Lichborne: Further reflections on death knights in Pandaria

Now that we've all had a couple of weeks to absorb the latest updates to the Mists of Pandaria talent calculator, it's worth going back and taking a second to look to see if we can dredge up anything else. I've been keeping track of various errata, as well as discussions among the death knight community, and I feel it's worth taking another week to take a second look at a few skills and talents and see where we lie as we wait for a new update, the Mists beta, or both.
Those annoying rune costs
You remember that Death Siphon and Soul Reaper have no rune cost in the current calculator, right? Alas, it's not that simple, and I must make a mea culpa here for not noticing this sooner: Blue posts have clarified that those two skills do cost a single death rune each.
This, of course, throws their proper use into a little more question. Is it worth it to use Soul Reaper when you could be spending that rune on a Scourge Strike or half of an Obliterate? Is the healing of Death Siphon worth giving up the extra damage from one of those weapon strikes? This is, again, where we'll need solid numbers to make that choice. At the least, though, I'd say it makes Death Pact an even more tempting choice for unholy death knights on the level 60 talent tier. As beta progresses, we'll definitely want to keep a close eye on these type of talents and try to answer that question. Are they worth the rune they're spending? If not, how do we fix them?
Magdalena also makes a good point in her article on the Son of a Lich blog. A lot of these updated talents, from Vile Spew to Soul Reaper, make use of shadow damage. Could this be an issue? It's difficult to tell without real numbers, but if frost death knights suddenly find that so many new abilities they're expected to use for damage or utility use shadow damage, it could open a gap between the two specs.
On the other hand, given that unholy still has inferior damage when not using a very specific sword, it could be this will simply cause a needed closing of that gap without depending on tentacles. Unfortunately, that question probably can't be answered with any certainty until we get into the beta, get more solid numbers, and get some real testing going.
The First Talent Tier: Cooldown panic and eruption vs. destruction
In discussing the first tier of death knight talents, two issue come up that may change the whole game when it comes to choosing your talent. First, there's the exact meaning of Vile Spew. It says your ghoul "erupts," which I interpreted to mean that the ghoul explodes and ceases to exist, causing you to summon another one. As some people have rightly pointed out, erupt doesn't have to mean the ghoul dies, and that means the talent becomes much more viable. The second issue is that Unholy Blight, far from being the semi-permanent aura of old, actually has a 90-second cooldown.
Now, a useful one- to two-minute minute cooldown certainly isn't alien to the game or even to death knights. See Summon Gargoyle for just one example. At the same time, though, it becomes obvious this isn't a complete return to the days of old. At the same time, if Vile Spew doesn't destroy the ghoul, suddenly unholy death knights have an on-demand disease spreader that, while it does cost runic power, is also available at a moment's notice and certainly easier to spread than Outbreak plus Pestilence. Certainly Unholy Blight instantly becomes a lot less glamorous, especially for unholy death knights. With that cooldown, even frost death knights might be tempted to choose Roiling Blood so they can spread Blood Plague as quickly as easily as they can Frost Fever.
Personally, that 1.5-minute cooldown makes me think Unholy Blight is either going need some high AoE damage (it currently lists none) or a much, much lower cooldown to be a viable choice for any reason other than nostalgia.
Why won't Blizzard fix Army of the Dead?
In looking at the latest iteration of the Mists of Pandaria skills, one thing did come to mind: Army of the Dead is still there, and it still has ghouls that taunt. Army of the Dead is sort of both an awesome, fun little piece of flavor for the death knight and a constant thorn in our side. It vies with Death Grip for the most hated death knight ability, blamed for wipes and near-wipes, keeping us vying with hunters as most hated class. All this, though, doesn't mean Army of the Dead isn't a useful tool. I've written multiple columns on how to use it effectively. Yet I still get mail about it, and it still remains an issue.
That said, there is one pretty easy way to make this all go away. If you take away the ability for Army of the Dead to taunt, its main bother goes away. There's still the chance that it could aggro extra mobs, of course, but it at least won't taunt the wrong thing, forcing tanks off their game and putting healers and DPS in danger of AoE or frontal cone attacks. Yet with all this, Blizzard still hasn't changed it and has made no sign that it plans to.
Weirdly enough, I was sort of thinking about this relation to Anne's recent musings on how much Blizzard should "force" us into good behavior. Even before Cataclysm, Blizzard did go through a lot of trouble to make the game a bit more newbie- and casual-friendly, creating a new tutorial system, making tooltips clearer, and removing or simplifying a lot of mechanics, stats, and buffs. Even grouping is easier thanks to the Dungeon Finder and the Raid Finder. With this in mind, will simplifying rampant or hard-to-use mechanics like Army of the Dead's taunt be next?
The most popular argument for keeping it the way it is would probably be that Army of the Dead is a precision tool, not just another button to mash, and that taking away its downsides is another step in the dumbing down of the game. The opposite argument would be that Army of the Dead, as it is, is so specialized that it stays inactive for far too long, too poorly designed to be of any real use to a death knight except in a handful of situations ... which then leads to another question: Should every single ability a class uses be immediately useful, or is it OK to have once-in-a-blue-moon type utility?
Me, I think the best choice is, as always, to let the player choose. We've already heard hints that glyphs will be used in Mists to bring back or change abilities on a very base level. So, let's put the removal of Army of the Dead's taunt on a glyph. That way, it's now up to the choice of the user. If you blindly use Army of the Dead, you still cause issues. But if you do your research and understand the choices, you can slap on the glyph and use it in a wider variety of situations to your heart's content. It may even be a great way to introduce new death knight players to whole concept of glyphs and their proper usage.
Filed under: Death Knight, (Death Knight) Lichborne






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
ravenpoe8 Feb 28th 2012 9:14AM
I am excited about DK talents for MoP. I want to try the talent which makes "Death Grip" AoE, talk about utility, pulling 6 mobs in at once, yes please.
nosoup4u76 Feb 28th 2012 9:24AM
Dan, first off good article.
Just wanted to weigh in on the use of Army. I'm fine if they want to allow a glyph to remove the taunt. Hopefully it's a minor glyph. But honestly, I'm fine with it being a little used wipe saver that you can keep tucked up your sleeve. I've been able to use it on occasion to that exact effect, and in using it judiciously, have garnered a lot of praise from guildies and group mates alike.
DK's don't need another minor DPS cooldown to use at the cost of such a great (if highly situational) utility spell. The frost tree is already ridiculously easy, but I love having all of the utility that we have in our current kit. Learn how to use what you have and use it wisely and your groups will love you. This is yet another of those mechanics that separate stereotypical DKs from good ones.
ravenpoe8 Feb 28th 2012 9:28AM
"I'm fine with it being a little used wipe saver that you can keep tucked up your sleeve"
Agreed, and I tank on my DK, thus my tank (me) always knows when it's coming, so I don't get group aggro for that. If needed a quick "Army on Phase 2" to my healers pretty much keeps everyone happy.
"Learn how to use what you have and use it wisely and your groups will love you"
- Very well said nosoup :)
Dimmak Feb 28th 2012 10:38AM
I have to say my primary use for Army of the Dead is a tanking cooldown and an emergency fodder to taunt off adds. I'd like to keep it exactly as is. As the above poster noted, a glyph to remove the aunt would be nice for those who want that.
Swifteye Feb 28th 2012 11:01AM
Absolutely agree with you... if they take away my AotD's taunt, I will cry.
I never use Army as a DPS cooldown (that might make me a bad DK, but eh)... I *always* save it for a very specific scenario: The tank or healer has just died, the boss is pretty hurt, but he has just enough health left that he's gonna be able to kill the DPS before we can kill him.
I'm really not going to care about the piddling DPS increase of AotD if I'm the last one alive, that boss completely ignores them and keeps hitting me, and I end up biting the dust six seconds before I would've had him. Whereas it would've taken him more that six seconds to target and kill all those taunt-happy ghouls.
Alternatively (okay, upon revision, I lied; there are multiple scenarios), even if the boss still has a ton of health, AotD can save the day when my Runic Power bar is empty and it can keep the boss from killing the DPS (especially me) just long enough for me to pool sufficient RP for a battle rez on the aforementioned dead tank or healer.
This may seem HUGELY situational, and it really is, but you'd be amazed at *just how often* this actually comes up in LFD in particular! I love my taunty little ghouls; don't take them away from me!
loop_not_defined Feb 28th 2012 11:20AM
I wouldn't mind a Minor Glyph removing the taunt. As it stands, I almost never think to use Army of the Dead just because there's so many situations where I shouldn't.
If I can't make regular use of an ability, it might as well not exist. That isn't some ultimatum to Blizzard - it's just that rarely-used abilities pretty much drop off the radar for me. I've got four 85s (almost five), each dual-specced...there's only so much I can remember, y'know?
Docseuzz Feb 28th 2012 9:26AM
ok - best idea I've had in a while - Army of dead no longer taunts baseline, and then...
Major glyph - Death Stitches
Upon completing channeling army of the dead, the minions merge to form an abomination which attacks and taunts enemies and has health proportional to the number of ghouls alive at the time of channeling stops.
ravenpoe8 Feb 28th 2012 9:30AM
so you want an undead "Constructicon Devestator"...epic
Docseuzz Feb 28th 2012 9:41AM
Devastator... Voltron... any way you want to go.. :)
This way, via glyph it's either a DPS cooldown, or a clutch survival cooldown. IMHO - it's difficulty has been that it tries to be both... Boss level mobs would be immune to it's taunt (like all other pet taunts to avoid gaming mechanics...). Having it explode in a gassy cloud of death-flatulence would also be fun....
byronius_prime Feb 28th 2012 10:10AM
My hat's off to you! Epic, superb idea..! Would be much more controllable too, since it's one mob taunting.
Docseuzz Feb 28th 2012 10:25AM
For extra-special bonus points - the abom will "absorb" any additional Army of the Dead ghouls summoned during it's existence, healing it up to full. If full, increases the abomination's health pool and attack power...
vf19glopez Feb 28th 2012 11:27AM
Glyph of Devastator would be awesome indeed.
I also demand an engineering version.
Ballmung Feb 28th 2012 11:33AM
You sir deserve a medal!
stiegemeyer Feb 28th 2012 9:40AM
I run with another Death Knight a lot and with one of us tanking and one of us on DPS, the Army made for a very useful "Oh Sh**!" button when multiple packs got pulled for one reason or another earlier in the expansion. Those taunts bought us enough time to get a couple adds down and prevent a wipe. I would love a glyph letting me choose, but I wouldn't want the taunt to be gone away completely.
vegetto375 Feb 28th 2012 9:44AM
I am still bother of the fact that in the talent tree having to choose between Dark Pact and Vampiric Blood is a no brainer for Blood DK's to go with Vampiric Blood. I do hope that Dark Pact or Vampiric Blood be removed from that list and given to Blood only. As it stands I won't have a real use for my ghoul, and as some may argue summoning the ghoul helps with DPS, I'm a tank and if you ask me to make a choice between DPS and survivablity I will always choose the later.
Docseuzz Feb 28th 2012 10:20AM
I use summon ghoul -> death pact as another survival cooldown on blood. No other real use for dk tank... ;)
Jaq Feb 28th 2012 9:46AM
Army of the Dead doesn't need to be changed, in my opinion, but I can understand why it would be.
Despite the sheer awesome of seeing a small army of ghouls rise up and attack your enemy, it's always been a last ditch, oh crap button. It's actually lost a lot of its effectiveness since the ghouls don't scale like the Unholy ghoul-I haven't checked lately, but I think the AOD ghouls have less than 30K health-and thus can be one shot into oblivion easily. A tank in Hour of Twilight popped Army on Arcurion yesterday, which led to about 20 seconds of Arcurion spinning around firing off the lines he says when a player dies, and a pile of dead ghouls at his feet. Funny times.
But AOD is really a nifty tool if used right. Take, for example, my casual guild, one that doesn't always have the epic, proper combinations of players for raid night. AOD is a godsend on the black ooze phases of Yor'sahj, where the little buggers will keep the adds busy on those nights when you don't have massive AOE capabilities. (And even when we do, I'll pop it just because it's hilarious.) I can understand the urge to dumb it down, but I find that if you want to know a good DK, you see how he uses three abilities: AOD, Death Grip, and Dark Simulacrum.
Meccaryn Feb 28th 2012 9:51AM
great article - but to be honest, i have more pressing issues which i rather them fixed asap
no. 1 - failure of 2H DPS viability for DK. lets be honest here: wrath's blood dps is perhaps the closest we have to having an actual dps spec that focus on 2H. with the ever-failing 2H Frost experiment and the growing aspect of pet management on unholy, we've arrive at a strange chokepoint where 2H for DK, at best, is a 'stat stick'.
i, as many others as well, want to have a viable 2H dps spec being a DK. quit dabbling with Frost and actually do something. hell, with all the hardwork to 'ensure' DW Frost is actually viable, why not actually make Frost to pick either DW quick 1 handers or 2 big 2 handers?
no. 2 - expanding DW's viability, at least into tanking. i'm sure this is a sensitive topic as well, but i felt the constant roaring from community speaks for itself.
DW tanking has been a constant request from the community- in fact, the DK class was originally intended to have 2H and DW viable across all specs. i know that things changed as time passed - but i do also think its time to re-evaluate the stance on DW tanking.
with the entire talent being revamp - we can incorperate some sort of DW viability passively to the specs, further allowing more fun options to play with.
in fact, having 2 tanking weapons could possibly help solve the 'spikiness' of DK tanking - those tanking stats would definitely much more eye-pleasing for tanks than crit/haste
nosoup4u76 Feb 28th 2012 10:31AM
Meccaryn,
Hey, sorry to burst your bubble, but I think the days of dual wield tanking are dead, finished, done, etc... Blizzard has stated this on several occasions. Honestly, I don't see a lot of clamor for it, or that there's a need for it. If you want to pine for it, that's up to you, but until Blizzard does a full 180 on the issue, it's a moot point.
I think you're making a bit of a reach here in wanting all three specs to have viable dw and 2h abilities. It's more likely that 2h frost is going to go by the way side and that you'll have tanking 2h in blood, 2h dps in unholy, and dw dps in frost. Sure, you can still dps 2h in frost, but what you suggest would essentially be a copy of fury warriors. Not that our benevolent overlords haven't seen fit to copy one class's mechanics onto another (see 3 point rogue, aka ret paladin) but they've shown before it's not their favorite way to go.
Revynn Feb 28th 2012 10:39AM
- "why not actually make Frost to pick either DW quick 1 handers or 2 big 2 handers?"
I don't even want to think about the rage storm that would ensue if DK's were given Titan's Grip. Blizz is killing off a lot of Sacred Cows in MoP, but I really, really doubt they'll take a flavor talent as unique as TG and give it to another class. That's like giving Priests Chain Heal.