One gear set for PvE and PvP in Mists of Pandaria?

EDIT: I want to make it clear that this is purely hypothetical, and imagined! Blizzard aren't doing this. I'm wondering what's stopping them.
Now, I understand that back in the halcyon days before The Burning Crusade, resilience didn't exist in its current form. Please note, however, that this isn't meant to be a discussion on that period of WoW. So what would be the positive and negative aspects of such a system? One area where I see a bit of a struggle emerging is as follows: How do you get this gear? How does it scale? Where does the best gear come from?
If I were a dev (with or without my coffee), I'd have to say that one's a tricky one. I suppose you could let people earn points from both PvE and PvP and have them spend those points, similar to valor or conquest now, except both are taken to the same vendor. You could still have lower tiers of gear available for honor or justice equivalents that are easier to reach.
But no drops in instances, just points? Boring! Would you need to add drops into PvP somehow, too, or raiders get the best gear faster ... or is the current system OK? Do PvP ilevels need to replicate PvE ones, or is scaling good?
Would you change how people earn those high-end points on the PvP side? The conquest point cap is higher than the valor one, but I would imagine that fewer people reach it per week. And looking at heroic raiding gear, you'd need an equivalent for PvP. 2,200+ rating gear? I would hazard a guess that even fewer players see 2,200+ rating than see heroic raids.
It's important to me that a hypothetical single gear set system doesn't mean PvE or PvP players have to do the other gameplay style in order to get the best gear for their preferred discipline. So when new raid tiers came in, PvP gear would have to be upgraded accordingly.
Leaving that aside, though, what would be the problems when it came to actually using the gear? Well, procs, perhaps. Looking at Dragonwrath, Tarecgosa's Rest's proc as an example, it's great in PvE, really comparable to the difficult task of assembling the weapon, and what's more, it's fun. In PvP, it's troublesome, just like Vial of Shadows was pre-nerf. Blizzard has tried to move away from very high-burst damage in PvP, and I think it's appreciated. But those facts don't mean that a single gear set is impossible, just that cool procs may have to be left out.I think the biggest problem of a single gear set could be the feeling of unfairness. Would hardcore PvP players feel cheated if a hardcore PvE player rocked up and facerolled them wearing raid-acquired gear? Would hardcore PvE players feel cheated if a hardcore PvP player came and blew them all off the DPS charts? Would people constantly feel that the "other side" had it better?
Am I exhibiting a falsely divided view? Ignoring the above, would a single gear set mean a focus purely on a player's skill and not on the "right" gear? Would this help to iron out elitism from one side or the other? Would it bring world PvP back to the fore?
Finally, would only having to grind one gear set for both disciplines remove a necessary hurdle to gameplay duration? I think this may be the crux of the issue.
Filed under: PvP, Blood Sport (Arena PvP)
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
eel5pe Mar 8th 2012 12:28PM
Okay, assuming all your arguments are valid I don't understand why this approach can't also be applied to PvE. Remove all stats from PvE gear right? Everything is cosmetic. When I ding 85 I should be able to go straightwise to heroic Dee-dubya and slap him around right? Skill before gear right?
If your main is ilvl 346 I will extrapolate it to mean you quit sometime in the late summer or early fall. Why, the moment you step back into the game, should your character have the exact same power as mine, when I've been making sure to win a battleground every day to store up CP?
SR Mar 9th 2012 12:44AM
Shouldn't we question why we'd HAVE to queue up every day to cap out on CP every week?
Oh, right... Time sinks to ensure subscription...
eel5pe Mar 9th 2012 11:49AM
Eh, as far as timesinks go it's not much of a timesink. If you're competent it only takes about 30 minutes to win a battleground each day, even if you have to struggle through a few less-than-competent groups (afk out and go do something else).
jasonablackburn Mar 7th 2012 3:47PM
I think a better solution, would be to take the gear normalizer that they are implementing for the challenge modes and apply it to all forms of PVP. This would absolutely level the playing field for all participants. Everyone would have the exact same gear, and matches would be determined more by skill than by gear gaps.
Now you can take all of the honor & conquest points and use them on cosmetic PVP items to use with transmog.
DarkWalker Mar 7th 2012 4:16PM
This is, more or less, the GW2 model for World PvP (for Arenas, which includes it's equivalent to WoW's BGs, it will use standard gear and, to the extent we know, prevent any kind of power progression; the results are 100% skill).
One of the most interesting tidbits about GW2's World PvP: when killed, enemy players drop loot, and give gold and XP, as if they were a mob; players can actually level and gear up by doing PvP. The intent is that someone who wants to head to the World PvP maps at level 1, and never again leave, should not only be able to do that, but not actually be at any meaningful disadvantage when compared with players who also do PvE.
Another thing about GW2 PvP: except for the freely available Arena gear (which is only usable in the arenas themselves), there is no PvP gear. Players do World PvP using their PvE gear.
Butts Mar 7th 2012 4:19PM
I actually really like this idea.
coville Mar 7th 2012 3:52PM
I would like to see a armor storage system to get all those sets out of my bags. I like the quick switch icons, but maybe allow the armor to be stored in that area and not in the bags. My pally has 3 sets of armor (PvP, DPS, Heals). Guess how much room is left in his bags... next to zero.
Michael Mar 7th 2012 3:55PM
Haven't they stated that PvP sets would have a lower ilevel, but the two new PvP stats (power & defense) would make them equal to or slightly better than higher ilevel PvE gear as far as PvP is concerned? In fact, wasn't it part of the Blue Posts within the last day or two? Anyway, from what I've gathered, the lower ilevel would prevent top tier PvP gear from being better than the latest PvE gear (in PvE), but the stats would be good enough to get started, and the top tier PvE gear would be competitive (in PvP), but without having the PvP stats, it wouldn't be overpowering. I'm unsure how this remains to be confusing, unless I'm way off, but that's what I've gathered from the Blues.
WRENCH999 Mar 7th 2012 4:02PM
I might sound like a slightly elitist jerk but I don't see the point of this. Equalizing everyone makes the game dull and boring. Those who work for what they have shouldn't have to put up with raiders destroying in arenas and vise versa. I run heroic DS and also have a 3's arena team. I didn't find it hard to gear both and keeping them seperate has helped me to keep the game fresh. I didn't pvp till this season because I didn't have the gear but was getting bored with raiding. Once I started bgs and then arenas it was like playing a new game and re-sparked my interest. Combinding the gear sets, in my opinion, whould harm both sides of the game and slowly make it boring again.
Melvyl Mar 7th 2012 4:01PM
The only achievement I have left to get Long Strange Trip on my Paladin is to get School of Hard Knocks completed. I crafted up a full set of PVP Plate and plan to spend the next few weeks grinding Conquest and Honor. The second grind isn't too bad but the first one is going to take forever to have enough points to buy anything cool. I think there should be a better way.
Blayze Mar 7th 2012 4:12PM
I'd love this.
djsuursoo Mar 7th 2012 4:17PM
i really like the way you get items in team fortress 2.
on death you have a chance to receive something(also for completing certain achievements or sets of achievements, like me snagging the razorback for playing by australian rules(single out and dominate an enemy sniper).
so in pvp, you die, release, and you have a chance(and fairly small one at that) of getting a piece of pvp gear. lather/rinse/repeat.
the worse you are/the more you get your butt handed to you, the more likely you are to get upgrade gear.
/when i sucked at TF2 i racked up a lot of random items. now that i'm going entire matches without dying on occasion my drop rate has gone DOWN.
Stilhelm Mar 7th 2012 4:20PM
On the surface, the direction they have mentioned taking the PVP/PVE gear sounds very good. Each type of gear will be somewhat better in its intended environment, but still capable in the other environment. The lower ilvl on comparable PVP gear is how PVE gear gains the PVE advantage (considering the PVP power stats are not allocated from the stats budget). The PVP power stats on PVP gear will make it better for PVP than the higher ilvl current-tier PVE gear, because of the PVP power boosting damage against players and the added defense as well, but the different shouldn't be huge.
This will also allow sets to be built in tandem, and pieces will be more interchangeable than they are today. For example, if I enjoy both PVP and PVE, I can use choice pieces of my PVP set earned with honor points as valid parts of my PVE raiding set. In fact, some already do this, and I did it as well on my hunter in the first tier when PVP weapons were easy to get.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to the change, and hope it plays out as well as it sounds.
Brock Mar 7th 2012 4:24PM
One set of gear. Points can be earned either way. PvP points accrue faster since they don't get drops.
Here's the kicker though,
Whilst in PvP arenas and BGs, you have a 30% base damage reduction buff, like they are planning. BUT that percentage increases based on how often you PVP.
This way, you can get your 1 gear set per tier, whichever method you want, and then you PvP to get better at PvP via the PvP Buff.
I hate the idea of having to grind out two sets of gear and switching between them when I go from PvP to PvE. It seems like a lot cleaner of solution than 2 gear sets, one with a slightly lower ilevel to discourage it's use in other content, and with 2 new different resilience stats.
The net result is the same as having two sets of gear, but it is much much much less messy and confusing.
DarkWalker Mar 7th 2012 4:33PM
I believe it's doable, but it would require drastically reducing the inherent RNG nature of PvE gearing.
Not that I would complain; if PvE changed overnight to using only JP for the gear, or any other system where RNG (including loot rolls between the raiders) was completely removed, I would be jumping with joy (and would immediately start doing the LFD and LFR runs I've been neglecting since the start of the year).
Plast Mar 16th 2012 12:02PM
Suppose all gear is endowed with 2 sockets each piece. Points can be spent using Honor or Conquest to buy PvP specific Gems. Gems can be either Attack or Defence and can vary in magnitude.
This would allow people who only earn Honor to buy gems that might be a bit less powerful than those one buys with Conquest.
Players could customize their sets from all out Attack, to a mix, to all out defence.
These PvP stats would only be active in PvP situations.
Homeschool Mar 7th 2012 4:54PM
It's (unfortunately) contrary to the nature of the game. Skill and gear are both necessary to form power. One might even say that "power = skill * gear". If gear between the two forms were normalized, the elitist drive would compel most players to seek the fastest/easiest/strongest items, regardless of their source. (Or fear retribution - "my dear sir, I find you to be inadequate, as you have not realized that the optimal item for said slot is to be found within the other form of gameplay, and is achievable by anyone.")
Now, they could make the game primarily skill-based, with gear having little-to-no effect. (Think 5% boost or less.) Essentially, you could walk in naked and perform as well as (or better than) another person in the best gear, assuming your skill was better. In that world, gear would be primarily appearance-centric, and more of a perk than a requirement.
Would that be better? Would we continue to play, knowing that (for most) there is no incentive to repeat completed content? Taking it further, would we shift our focus from better gear to more options, demanding scores of bosses and/or optional modes of play? (Think Sartharion and Ulduar.)
But would it be better?
(cutaia) Mar 7th 2012 5:00PM
"If gear between the two forms were normalized, the elitist drive would compel most players to seek the fastest/easiest/strongest items, regardless of their source. (Or fear retribution - "my dear sir, I find you to be inadequate, as you have not realized that the optimal item for said slot is to be found within the other form of gameplay, and is achievable by anyone.")"
Exactly. I don't want to feel like I haven't done my best as a raider this week because I didn't grind out both Valor points for one nice piece, and Conquest points for a second nice piece.
I doubt PvPers want to feel compelled to raid for fear they'll lose in Arena to the team that got a ton of raid drops and didn't have to sacrifice anything (be it resilience or PvP Power) in order to toss them on and hop right back into Arena.
Dazzin Mar 7th 2012 5:42PM
If we had One set of gear and say, used the points from either dungeons or battlegrounds to purchase appropriate 'bonuses or enchants' and ran it like the duel specialization - could that work. You click over to the other Stat tree when going from PvP to PvE and so forth. You can either take points and buys some new nifty gear items or pick them up as dungeon drops but the rest is done by spending points to "Duel Spec the Gear" so that a button click takes you from one to the other with minimal hassle and less bag usage.
Battleground glyphs and gems in one spec set and the PvE/Dungeon specific ones in another -. Earn your points or celebrate your drops, but keep the change from the knickers out down to a minimum so that you don't have to carry up to 4 sets of gear (dps/heals = 2 just to do one or the other. If you want to do both 1 PvP set for each = 2, 1 PvE set for each =2) this stuff adds up quick.
Firestyle Mar 7th 2012 5:52PM
I just want to make it clear that the devs don't think Americans deserve a coffee break. We just have to have a quick conversation at the water cooler. The Europeans get a coffee break - but not us.
Anyway, I live in NY and I like my coffee. I haven't seen a water cooler in an office since I moved out of the burbs by DC. Ah, life is good as a New Yorker!