Encrypted Text: Shuriken Toss breaks all the rules

Raise your hand if you remember fighting against Shazzrah. I'm not talking about our recent bout with Shannox or even our old fights against Mother Shahraz. Shazzrah goes way back, to WoW's very first raid instance, Molten Core. Due to the frequent AoE explosions that Shazzrah unleashed, rogues couldn't engage him without being slaughtered immediately. While the rest of the raid fought the boss, I joined the other rogues in my group crushing Blindweed and making some food next to the Cooking Fire.
As a melee class, our biggest weakness for years has been that we can only deal damage to nearby targets. It's limited our ability to swap targets effectively, our ability to avoid point-blank AoE attacks, and our ability to attack any target that's not on the ground. Rogues, along with other melee classes, have actually been benched because of these limitations. These shackles and restrictions have bound our class since its inception.
Shuriken Toss has the chance to change all that. The new level 90 rogue talent slated for Mists of Pandaria might redefine what it means to play a rogue.

I'm not complaining. Imagine this image with me: a rogue standing resolute, alternating hands deftly producing instruments of pain from hidden pouches, subsequently launching these deadly shuriken at his unsuspecting target. A flurry of steel and glimmers of reflections from the blades are all his opponent sees before being vanquished.
Our current toolbox doesn't work
We've had Throw and Deadly Throw for years, but neither has seen regular use. I think I tossed a couple of Deadly Throws toward Atramedes in Cataclysm, but that's about it. Wait, I did actually use Throw during Morchok's Black Blood phases, before I realized that between Cloak of Shadows and a bribe to my raid's healers, I could just stay in melee range instead.
Deadly Throw used to be a valuable asset in PvP when combined with the interrupt bonus from our PvP set gloves. Once that feature was removed, DT fell off the action bars of most rogues. We have always lacked a potent ranged attack, and Shuriken Toss looks to change that. It will be especially important since there's a strong possibility that we'll lose Throw altogether in Mists.
How strong is Shuriken Toss?
The proof of the pudding is in the eating, as they say. Shuriken Toss, at first blush, seems perfect for the job of adding a ranged attack to our arsenal. It costs a moderate amount of energy, deals a moderate amount of damage at a moderate range, and provides us with a combo point. It's quite obvious that we'll always want to combine Deadly Throw with Shuriken Toss to give us an outlet for our combo points when dealing sustained ranged damage.
The question is how powerful Shuriken Toss ends up being. If the damage is too low, it won't be worth our time. If it doesn't apply poisons, it may not be effective enough in PvP. Are there going to be any glyphs to affect it? Shuriken Toss can usher in a new era of ranged rogue DPS, or it could simply be an ability of last resort for those moments where we're waiting for Baron Geddon to finish exploding.

Regardless of how good Shuriken Toss ends up being, rogues are always going to be a melee class first. We have too many mechanics and abilities and talents that rely on melee range. Don't expect to see rogue standing back with the mages and warlocks any time soon. Melee is always going to be our bread and butter, and that's never going to change.
What is changing is what we're capable of when our bread and butter is missing. Now, when we're without the ability to melee our targets, we can still remain somewhat functional. We can build up combo points for when we're back in melee range; we might be able to keep our poisons applied and maybe even deal some damage while we're at it. Shuriken Toss isn't about enabling rogues to become a ranged class. It's about giving us something to bridge the gap between enemies.
A rogue's most powerful weapon is his versatility. We've got a cooldown or an ability for nearly every situation, and that preparedness and flexibility gives us the upper hand in our encounters. With Shuriken Toss further developing that story, rogues look to be more capable than ever.
And come on, you can't tell me it's not going to be sweet, sweet revenge when you kill your first frost mage with Shuriken Toss while you're frozen inside of his Frost Nova.
Filed under: Rogue, (Rogue) Encrypted Text






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Imnick Mar 14th 2012 9:13AM
You'd hope it's not THAT versatile, else it'd completely sideline the other two talents (ironically, one of which called versatility)
Blizzard want all three choices to be viable
Killik Mar 14th 2012 9:23AM
It would, however, be super funny if Versatility got sidelined because it wasn't versatile enough :)
Kaeri Mar 14th 2012 12:43PM
You'd think they'd have Anticipated that.
ScrubRogue Mar 15th 2012 10:05AM
Sad...but I lolled
wowlumi Mar 15th 2012 2:49PM
If it does come to that point Blizzard will likely nerf it or remove it entirely. Just look at what they did to Corpse Explosion and Outbreak - they didnt think Explosion was versatile enough so they chucked it to possibly be reborn as a glyph and Outbreak was too versatile to leave the class without it so they made it baseline again.
Keep in mind they are also discussing ways to change talents more readily, something along the lines of the current glyph system. So it may come to pass that we are able to change our talents as easily as we change glyphs. I cant imagine that on every fight would Shuriken Toss necessarily be the most useful. Maybe the boss is in range for the vast majority of the fight or maybe theres a deadly add phase where interrupting may considerably reduce the need for healing on the tanks, no one knows.
Alas, Blizzard may end up moving the spell to another tier in the tree, or change one of the competing talents to make it more attractive. Im certain they will listen to the rogue communities concerns and address them accordingly. Of course, as a Death Knight mainly, I still dont have any hope for our tier 5 choices. Not very interesting choices at all.
On a seperate note: When I was playing my twink rogue and warrior and again when I leveled them I used to have the greatest fun when someone was almost dead (namely the squishy mage XD ) and they would root me thinking they had escaped, only for me to whip out my bow or shuriken and finish them off! lol I could only sit there and imagine what must have went through their minds when they realized they were dead
Vorenus Mar 14th 2012 9:18AM
NINJAS FOR LIFE!!!
Killik Mar 14th 2012 9:24AM
Who said that?? D:
themightysven Mar 14th 2012 11:19AM
Ninjas for Death!
Namssob Mar 14th 2012 9:20AM
Can't wait. The only disagreement I have is you don't give enough credit to Deadly Throw. True, it's not quite as good as it was a year ago. But the 50% movement speed reductions is sometimes the ONLY way a Rogue can catch an escaping enemy in Arena or a BG. I use it often when in a freeze trap, or stuck with CP's and need to stop my enemy.
Statutory Mar 14th 2012 9:33AM
I remember a short lived bug during vanilla that resulted in the effective removal of the GCD on Shoot for rogues and I think warriors. Basically, you could shoot bullets/arrows as fast as you could click the button. I distinctly recall a game of AB where myself and 2 other rogues getting Frost Nova'd near the flag at BS. Almost simultaneously, we all pulled out our bows or guns and unloaded shots into the same mage, exploding him as at the terminal end of his Blink. This is a fond fond memory of mine. Especially since at the time I was sporting full Bloodfang and a Gurubashi Dwarf Destroyer and looked MEAN.
While I understand how overpowered this was, the memory has always made me feel like there was something missing from the rogue class. As it is right now, hitting Throw while Nova'd feels like I am tossing some week old noodles at my target. Even worse, I can't seem to learn how to throw that tiny object while simultaneously moving my feet. I also can't really remember the last time that I cast Deadly Throw and felt like it was a good idea. If executed properly, Shuriken Toss might actually offer some defense against LoLIceLanceSpam gameplay for rogues. Here is hoping.
JattTheRogue Mar 14th 2012 10:15AM
Yeah, that's one thing that's always bothered me, how completely, totally useless Throw is. Why is it that hunters can shoot guns, crossbows and bows while running around and jumping and disengaging and all that, and we rogues can't just toss a simple throwing knife while moving? And don't say "training;" we've obviously had training with throwing weapons since we have Deadly Throw. And as far as gameplay mechanics go, I don't think it would be overpowered to let us use a really weak attack while moving in hopes of poisoning the target. The cooldown could still be the same, but it seems sort of ridiculous to have a cast time on tossing a blade. I always feel like a grade-A chump when I see my rogue sit there and carefully line up his throw before launching it.
Vorenus Mar 14th 2012 9:59AM
We can always dream it will be vastly overpowered, like Ninja Scroll OP!!
--like here: http://youtu.be/rtFoQUNxIPo
Nothing like a storm of shuriken to give ya goosebumps...
viciouspen Mar 14th 2012 10:15AM
for anyone interested in this kind of redesign of the rogue class discussion we've actually had a very successful thread going on over in the Mists of Pandaria section of the forums, that's up to for continuations now.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4079846809?page=1
You can see from even part one where we were talking about laying out a new rogue combo generator that was a ranged throwing move. I doubt we can take most of the credit for that on the talent calculator but I'd like to think we had a little something to do with it.
Any and all rogues are welcome to jump in and help out with the discussion.
Shrikesnest Mar 14th 2012 10:15AM
An interesting change that mirrors the removal of minimum range from hunters.
As the only melee class without a ranged or tank tree, Rogues really do hurt a lot more at range than even warriors. Nothing akin to Exorcism, Lightning Bolt or Death Coil. It's just a pity that you'll need to talent into it, but one suspects that Blizzard wants rogue and warrior alike to retain something of their exclusively melee flavor; blurring the line instead of obliterating it outright.
In A World (XBL) Mar 14th 2012 4:35PM
Agreed Rogues hurt the worst, but I would also like to see Warrior given a decent ranged ability. I'm thinking "Shoot" for Warriors rather than weapon tosses, but it's spammable, no minimum range, uses rage (or generates rage depending on how they want warriors to manage rage) and has a 20 yrd max range so they're not too much like hunters.
Bumblebee Mar 14th 2012 6:50PM
@In A World
Wouldn't a Throwing Spear fit the Warrior better than a gun?
neogramps Mar 15th 2012 7:01AM
Aren't warriors losing ranged weapons?
Bumblebee Mar 15th 2012 7:11PM
@Neogramps Only Hunters will have ranged weapons. However, there's no reason they couldn't design abilities that in their animations used weapons not equipped. Rogues don't have 15 daggers, but all of them can still FoK around.
In A World (XBL) Mar 15th 2012 10:09PM
@Bumblebee
Oooo maybe Warriors could throw their banners, causing damage, similar to the totem on the Echo of Baine fight. Also, Shattering Throw should be spammable, instead of being on a 5 minute cooldown. Less powerful to compensate, of course.
Candy Man Mar 14th 2012 10:20AM
I hope this means Exorcism will generate Holy Power in MoP, and likewise for DKs and warriors with their respective "long-range" attacks.