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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsIs reforging a hit or a miss?
by Anne Stickney 
Mar 12th 2012 at 7:00PM
It's always the same. Just when I get everything all sorted out neatly, a new piece of upgrade gear drops. If I win the gear, the next half-hour or so after raid is spent digging up gems, cutting them to the appropriate cut, then nabbing enchant mats and making sure the item is enchanted properly. And after all that is done and I put the gear on, I log out and back into the game so that the armory updates. Then I alt-tab out of the game and pull up my reforge site du jour (rogues, Shadowcraft is an amazing, amazing thing), put the window on my second monitor, tab back into the game and reforge it all.
And hopefully when I'm done with all of that, I'll have precisely enough hit to cap without going over, and all of that useless crit will be a thing of the past. It's not a hugely complicated process, but it is a process -- one that I repeat with each new piece of gear I obtain. I generally get far more out of reforging than I ever did with simple gemming and enchanting from the Wrath era. However, I also understand all these different stats and which ones are good, something a new player might not be aware of.
So is the reforging process a hit with this expansion or a miss?
And hopefully when I'm done with all of that, I'll have precisely enough hit to cap without going over, and all of that useless crit will be a thing of the past. It's not a hugely complicated process, but it is a process -- one that I repeat with each new piece of gear I obtain. I generally get far more out of reforging than I ever did with simple gemming and enchanting from the Wrath era. However, I also understand all these different stats and which ones are good, something a new player might not be aware of.
So is the reforging process a hit with this expansion or a miss?
I remember the days of Wrath and how complex it was to get gear. You wanted a specific piece of gear for a specific set of stats to reach a specific number. While you waited for that ideal piece of gear, you had to make do with whatever gear you happened to find and hope that the numbers added up. For example, rogues look for a specific amount of hit at all times. If you couldn't make it to the ideal hit number with gear alone, you had to gem for hit, as much as you could, in the hopes that you'd reach that ideal number.
Should that be something that's put into place? Should the reforgers perhaps make subtle recommendations to new players on what they ought to be after? Not an outright refusal to reforge, of course, but perhaps seeing a mage reforge all crit to stam could result in a snooty "... Are you sure about that?" from the ethereal reforgers.
In the end, though, I can't really argue with The Grumpy Elf's assessment -- we have never been so in control of our gear and the benefits we gain from it. Reforging is an incredibly useful tool that allows players to have a say in what their gear does for them, rather than simply hoping for that one ideal piece that never, ever seems to drop.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 5)
alapin Mar 12th 2012 9:56PM
* The above reference is in regards to Elemental Shamans, Balance Druids, and Shadow Priests only as spirit is still an unnecessary stat for Mages and Warlocks...
Just to correct myself before people jump down my throat about them.
neminem Mar 12th 2012 10:15PM
It's much better than it used to be before reforging existed. They just need to make the hit cap a soft cap so you aren't constantly either missing a little bit of hit, or wasting some stats, and it'd be perfect. I like being able to reforge things into more useful things... I just don't enjoy having to play a metagame of "solve this series of equations to get the closest to a particular amount of hit" every time I get a new piece of gear.
Boobah Mar 13th 2012 4:53AM
It sounds like you're either asking for hit to get diminishing returns (so that as you get closer to 100% it becomes less useful than other stats) or for hit to do something else once you get above 100% that, while nice, is less valuable than actually hitting more often.
The first one will make the math even more of a pain than it is now. The second either doesn't change anything (you're still going to aim for as close to the exact cap as you can, with anything over the cap effectively a waste) or it breaks the whole idea of a hit cap, because even post-cap hit will be worth more than any other secondary stat.
rayden54 Mar 12th 2012 10:19PM
I think that reforging is a big miss. It's too complicated. To do a "decent" job, yeah just knowing the stat weights is ok, but the "best" setups usually involve reforging AWAY from a stat in one place, and then reforging BACK to the same stat in another place.
For most people, it means letting a program do it for them (although I've never had one give me the same answer twice).
If they removed the cappable stats (hit and expertise) I might not dislike it as much. Right now though, changing out one piece means I've got to change the reforging on every single piece.
JuicedCardinal Mar 12th 2012 10:40PM
Do you think reforging has contributed a bit to the incredibly high prices of red gems, relative to the other colors? After all, if you can balance your secondary stats well enough, you are allowed to gem for your pure stat, whether it be strength, intellect or agility, and those are all red gems, since usually those give the best boosts to your gear.
My thoughts are that it probably contributes a fair deal, though it could be easily changed if Blizzard decided to mix up the gem colors.
Shrikesnest Mar 13th 2012 10:04AM
Not really. The reason that red gems are so expensive is that one point of your primary stat is eight times more valuable than any of your secondary stats from a DPS perspective. This ensures that higher ilvl gear is always an upgrade, but has weird effexts on the economy.
HalcyonGT Mar 12th 2012 11:01PM
Reforging is an interesting concept but one that admittedly, I have no clue how to effectively use it. I don't raid and I mainly run PUG Heroics. Out of curiosity I asked a fellow Frost DK guildmate how to better push my dps...and his response was classic.
"I dunno, I just plug my character into askmrrobot.com"
Thats a problem IMHO. What good is the addition to the game if you have to use resources out of the game to benefit from it? I'm not bitching about reforging mind you. Hell, I think its long overdue for some folks. I'm just saying...suggestions from within the game itself should steer you in the right direction. On that note alone I vote "Miss".
Boobah Mar 13th 2012 5:10AM
That's not a problem with reforging; that's a problem with stats in general.
Neirin Mar 12th 2012 11:50PM
I think the idea of reforging was a good one, but the way it's worked out leaves much to be desired. The system doesn't lend itself to easy mental calculations even for people who know what they're doing let alone fresh players. Most people I know use some site or addon (i.e. 3rd party resources) to figure out how to reforge. I feel like that represents a failure of game design - people shouldn't feel compelled to rely on outside sources to understand the game. Blizz added the dungeon journal because they feel the same way.
I'd like some sort of reforging preview-like feature that let me mess around with my stats in-game before spending money on it. It could be like filling out a talent tree: pick all the stats you want to reforge and once you've got everything all set, you hit a "reforge" button and everything gets done at once. This is basically what addons and websites provide already, but having it built into the game (even in a simplified version) would be a big step forward.
Perry Mar 13th 2012 12:28AM
This, a thousand times this! If some addon developer can make a preview feature, bliz could do it better.
tiwuno Mar 13th 2012 12:07AM
It's been said four times already, but AskMrRobot.com is a great resource that everyone at the level cap should get to know and love when it comes to reforging, gemming, and enchanting.
That being said, if reforging could ever be considered a "success" in the most literal sense of the word, third party sites, programs, and addons should be unnecessary for a player to optimize him or herself.
Killik Mar 13th 2012 8:10AM
I kind of agree, although by the same standard almost nothing of this game could be considered a success: Boss strategies, spell rotations, PvP, pet collecting, even holiday events.
Mondi Mar 13th 2012 12:10AM
I think reforging is fantastic for two reasons.
1. Hard caps of some stats, like hit or expertise. Reforging makes these a lot more "Friendly" with reaching and maintaining.
2. Some gear slots just don't have a lot of options, especially when there are tiers with only 7 or 8 bosses. An example is the cloak slot in tier 13. You either buy a cloak with VP or you just don't get one this tier. And if that one and only cloak isn't good enough because of secondary stats reforging makes it work.
viciouspen Mar 13th 2012 12:15AM
they need some kind of introduction process to reforging.
As is I've had a few friends that started playing and I have to be the reforging tutorial for them.
not only that, but they had NO idea reforging even existed as it doesn't reference it in the game.
I had to take them to the shop, show them, then they go "oh wow that is neat and useful".
If nothing else they need to introduce players to it.
Lipstick Mar 13th 2012 2:52AM
I think that reforging in general is a good idea, but I definitely feel as if there is a high brow / low brow understanding of it, which can be both good and bad.
The low brow understanding is knowing what reforging is. Knowing if you're under hit cap you can use it to help get you to cap for example. This deals with stats on more of a 1 on 1 basis. Many people in this camp tend to download add-ons which tell them exactly what to reforge. While I think these add-ons can be great and helpful for a newer player ..
The danger here, is that you're trusting the author of the add-on to keep the reforging needs for your class and spec, up to date -- and to agree with you. {The same holds true for wowreforge.com and askmrrobot.com }
I don't want to say that these add ons or these sites are bad. For a lot of people, they're actually really great resources -- and they even work right out of the box for some classes, but for a class like a disc priest, who favors all of their secondary stats -- some more than others depending on whether they tank heal, or raid heal primarily-- are in 10 or 25 man raids, and heroic or non heroic mode content -- these modifiers will greatly effect which stats you should be aiming for.
An add on of this nature isn't really going to do you justice, and in fact can encourage you to reforge for the wrong thing, as it doesn't tend to know all the minutia details of every class / spec.
---------------
For the high brow perspective -- this feature is really great for those who do understand what all those modifiers I mentioned before, whether they tank heal, or raid heal primarily-- are in 10 or 25 man raids, and heroic or non heroic mode content. If you have at rue understanding of your class and which secondary stats are ideal for whatever content you are doing -- you're able to use reforging to really up your game play and take it to the next level.
The trouble is that there is also a bit of a middle-ground -- someone who maybe knows the goals they're going for, but doesn't maybe understand how to use a simcraft or how to edit wowreforge or askmisterobot to the coefficients they want for each stat. For someone like me who I feel sort of falls into this catagory -- I am far more advanced than a for lack of a better term "noob" out the gate, and I understand what stats I ought to be going for, but someone like me tends to get a bit lost in the scuffle and probably doesn't 100% make use of wow-reforge to the absolute best possible potential.
While I think that complexity in decision making is good -- especially in a game such as warcraft which gets so much flack for being too "easy" I do feel as if whenever you have areas where there is a range of players who understand what a tool can do and it's potential and others who aren't quite sure or find themselves relying too heavily on outside resources to determine what they should be doing that this is a failure on blizzard's part design wise.
In other words, world of warcraft as a whole should not be designed with the understanding that people -will- use outside resources. It should be self contained, and there has never been from BC until now that sort of "hand holding" explanation of which stats you should use, and when there has been some things added to the game, it's added in such a way that it's a very dumbed down version of what needs to be out there.
I'm not sure players would enjoy a computer telling them what to choose for themselves. But if wow had a way of having an internal robot that could guide a player through better optimizing their gear based on what type of content they were pursuing it might go a long way towards bringing the high brow, low brow and middle brow understanding into line.
Killik Mar 13th 2012 6:28AM
It sounds like you're making pretty good use out of reforging right now. Surely a mechanic *should* be easy to get a benefit from, but hard to absolutely min-max?
dmberreth Mar 13th 2012 4:55AM
I like the concept, but all I honestly see is another gold sink. I've been far too casual this expansion, and when I get a new piece of gear - that stuff is expensive. I still like to play "right", and if I want my stats to push towards what is optimal, because I still like to be able to play my best, then I have to gem, enchant, and reforge all my gear correctly.
Being able to customize your gear more is awesome, but when you "need to do it this way" it doesn't really feel that custom any more.
Killik Mar 13th 2012 6:26AM
I really like reforging - the only thing I miss is the variety of gear that used to drop. Now there's a very clear pattern of slightly more primary stat per tier, plus reforgables.
Dude Mar 13th 2012 7:53AM
It sounded like a good idea at the time but the boosts are negligible.
Strawder Mar 13th 2012 8:22AM
You know, reforging to me was kind of like Algebra or something.
What I do is just go to Noxxic, do whatever Noxxic tells me to do for my Spec, insomuch as reforging, and boom, I'm good to go.