Encrypted Text: More rogue poison news from Ghostcrawler

Two weeks ago, I asked you to throw out everything you knew about rogue poisons. I was being silly, because I know that would be a lot to ask. Many of us have spent years learning the intricacies of the poison system, studying PPM charts and evaluating our options. Unfortunately, it looks like there was actually no hyperbole in my original request. With the latest round of info we've received, every single poison mechanic in the game will be overhauled in Mists of Pandaria.
We already know about the new lethal/non-lethal designations and how we'll be able to have two poisons on both of our weapons at all times. We already know that poisons will be critting for double damage in Mists and that their crit chance will be calculated based on our melee crit rate. These improvements are just what we needed to increase our utility options and to boost crit's viability as a secondary stat. In addition to these sweeping changes to poison crit mechanics, we've learned that poison's hit mechanics are also being revamped.
Expertise's rebirth
Cataclysm brought us the mastery stat, the removal of armor penetration, and haste's ability to increase our energy regeneration. What Blizzard has planned for Mists is even more ambitious.
Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street, WoW's lead systems designer, recently released some information about the stat changes we'll see in Mists. The most important change for rogues and their poisons is the update to expertise. Expertise rating will scale identically to hit rating, with the same amount of either rating providing 1% of the respective stat. The concept of expertise points it gone, and expertise is simply measured by its percentage value, like hit and crit are today.
All of those changes are just housekeeping for the big reveal: Expertise rating will negate both dodge and spell miss at the same time. As I'm sure you know, many rogue specs and builds stack hit well past the yellow hit cap (for special attacks) in order to improve their hit rate with poisons. Poisons will continue to use the
According to some numbers from Ghostcrawler, a raid boss might have a 15% spell miss chance, 7.5% melee miss chance, and 7.5% dodge. Now, as a rogue, you can either stack up 15% hit rating and all of your poisons will land. Alternatively, and ideally, you'll actually pick up 7.5% hit chance and then 7.5% expertise, since that nets you both the spell hit cap and removes the boss' ability to dodge. Assassination rogues will actually want expertise again. Unfortunately, since ranged attacks can be dodged in Mists, hunters will want expertise too.
Expertise and hit take center stage
You're going to want to get to 7.5% hit and 7.5% expertise as soon as possible, regardless of what spec you play. Every single rogue is going to want to reach these two caps immediately. I imagine that all of our gearing choices in the first tier of Mists of Pandaria will revolve around this goal.
Even though 7.5% hit might be our first goal, you can still benefit from additional hit rating, as it will help you to land more white swings, just like it does today. In addition, expertise over the cap can also let you avoid a target's parry and block chance, which is useful in some situations such as leveling.
The secondary stat shuffle
After reviewing what we know about Mists so far, it's clear that Blizzard is aiming for more parity amongst the secondary stats. Every rogue is going to want both hit and expertise rating, crit rating is gaining potency to make it an enticing option, and all daggers are going to be 1.8 speed. Haste is already an amazing rogue stat, and mastery rating can always be tweaked to make it viable for every spec. I see the trend in itemization and stat design leaning toward the idea of "no bad gear" via this more even stat balance.
With rogues, druids, monks, and shaman all rolling on agility gear, it's going to be a much more competitive landscape. In fact, with these changes, the entire concept of melee vs. ranged physical gear is completely dissolved, as hunters are going to want all the same stats as a melee class. I guess everything really is hunter gear in Mists.
Filed under: Rogue, (Rogue) Encrypted Text
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 2)
Cephas Mar 7th 2012 11:19PM
Agi Leather does seem to be getting stretched a bit thin compared to other armor types. Melee Druid, Tank Druid, Melee Monk, Tank Monk, and Rogue - that's 5 class/role combinations. All other armor types will support at most 3 class/role combinations. Now that there are two leather tanking classes, I could imagine tanking leather becoming a reality.
Boobah Mar 8th 2012 12:51AM
How problematical depends on A) group makeup and B) whether it's better to have more competition for the same (or similar) pieces, or better to have more gear that's worthless as anything but shards to your groups.
That said, whether or not you can adapt DPS plate to tanking at this point has more to do with how far you can take the active mitigation paradigm. Or, on reflection, on whether you're willing to remove dodge altogether from the plate tanks so that they can stack STR the way bears (and presumably brewmasters) stack AGI. Bad synergy there, though, for plate tanks in PvP, although giving them the ability to parry ranged attacks would fix that right up.
Titusx Mar 7th 2012 8:18PM
Does this mean that Expertise above the cap wont be a complete loss? Like, if I go past the dodge cap it still gives me hit rating so need less hit to cap spell miss? is this right?
Apple Mar 7th 2012 11:08PM
Think of it like this. Expertise doesn't increase melee hit, so you will need 7.5% hit regardless (in GC's example math). The situation you describe would be the case if you had more than 7.5% hit, but if that were the case you would just reforge it like you do now, first into expertise up to the cap and then to other stats.
That being said, if you already had 0% miss chance and 0% dodge, there would still be a little bit of benefit to the expertise. If you were on a big face-stabby boss (like Ultraxion), the expertise would mitigate his parry chance. We'll have to wait for the Beta to see how the numbers shake out, but I'd reckon Rogues will still try to manage both caps in Mists.
Boobah Mar 8th 2012 12:22AM
Well, practically speaking extra expertise is still going to be a completely wasted stat; bosses that force you to be in front of them tend to get parry disabled (like on Ultraxion) because the encounter designers no longer expect you to have a unique gearset for each and every encounter, and that would be a likely result of forcing melee DPS into the parry arc.
Rimar Mar 7th 2012 11:26PM
Please forgive me if I am asking a stupid question;
With all of this HIT and EXPERTISE, etc changing, what does this this mean for the 1-80 leveling (outside of the panda area)?
Most 1-80 gear has little HIT and even less EXPERTISE, and certainly not both together for the new stat configuration. So we will be missing a LOT until we are 80 and get updated gear (or roll a panda)? Or is Blizzard going to update all of the gear to reflect their new philosophy?
Boobah Mar 8th 2012 12:18AM
Um... there's not much in the way of hit or expertise while leveling right now. And the miss/dodge chances aren't getting any higher than they are now anyway (aside from hunters having to worry about dodges).
As much to the point, if you stick to the theme park ride, you'll never see a +3 unless you're raiding; the hit caps are both lower while questing, and the encounters don't assume you're anywhere near perfectly geared.
Evelinda Mar 8th 2012 12:18AM
I'd assume that gear will stay the way it is. Hit and expertise, while helpful at lower levels, are really only necessary at cap. I wouldn't think it would be worth their time to go back and update levelling gear to add hit/expertise.
Kelly Mar 8th 2012 8:29AM
Two thoughts on this change:
1) NO MORE 1342 (or whatever that damn number is!) HIT! YES! MORE MASTERY FOR ME!
2) Now I need expertise? DAMN YOU BLIZZARD, let me get to 10 BAZILLION mastery, like I want!
However, taking poisons off the spell hit table is awesome (I always hated having to explain to non-assassination rogues why I was worried about spell hit, being one of only two melee classes without a "spell" [warriors, for those playing at home]).
Tbah Mar 10th 2012 9:40AM
Indeed, trying to explain my need for spell hit buff in the times before raidwide buffs... And doing that every single raid regardless of having the same raidleader -.-
Hail Mar 8th 2012 12:08PM
!@#$ Hunters!
ScrubRogue Mar 8th 2012 5:08PM
Those worrying about all the competition for rogue gear, you don't have to worry too much. I would NOT be surprised if 3/4 of all rogues disappear next expansion, similar to season 5 when DK's appeared and leather gear was called "feral gear".
Actually I *loved* being the only rogue on the server for Naxx/part of Ulduar!
How many of the current rogues are FOTM or brought out for the legendary daggers?