Encrypted Text: More rogue poison news from Ghostcrawler

Two weeks ago, I asked you to throw out everything you knew about rogue poisons. I was being silly, because I know that would be a lot to ask. Many of us have spent years learning the intricacies of the poison system, studying PPM charts and evaluating our options. Unfortunately, it looks like there was actually no hyperbole in my original request. With the latest round of info we've received, every single poison mechanic in the game will be overhauled in Mists of Pandaria.
We already know about the new lethal/non-lethal designations and how we'll be able to have two poisons on both of our weapons at all times. We already know that poisons will be critting for double damage in Mists and that their crit chance will be calculated based on our melee crit rate. These improvements are just what we needed to increase our utility options and to boost crit's viability as a secondary stat. In addition to these sweeping changes to poison crit mechanics, we've learned that poison's hit mechanics are also being revamped.
Expertise's rebirth
Cataclysm brought us the mastery stat, the removal of armor penetration, and haste's ability to increase our energy regeneration. What Blizzard has planned for Mists is even more ambitious.
Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street, WoW's lead systems designer, recently released some information about the stat changes we'll see in Mists. The most important change for rogues and their poisons is the update to expertise. Expertise rating will scale identically to hit rating, with the same amount of either rating providing 1% of the respective stat. The concept of expertise points it gone, and expertise is simply measured by its percentage value, like hit and crit are today.
All of those changes are just housekeeping for the big reveal: Expertise rating will negate both dodge and spell miss at the same time. As I'm sure you know, many rogue specs and builds stack hit well past the yellow hit cap (for special attacks) in order to improve their hit rate with poisons. Poisons will continue to use the
According to some numbers from Ghostcrawler, a raid boss might have a 15% spell miss chance, 7.5% melee miss chance, and 7.5% dodge. Now, as a rogue, you can either stack up 15% hit rating and all of your poisons will land. Alternatively, and ideally, you'll actually pick up 7.5% hit chance and then 7.5% expertise, since that nets you both the spell hit cap and removes the boss' ability to dodge. Assassination rogues will actually want expertise again. Unfortunately, since ranged attacks can be dodged in Mists, hunters will want expertise too.
Expertise and hit take center stage
You're going to want to get to 7.5% hit and 7.5% expertise as soon as possible, regardless of what spec you play. Every single rogue is going to want to reach these two caps immediately. I imagine that all of our gearing choices in the first tier of Mists of Pandaria will revolve around this goal.
Even though 7.5% hit might be our first goal, you can still benefit from additional hit rating, as it will help you to land more white swings, just like it does today. In addition, expertise over the cap can also let you avoid a target's parry and block chance, which is useful in some situations such as leveling.
The secondary stat shuffle
After reviewing what we know about Mists so far, it's clear that Blizzard is aiming for more parity amongst the secondary stats. Every rogue is going to want both hit and expertise rating, crit rating is gaining potency to make it an enticing option, and all daggers are going to be 1.8 speed. Haste is already an amazing rogue stat, and mastery rating can always be tweaked to make it viable for every spec. I see the trend in itemization and stat design leaning toward the idea of "no bad gear" via this more even stat balance.
With rogues, druids, monks, and shaman all rolling on agility gear, it's going to be a much more competitive landscape. In fact, with these changes, the entire concept of melee vs. ranged physical gear is completely dissolved, as hunters are going to want all the same stats as a melee class. I guess everything really is hunter gear in Mists.
Filed under: Rogue, (Rogue) Encrypted Text






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Meatball Mar 7th 2012 7:05PM
Poisons won't be on the spell hit table in MoP, anyway.
Cephas Mar 7th 2012 7:51PM
Source? I remember hearing that poisons would be on the melee crit table, but I don't remember anything about the hit table.
Chase Christian Mar 7th 2012 7:53PM
I think that section was wrong, and another part of this discussion is how the new hit/expertise mechanics affect dual-wielding classes. Are poisons using our yellow hit chance or our white hit chance?
Silversol Mar 7th 2012 8:14PM
"This means that Enhancement shaman spells and rogue poisons will crit for double damage. Rogue poisons will also use the melee hit chance."
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/4544194/Dev_Watercooler_%E2%80%93_Mists_of_Pandaria_Stat_Changes-3_1_2012#blog
It's in the critical's section of the blog.
Cephas Mar 7th 2012 8:52PM
Hm, I guess I just assumed that GC was talking about crit chance because that section was supposed to be about crit changes. I still find it kind of confusing.
nutzj98 Mar 8th 2012 3:20AM
I've never heard a wowinsider columnist get it so wrong. I was so confused by this after just reading all the blue posts lately about poison hit, crit, and expertise. I really hope this is insider info or this guy just made himself to be a real ass.
Chase Christian Mar 8th 2012 3:28AM
I guarantee you that poisons will not be using the melee yellow hit cap (say 7.5%). I think there's some part of GC's wording that is incorrect. There's a chance that yes, you could cap your poison hit at 7.5%, but if that's true, I'll eat my hat.
Tbah Mar 10th 2012 9:49AM
I'd like to know your reasoning for that statement, Chase.
I see no reason why we must have three separate hit caps, one of which is virtually unreachable and the other two that will be reached by just looking at LFM.
Matt Mar 7th 2012 7:19PM
"With rogues, druids, monks, and shaman all rolling on agility gear"
Either you need to add hunters to that group, or remove shamans...
Rogues, druids and monks all use leather armor, so they make sense.
Shamans use mail armor, so they only make sense if you are including weapons, rings and trinkets (which definitely makes sense as they are big parts of gearing...). But if you are going to do that, you have to include hunters as well. They will be rolling on agi mail (with the shamans), rings and trinkets. Luckily, they will only equip ranged weapons so we don't have to worry about that.
Titusx Mar 7th 2012 8:19PM
That will be the case on Rings, Neck peaces, trinkets and back peaces.
For all other armor then its just Feral and maybe Protector druids, rogues and monks.
Apple Mar 7th 2012 10:43PM
"Guardian druids" will still be using feral armor in Mists, to my knowledge. The exception is trinkets, of course.
Peter Mar 8th 2012 4:15AM
Ah, but hunters won't be competing for weapons because they won't be using melee weapons anymore. Guns and bows will be exclusively hunter weapons and take both hand slots. The ranged slot is going away.
So the competing group is looking foe melee weapons, rings, necks and trinkets. Hunters will only be competing for rings/necks/trinks.
"Everything's a hunter weapon" is going away.
Tbah Mar 10th 2012 9:38AM
A phrase from BlizzCon '11 I will remember a long time, by GC himself:
"We're going from 'Everything is a hunter weapon' to 'Nothing is a hunter weapon'."
xenothaulus Mar 7th 2012 7:23PM
The only rogue/monk/feral loot hunters will be rolling on will be rings, necklaces and trinkets. We have no crossover for for armor, nor weapons once MoP hits. I'm not worried about hunters so much as monks and cats.
Kuro Mar 7th 2012 7:47PM
Technically you should add DK's and Mages to the mix too... Vanq tokens.
At least your Holy Paladin doesn't have as much gear competetion... as long as they put Monks on the Protector tokens.
Telwar Mar 7th 2012 8:34PM
I strongly suspect token assignments will change with the addition of four new class-role combos (tanky druids, and all three monks).
Right now they're *roughly* equivalent, at 6 or 7 class-role combos per (Vanquisher has 7, the other two have 6). You can't simply add all three monk class-role combos to one without completely overbalancing it.
Shoot, they may do four token types instead.
jordan Mar 7th 2012 9:42PM
Or maybe they'll just have tokens assigned by slot instead of by slot and limited by class.
Tbah Mar 10th 2012 9:59AM
If the tokens are indeed assigned by the number of specs I'd like to know if anyone made a research on how evenly the tokens are distributed among raiders? I've seen more rolls on Vanq than on the other two tokens (per drop) due to the uneven amount of classes in raids vs. the token assignments.
In LK times I was in a 25-man HC guild that had 6 mages, 3 rogues, 2 DKs and 4 druids in the core team. The tokens were a hot commodity, and DKP was very low on these classes (due to high bidding contests). Then when it came the time to roll for a weapon or some jewellery, a shaman or a hunter would easily overbid on rogues.
Yeah, I'm bitter.
Tbah Mar 10th 2012 10:07AM
"Right now they're *roughly* equivalent, at 6 or 7 class-role combos per (Vanquisher has 7, the other two have 6)."
Except that Vanq has 8.
Rogue
Mage
DK tank
DK melee
Druid tank
Druid melee
Druid caster
Druid healer
jordan Mar 7th 2012 8:05PM
With both brewmaster monks and guardian bears using non tank gear does it really make sense for prot warriors, pallies and blood dks to use gear specifically made for tanking? This seems to give them an unfair advantage against agi melee dps.