blizzard quest designers are at their heart Horde players (nothing wrong with that!), and I think that might have had an influence on the overall quality of storytelling as far as the Alliance are concerned in the later zones. It wasn't just the Wildhammer wedding, but the way the Horde came to the Twilight Highlands, which was epic with Garrosh fiercely leading the way on a fleet of goblin-crafted airships, and coming under attack by dragons, right after ousting the traitor in their midst back in Orgrimmar. Now compare that to how the Allies arrived - by a seaplane, without much fuss. Not much of a contest!But as they've confessed, they put more focus on the 1-60 starter zones than they did 80-85 zones. I'm willing to forgive them for it as this expansion has given me as many good memories as any other expansion so far (surprisingly enough, after a while, I have to admit I'm still enjoying the game as much as ever.)
2-28-2012 @ 1:52PM
Sorry, Grovin, but I think you're wrong.Of course they couldn't give the same story to both factions, that'd be silly. But it's still one game and what Blizzard did is that they gave one side an endearing, serious story that makes you feel powerful and involved with the overarching plot and the other a frankly quite silly story about a wedding that had almost no impact on whatever else was going on in the zone and the expansion at large.They don't have to give each side the same story, but they have to provide equal quality for both factions.
2-28-2012 @ 1:58PM
Also, if dwarves are silly, so are Trolls (even more so, arguably) and they seem to be getting all kinds of interesting story.
2-28-2012 @ 2:04PM
The Wildhammer wedding might have been pointless, but I thought it worked, and it was fun.
2-28-2012 @ 2:14PM
Cast your mind back to Wrath--ask someone who started in that era who Ner'zhul is. Chances are they won't know.Back in Vanilla, let's be honest here, both sides had terrible storytelling. The neutral factions stole everyone's lore. TBC was Horde-focused, but only for the orcs and Blood Elves. The Draenei were sidelined in their own expansion.Then Wrath hit. People claim it was an Alliance expansion. It wasn't--it was a neutral expansion, same as Vanilla, it's just that the neutral factions stole our lore. And do you know what that ended up doing? It ended up meaning that both sides experienced the same quests as handed out by the same questgivers, instead of two concurrent stories to promote replayability.Did the Forsaken ever get their revenge on Arthas? No. Did Sylvanas? No. She wasn't even there at the Citadel. It was Tirion Fordring and the Spotlight Stealing Squad that is the Argent Dawn.It could all have been avoided so easily, though. Both sides could have had their specific factions, their specific stories--we could have had Dalaran and the Kirin Tor, saving all the uproar about losing even *more* lore to neutrality.But what would the Horde get? Well, imagine how cool it would have been if the Forsaken had raided Naxxramas and repaired it, bringing it under their control. Then again, both sides need not be functionally identical (In this case, with one flying base apiece)--the Forsaken could plague Azjol-Nerub, and use the resulting army of undead nerubians against both Arthas and the Alliance.Instead, when Blizzard writes a single story for both sides, we end up with a collectively broken suspension of disbelief. And when they write different stories for each side, they sacrifice one to get the other done.We're the side that (a) has its lore stolen for neutral purposes instead of the Horde receiving their own stories, and (b) has its lore half-assed to get the Horde stories done. That ain't fair.
2-28-2012 @ 3:39PM
That is some refreshingly intelligent opinion there, Blayze.I think Bliz missed out on nearly every opportunity for good storytelling in wrath. Jaina, Sylvanas, The Scarlet Crusade, Muradin... All people who should have been there for Arthas's fall... Let's not forget some reprasentative from the blood elves. Their current state is all thanks to the Lich King too. Tirion had arguably the least business with Arthas, his feud was with the Scarlets!For that matter, WHY were we even attacking the Scarlets at any point in Northrend? The continent is big enough to let them fight our enemies for us. I recall hearing that they wanted Northrend to seem like a bleak victory. Tirion saving the day does not accomplish that. The scarlets busting in to help us, and saving our asses would have been EPIC."Wasted potential", the two-word summary of lore and story in WoW. And you're right, all to preserve "Balance" by making it Neutral factions who ever do anything.I don't actually blame Blizzard for the bad writing though. They're no George R.R. Martin or anything, but they've proved that they can crank out better stories than this before.Personally, I blame us, the players. Consider Theramore's imminent destruction. How often have I heard players complain about this? Or that "The horde has more mounts!", "The alliance has more zones!", "Thrall gets all the spotlight!" "Where's all the Pandas?!"Blizzard, stupidly, caters to our idiotic complaints. They hear what we want and see as unfair in the game and try to even things out. The problem? It's a game about war people! The sides aren't supposed to be eternally equal! If the alliance has more zones, deal with it! They're germany in europe at the height of WW2, and they have nothing more to gain and everything to lose! If Theramore gets blown up, good! I don't understand why it took this long, it's an easy and obvious target! If the Ogres and Pandas both join the Horde only, deal with it! 8 races to 6 does not ruin the game. Maybe the alliance will get two more a couple expansions later, but for now enjoy that things are looknig grim for the alliance!Speaking of which, why are we going to Pandaria? Both of us invading a neutral country for....? If I were Varian or Garrosh, I'd take advantage of the other's idiocy and grab some territory in the important areas of the world while the bulk of his forces are off getting smacked around by pandas.Sure, the alliance really got shafted lately. Draenei getting shafted in TBC, Worgen getting Shafted in Cata. Southshore...? Arathi? Twilight Highlands being a one side war where the Horde fights dwarves, and the Dwarves hide their booze and marry each other? Worgen losing Gilneas completely, yet the Goblins build an entire ZONE from scratch? How come the Gnomes haven't built a half dozen new Gnomregans yet? Hell Cata's story was largely about the Horde Warchief.
2-28-2012 @ 5:37PM
"If the alliance has more zones, deal with it! They're germany in europe at the height of WW2"Uh, really? I think I detect a Horde bias here.
2-28-2012 @ 5:46PM
I thought the wedding chain was charming and fun, but it shouldn't have been the focal point of the entire zone.
2-28-2012 @ 6:39PM
I suppose the simplest way to explain everything is that I'm Alliance *despite* Blizzard's best efforts, not *because* of them.
2-28-2012 @ 8:12PM
"Cataclysm was in many ways Thrall's story"gag, choke...You'd almost think the devs are trying to drive Alliance players away from the game.
2-28-2012 @ 10:04PM
"You'd almost think the devs are trying to drive Alliance players away from the game."Hey, we got Malfurion back. Except he went neutral. And ignored Ashenvale to hang out in Hyjal and hassle Cultists, not that the raid bosses cared or noticed.Metzwing: I gave you more power, shouldn't you have killed someone?Fargoros: These pesky Druids are all up in my business.Metzwing: So kill their leader.Fargoros: Okay, I'll send my goons after Thrall.Malfurion: I'm right here, you know?Fargoros: Quiet, you! Minions, show everyone how important the 4.2 raid is by going after someone not involved.Malfurion: Seriously, I'm the guy killing your sub-minions.Staghelm: Thanks to the powers of Character Derailment, I turned evil off-screen. I summon my Fire Druids to stunlock everyone. Fargoros: Quickly, kill Thrall!Staghelm: What about all these Aspects? And shouldn't I want to kill my nemesis?Metzwing: Nah, they're not important.Fargoros: Haha! Without Shaman Jesus, the Druids can't fight back!Malfurion: .. really? This was my big comeback? I'm not sleeping with that producer again..
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