Officers' Quarters: Rock bottom
by Scott Andrews 
Mar 12th 2012 at 9:00AM
Guilds in WoW are a precarious fleet at this moment. With player activity stagnating, many guilds are like sinking ships. They survive only if their officers can bail water fast enough by replacing the players they've lost. Fickle players are quick to jump overboard and swim to a guild with fewer leaks, only to find that their new vessel isn't quite as watertight as it first appeared.
Today's email is from a guild leader whose hull has hit rock bottom. She wants to know whether to dredge up the wreck or shop around for a sturdier boat.
Hi Scott,
I am the leader of a guild that sadly has no more active members. My fiance and I started it to try out Cata raiding at our own pace with people we knew IRL but at the peak of the guild activity we could only get about 7 people together and getting everyone motivated to get their item level up high enough to attempt a raid was even tougher! I love playing a mage but found myself rolling a paladin and gearing up to be what the guild needed...tank or heals. I eventually got super burnt out with lack of effort and took a break from the game. Recently I have come back to a dead guild.
First of all, I'm sorry to hear about your guild. That sort of thing is happening more and more frequently these days. The only good part about hitting rock bottom is that you're now free to make a decision without worrying about how it might affect anyone else.I thought the desire to run my own guild would have been long gone after the failure a few months ago but I'd still love to do it. I had a blast setting everything up (ranks, guild bank tabs, vent, etc) and would definitely be settling for less if I were to join an already established guild. The main things I want out of a guild are FUN, maturity, cooperation, liveliness, consideration, dependability, and fairness. I would have loved to provide this to the best of my ability with plans for group runs of everything, fun guild events, a non-critical learn/teach as we go approach to raiding, and help with anything from information to materials but it was too difficult to try to get the guild off the ground by myself.
I guess my question comes down to this: Should I try once more to get the guild going or would it be best to try guild-hopping until I find an environment I like?
I appreciate any opinion you have on this because I'm so torn! Thank you...
Before I can recommend a course of action, the crucial questions that occur to me are these: How much experience do you have with MMO guilds, with WoW in general, and with online leadership roles? My answer mostly depends on your background.
In short supply
As the game faces its lowest active population in years, officers with experience who are willing to lead guilds are becoming harder and harder to find. If you have an extensive officer resume, then you should definitely keep trying.
Now is not the ideal time to rebuild, since player activity is still fairly low at the moment. I'm not convinced that the new Scroll of Resurrection bonuses will bring too many players back just yet.
However, as WoW gets closer to the release of Mists and especially right after the expansion's release, there will be an upsurge in player activity. Players will be returning to the game and looking for guilds that match their in-game preferences and goals. Taking advantage of that is your best bet if you want to start over from scratch.
Learn, then do
On the other hand, let's say you don't have a ton of experience with guilds or the game. I would recommend joining an established guild for the time being. Keep your own guild intact with one of your alts. It won't go anywhere.
Then make a thorough guild search across servers and factions. Find a community that is similar to how you envision yours in the future. That way, you'll be able to learn what works and what doesn't first-hand. You'll be able to understand the perspective of the average member within such a guild. You'll see how the officers' policies and decisions affect you.
If you're enthusiastic and willing to work hard on that guild's behalf, the officers will likely recognize that and eventually promote you. Getting some more officer experience under your belt will help you immensely when you take the step toward leading your own community again some day.
Lessons from the past
From what you've described, you can take two important lessons away from what happened with your original guild.
You sacrificed your own enjoyment to help the guild to raid. That is noble, but it led to a serious case of burnout. In the future, you have to make sure that whatever else may be happening, you're still enjoying the game. If you're not, you'll just head down that same path sooner or later.
Also, you can't force people to gear up. If your members aren't motivated, all you can do is encourage them to do so and offer to help. More often than not, that won't be enough. If the desire doesn't come from within, they won't stick with it.
That's why it's important to recruit players whose in-game goals are similar to your own. Ask about these goals on the guild application, so you'll know what they want from the game before you invite them.
Whatever decision you end up making, I wish you luck!
/salute
Officers' Quarters keeps your guild leadership on track to cope with sticky situations such as members turned poachers or the return of an ex-guild leader and looking forward to what guilds need in Mists of Pandaria. Send your own guild-related questions and suggestions to scott@wowinsider.com.
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Mycroft Mar 12th 2012 9:36AM
Good officer material is indeed in short supply! No offense intended to my guildies, but it's seeming like some of us don't really have what it takes to be a great officer, but we're still doing it because we seemed the best fit out of the volunteers.
Our guild has weekly guild meetings, with open floor right after basic announcements, and we certainly would have our eye on anyone who would show up consistently and show interest in guild business.
Sharlatan Mar 12th 2012 9:45AM
Is your server active, or dying? Because if its declining, if not already dead, don't start a new guild. You wont get anywhere. The existing guilds will be fighting tooth and claw over any decent players, and they have something you don't. Guild levels. Yep, you cant compete without them, that extra mount speed, extra profession bonus, bonus mats, pets, mounts, experience, JP, Honor, mass ress, travel spell.....all of that is what you, as a lowly level 1 guild has to compete with nowadays. At a time of poor raiding content, and neverbeforeseen competition for wow in the MMO market, its doubtful whether a new guild has much chance of sucess on any server, let alone one not in tip top conditon.
My main server is down to 3 raiding guilds on my faction, and ours is the longest running, most sucessful and can barely scrap raids together nowadays, and has to bring in pugs from our friends list to make raids sometimes. There is literally no one to recruit. All decent players have left the server or the game, and the applicants, those very rare ones we get, are of such poor quality its just not worth it. (un-gemmed, unenchanted, no class knowledge, and with a massively entitled attitude).
Be careful of counting on MOP to create an upsurge. Yes it will, but those people are likely to be gone in 2-3months too. And there are some great games comming out soon. ToR had an impact yes, but not too much. GW2, TSW and others are likely to make ToR look insignificant in terms on impact on WoW.
Just my opinion. I'm enjoying WoW right now, but then again, I've spent time in Rift and ToR and others...there is viable competition out there, and when GW2 comes out, I dont know if I'll stick it with WoW, its mainly the people that keep me here, and they are gradually leaving one by one.
I dont want to go all negative, but you really need to sit down and think about starting a guild in the current wow climate, you will have to work exceptionally hard to make it work. And the chances of success are low. If you can hack that reality, then best of luck to you. But I'd suggest it may be better to join a guild you like for now, esp as you've only recently come back, and see if you really want to make that kind of committment.
mr.e81 Mar 12th 2012 11:27AM
Enough with the "Doom and Gloom!" Some Servers are declining but not everyones. If it is that bad in your realm then move to a higher populated one and stop with the negative advice. All your trying to do is bum this guy out and convince him or her to give up. There is still opportunity out there to raid. People come and go with every type of game. I am sure the decline will plateau in the months leading up to MoP. I have seen my fair share of people leave WoW over the years. Most of them loved WoW, but left because their lives took on new responsibilities and they made the choice to leave. It is a fact of life. There are a lot of new players too. My guild is growing and most of the new level 85s show great interest in raiding. Grant it, the raid are just 10 mans but we have even join with other guilds to do 25 mans. People will adapt and enjoy the games as they want. Please do not discourage people because you are someone looking for the "Next Best Thing."
StClair Mar 12th 2012 1:01PM
"Doom and Gloom" or not, there are some IMO valid points in there that should be taken into account. It /will/ be hard to compete in a shrinking marketplace, especially as a new guild; and the flush of a new expansion will quickly fade, leaving you high and dry if you've been relying only on that.
eel5pe Mar 12th 2012 3:39PM
You're not on Hakkar are you?
Sharlatan isn't going "doom and gloom", he (or she) paints an accurate picture of what raiding is like on a dead server. Assembling your own raid group is all about finding a "diamond in the rough", the rare player who is competent, civil and respectful. Finding multiple diamonds on a largely empty server is extremely unlikely as most good players will be taken, and you'll find yourself vulnerable to having your members poached by more-progressed guilds.
pixelatedspace Mar 12th 2012 9:47AM
From one GL to another, you need to keep this in mind: We are running on older content, and this is where the hard core raiders, progression raiders that have completed content, and I believe LFR now, people go off to play other games. So before Cata where about 10% of the crowd went into hibernation, I think with LFR more people are since they have killed the bad guy and can go play something else.
But they will be coming back! Mist will have people back in droves and you will be a happy guild once again. My guild has over 130 people(340+ toons) and we used to be fairly active guild with 8-20 people on at any given time, and now it's pretty quiet and we are lucky to get 5 on. I too worry about being a dead guild but it's just that time where people grow weary of the content.
Another thing that has worked for us is a guild alliance where you can work with another guild to run things with. Being short on raiders, we have a great alliance with a guild and together we have cleared content we otherwise would have to waited for.
But hang in there! Grow the guild you want.
Silvarana
Lissanna Mar 12th 2012 9:52AM
My guild actually has a handful of ex-officers. They join our guild to get a break from having to be in charge of something. Then, after a number of months have passed, if they show signs of wanting to help with the leadership, we give them small tasks (like recruiting, evaluating player performance, etc). You can always join another guild and earn your way up into leadership ranks when you are ready.
ubergrendle Mar 12th 2012 10:00AM
Guilds used to be required to coordinate activities in game. Coordinate dungeon runs; arrange for premade battlegrounds; gear players for raiding; coordinate raiding (40 man!); in house crafting; forge legendaries.
Nowadays, unless you're in one of the rare guilds that still raids 25 man (or heroics) there's little need for guilds -- aside from getting the bonuses of the talents. Some guilds coordinate rated battelgrounds too, although these are much less common.
Looking for dungeon/battleground/raid; auction house anything. Arena teams don't require a guild. Gearing has never been easier. The *need* for a guild has never been lower.
Lissanna Mar 12th 2012 10:14AM
You still need guilds to have a sense of community and for friendship building. Being totally alone in a multi-player game just doesn't sound fun at all. What's the point of playing an MMO if you don't know any of the people you are playing with at all?
Lars Petersson Mar 12th 2012 12:13PM
@Lissanna; Although you are largely right, it seems to me that Blizzard has been slowly engineering the player experience so these 'artificial' groups are no longer needed.
The x-realm dungeon finder removed the need for a server community, x-realm raid finder has removed the need for guilds to organise raids.
Other than guilds that have a very specific focus, progression/pvp/RP/etc, guilds are really just a glorified chat channel these days.
And since we can chat to our out-of-game friends via Real-ID chat, group/raid with them and, I expect, soon (I'm guessing 5.1 or 5.2) do so x-faction, guilds are becoming even more unnecessary, other than for specialised purposes.
loli.gigis Mar 12th 2012 10:10AM
Another option is to make your guild into a leveling guild, get it leveled with players that you like. As people finish leveling and gearing they might show interest in casual raiding. It would give you time to level up alts that you want to play, get to know people and see if they would be interested in end game content. When you are getting to the point of filling your roster you guild will be higher level and easier to recruit. In the mean time you can run pugs with those who are geared to see Firelands (you won't have a problem filling that roster! people still want legendaries!) and as you run those pugs you might find raiders that will be willing to join your guild. I have to say people will leave level 25 guilds to go raid the way they want to.
I am in a progressive raiding guild (although I am more of a fill in then a regular raider) and in a max level guild, my husband left because the raid team's style just wasn't his. After pugging several times with his current guild he left and joined them, they were barely into the double digits. He liked the perks of my guild but the desire to raid his way was higher and more important.
Chucker Mar 12th 2012 10:32AM
Quite frankly, this is going to be one of the roughest transition periods to survive. Many guilds that started in the vanilla/BC days are finding that their members who were once college students are now professions in the world with difficulties maintaining raiding schedules. Recent changes with the easier normal modes and LFR are also making it difficult for casual raid guilds to survive.
I think over time what you are going to see are the usual hardcore guilds doing what they usually do, and then about a dozen or so social/softcore guilds that may or may not be raiding together as a guild (and, if so, just barely). LFR has done a lot towards making sure that raids are accessible, but they have, IMHO, killed the cohesion of most casual guilds. Burnout of players who have been playing WoW for many years is also not helping.
I admit, the only reason I still raid today is because of the people I raid with, and not necessarily the raid content. While that can still be fun sometimes, I think of it more like hanging out at a bar after hours, playing darts and being with friends. Fortunately a version of our guild has transitioned to SWTOR, so even if/when our WoW branch ends, I can still be with my friends.
mr.e81 Mar 12th 2012 11:33AM
Logical. I like this. People change and players adapt to the game. Good advice!
tokig0313 Mar 12th 2012 10:16AM
Hang in there! Many of us have been there or come close. The guild I'm currently GM of originates from a Dark Age of Camelot guild that transferred to WoW the day the servers went live. It's been through I believe 4 GMs, countless officers, and I think at present, there is only about 8 people in the guild that predate my joining around the start of WotLK.
Your core values are great and speaking from experience, you can find members that fit those values. Recruitment is never easy. We've been trying to recruit both on our server, but also further afield and it takes some creativity to get the message out at times.
Start small. Find people you enjoy playing with and build from there. Get a group together that can run 5 mans and then build up towards that perfect 10 man. You will have people join that are great "members", but perhaps are not "raiders" for one reason or another. Don't get rid of them. They tend to be the ones that come out in force for social events or fun nights.
As for officers, my best advice there is to figure out what you need first. We currently have a myself, my sanity keeper/guild banker, raid lord, social convenor, pvp lord, and two recruitment officers (they work as a bit of a tag team). Some of those roles have been left empty for periods of time with other officers helping fill voids if we were unable to find someone that "fit" the role at the time. Depending on the size of guild, you may need more or less, but try not to get too top heavy too quickly.
Lastly, get the message out there. There are lots of "raiding" guilds out there that tend to focus far more on the raiding aspect and less so on the more random and social side of things. You're offering something that can very much so appeal to those just starting out at wow, but also to those who are burned out from the higher level of raiding. Slower pace with a more friendly learning environment does not mean your guild is incapable of raiding or shouldn't be considered less valuable. We still cherish and celebrate our victories. Sure other guilds might have killed Deathwing before us, but we believe he is not dead until a group of determined guildies have vanquished him for ourselves.
Ominous Mar 12th 2012 10:17AM
Do what makes you happy. If the thought of administering a guild doesn't thrill you, then pass leadership to someone else or join another.
Whatever you do, do it to keep active. The game would be poorer without such thoughtful people.
wmbrguild Mar 12th 2012 10:17AM
You already burnt out once. You have to have some pretty thick skin to run a guild. On top of that, you're level of dedication needs to be above the rest. At least at the very beginning. Is it really a shock that when you left people vanished?
When we started, I set a deadline of when I wanted a regular run established. Had I not made it, I would have given up. It took tons of time. It also took up ALL of my game time. I wasn't able to play alts or just log in to mess around for fun. I spent the entire online time dealing with guild business.
Someone mentioned older content. That could be a plus at this point. People looking for good solid guilds are getting desperate too. With lack of leadership puts the guilds that do have established leaders in high demand.
Kanago Mar 12th 2012 10:20AM
Being a successful GM requires a lot more than just setting up ranks and putting events on the calendar. In order to keep a guild thriving, it's important to make day-to-day decisions that benefit the guild and inspire member confidence, and to foster a social environment that makes people want to stick around. Organization is great, but active leadership is far more important.
Gendou Mar 12th 2012 10:28AM
There are lots and lots of people who think they know how to run a guild.
They may even have a few success stories to share to prove that they are a good leader.
However, in my seven years of experience as a guild officer, I have found that there are very few who actually know how to do it.
Puntable Mar 12th 2012 10:41AM
Do you intend to raid? The skills for leading a guild and the skills for leading a raid are much different. I took over a 10man raiding guild when the GL quit the game. I has to shift gears and make it a leveling and dungeon guild. We did old content raids for achievements and mounts, and now we do LFR twice per week. Trying to get a raiding guild started is a catch-22. You can't start raiding without 10 people that are geared and know how to raid. People that are geared and know how to raid want to join a guild that is already raiding.
You didn't say what level your guild is. If your guild is level 25 it will help a lot.
Firestyle Mar 12th 2012 11:06AM
I suggest Scott go to a higher populated server to reform. My experience with the 'come-back' crowd for a new xpac is really that most of these players aren't reliable and will eventually quit sooner or later. They help make the game fun for a time, but the reality is the quit once and will quit again. His best bet is to find players who are still interested in active play now and make them the people he and his fiance play with in MoP. They are less likely to abandon after tiers 14/15 in MoP.
It might not be a nice thing, but it's a reality. I've seen to many comebacks quit this xpac.