What type of loot system works the best?
by Dan Desmond 
Mar 1st 2012 at 7:00PM
This discussion raises a good question: Is there such a thing as the "best loot distribution model"? When Star Wars: The Old Republic launched, Bioware seemed to have gotten a whiff of loot drama in games like WoW and even EverQuest (where anyone could loot anything, anywhere), devising a new system that is in use in its normal-mode operations (the SWTOR equivalent of a raid). There, most loot is auto-assigned based on class and spec. Personally, I've found that model to be frustrating because, among other things, it doesn't select against someone's receiving the same piece over and over again. Overall, I think that system fails because it takes the option away from the players and makes gearing up through operations as frustrating as needing on a piece of gear in the Raid Finder.
In my opinion, all loot distribution models are flawed because, at their core, they rely on human beings making decisions. Even systems like loot councils, where those in charge are supposed to be making their decisions based on what is best for the group, are susceptible to corruption, whether it's favoritism, fear of retaliation for not giving someone a piece they really want, or some other concern. Roll-based systems, too, are imperfect; while the decision of who gets what appears to be up to the random number generator, the decision to hit need or greed is ultimately in the hands of the player. A player could need on a piece of loot that they don't actually need, then trade it off to whomever they choose.
Ultimately, in the humble opinion of this player, the key to success seems to be finding a loot system that lines up with your group's goals and personalities. Want to give your group a fighting edge for difficult progression? Then maybe loot council is a good idea, where gear can be assigned to whomever can turn it into the biggest advantage for the raid as a whole. Is your group more concerned about having a good time and distributing loot evenly and fairly? Perhaps a point-based system such as DKP or EPGP is in order, where things like priority and point rankings are extremely clear and out of the hands of the loot master.
So what do you think, commenters? Do you think it's possible for a loot system to be devised that could work well for everyone involved, or are all of the systems fundamentally flawed in some way? Can there be a middle ground where, as I mentioned, certain systems work perfectly for certain groups?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, Raiding
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
JiggyBOOM! Mar 1st 2012 7:11PM
The best kind of loot system is one where everyone gets something for each boss downed. Right now, everyone gets Valor/Justice points (if not capped) and some gold/greens/etc.
Even better would be akin to previous expansions. Each player would receive pieces of gear that match their spec but are lesser in quality, blues and greens, that are bound and aren't DE-able or tradeable. That would provide opportunities for minor gear upgrades, transmog, etc. without detracting from a bosses' epic loot table.
Seriously, I am sick and tired of raiding, killing maybe only one boss, and having a 10% chance at a 33% chance or lower at a gear upgrade. I'd rather get something I could at least transmog.
Scuutor Mar 1st 2012 7:14PM
My guild isn't running current content, but when I do t-mog runs, I use an honor system.
If you need something, roll need. If you win, please be respectful of the other people, and don't roll need again until everyone's gotten something. (of course if everyone's ok with it, roll as you will)
Everyone agrees that it's fair, even puggers that come along in my groups.
I believe that if the raid leader makes it clear that a certain type of behavior is expected, then that is the type of behavior people will exhibit. Let people be good, and the will.
My 2 coppers.
togaman5000 Mar 1st 2012 7:27PM
My guild uses EPGP, a loot mod that I highly recommend. EP, effort points, are awarded by the raid leader for whatever reason. Each item that a boss drops has a GP, gear point, value, and winning the item adds that much GP to the player. Priority is ultimately decided by the ratio of EP to GP, PR. This guarantees that players that attend get loot, and players that have little to no loot are put in a position to benefit. At the end of every week we do a flat decrease of 10% to both EP and GP to keep things in line. It definitely works - open to a little rigging, but we haven't had a real problem yet.
In A World (XBL) Mar 1st 2012 7:27PM
Just give everyone a tier token for killing a raid boss. In exchange, make the boss fights harder so they're not loot pinatas. Alternatively, keep boss difficulty the same, but minimize the disparity between tier pieces and valor point pieces so that, although players are being rewarded more frequently, the jump in quality is not as high.
Pyromelter Mar 1st 2012 8:01PM
totally OT, i just realized what your avatar and screenname meant.
RIP that guy with the voice.
Klausse Mar 2nd 2012 10:10AM
Good thing they found a replacement that sounds exactly like him. Hope the 2nd guy doesn't die...or hope they've already recorded the Pandaren intro!!
Kaesth Mar 1st 2012 7:28PM
My guild used SWAPS (a bidding, "zero sum" dkp system) in Wrath and we've moved on to EPGP (a ratio of attendance to gear earned priority system) in Cata. We use loot council for legendaries. Every guild I have been in has used some sort of point or priority system, and I don't think I'd be very comfortable in a loot council guild.
Of all the systems that I've used, I think EPGP is probably the most fair and easy to understand. We've been happy with it and with its results for us this expansion.
Luotian Mar 1st 2012 7:34PM
I happen to like need/greed rolls. The drama caused there is all by sore losers who can't accept they had a chance and failed.
Bapo Mar 1st 2012 8:11PM
When people use it as intended, I love Need / Greed. When people roll need on things they already have, or don't actually need (warriors rolling on agi bows / guns for ex.) just to vendor, that's when I hate that system.
Illume Mar 1st 2012 8:15PM
At some point it really can get ridiculous if you're using /roll. Its all luck, I literally went almost a whole tier without winning one role against my guild's spriest and mage, and only started getting gear once they were already had it and chose to pass. /roll hates me.
Luotian Mar 1st 2012 8:25PM
It is all luck, which is why I think it is the most fair. And if they choose to vendor it, big deal. That's their choice. It isn't like there is only one in the world, and sooner or later it will probably drop again and your chances are still exactly the same.
Eccentrica Mar 2nd 2012 12:54AM
It isn't fair at all. A person could go literally an entire tier without getting any upgrades whilst someone else could get decked out and vendor all subsequent wins. At some point the Raid Leader/Officers need to step up and say "Hey, glad you loving your 5 set. The rest of the gear goes to someone else now till they are geared."
Raids don't work effectively with a huge spread in gearing and/or dps, they work best when everyone improves synchronously.
Not only that, but how can you keep people motivated to run week after week for months with no tangible reward for their work and dedication to the group's efforts. Downing Ultraxion just stops being a thrill after the nth time, ya know.
Firiun123 Mar 2nd 2012 6:29AM
My guild uses need/greed with a loot master- main spec first, if item is equipped, loot master will not give you the item. Randomness is fair, not biased towards lower/higher geared players, or the loot master's BFF.
Finnicks Mar 2nd 2012 7:05PM
Arguments for "need/greed" rolls inevitably boil down to selfish concern for getting loot for yourself.
These people don't belong in my raid.
We're a team, we gear as a team, we progress as a team. If you're just here for your own personal loot, then there's the door. I'm not going to waste this team's time and effort gearing you up and getting you through progression just so you can bail as soon as you have everything you need, or bail as soon as you don't get something you want.
Team focused, or bust.
SuicideKings forever.
jcompguy Mar 1st 2012 7:41PM
Guild wars 2 has by far the best loot system. Everyone works together to accomplish something and everyone gets a reward. No competition or drama among friends, just teamwork and group success. WoW's system is old and tired.
incoming00 Mar 1st 2012 7:58PM
that sounds like a good system, but in WoW it'll just get everyone geared too quickly and people will get bored and stop playing. though, people get bored of running the same dungeons over and over again (troll dungeons burned me out) and just quit because the lack of gear upgrades. everyone should be compensated for their role, since it took everyone in the group to take down the boss. it sucks going in the raid finder with 24 strangers only to not get any loot and just try again the following week. sure, i got very lucky and won 5 drops in a week(on one toon i might add), but i havent received a drop since, and maybe rolled a few times. but i just gave up on it since i didnt wanna burn myself out of the raid content before my guild was ready for progression.
Spellotape Mar 1st 2012 9:45PM
This system might work for LFR (given how much drama surrounds the current distribution of loot), but for normal/heroic mode raiding incoming is right - it would lessen the life of most raids by gearing people too quickly.
DarkWalker Mar 1st 2012 10:36PM
Of course I still have to see the game, but GW2's combination of a loot system without loot rolls, and raids that won't require benched players, is almost sure to pull me away from WoW raiding permanently. Why face drama over loot and raid spots when I could be having just fun instead?
BTW: I hate loot rolls with a passion. So much that even without GW2, I'm planning to switch over to Diablo 3 for all my group play as soon as it's released (due to it's absence of loot rolls), and unsubscribe from WoW as soon as my Annual Pass ends. I'm not even sure I will purchase MoP; the Beta access means I will most likely see all solo content before it's launch anyway, and I'm in no mood to face a gear grind that includes loot rolls, so I'm not sure I would even attempt it's dungeons and raids.
jordan Mar 1st 2012 7:49PM
Maybe they could do it like you have a 10% chance of receiving a satchel with a piece of loot for the spec you're playing and instead of getting a piece you already have you get offset pieces. Enchanting mats can be rare drops from the bags.
Zachariahs Mar 1st 2012 7:50PM
We have a healer > tank > dps priority system that seems to work well. Everyone rolls on the item they want, but a healer gets first priority, then tank, then dps. We figure healers need to keep ppl alive so they get gear first. Obviously, healers doing roll on hit gear, tanks on dps gear, etc. It seems to work well for us.