Mists of Pandaria: Raid Finder loot system changes clarified
by Matthew Rossi 
Mar 19th 2012 at 5:50PM
Zarhym -- The new LFR roll system
First, other players will not affect your loot in any way. Another player winning will not cause you to lose. Another player winning a mace will not mean that she took your mace. If there are many rogues in the raid, your chance of winning a rogue item is not diminished. We may decide that each player has an X% chance to get loot, or we may decide that X number of players get loot, and then randomly determine who those lucky players are.
Second, the item you win will be "useful" in the sense that it's potentially usable by your current spec. This does not mean that warriors will get leather because warriors can equip leather (at a huge stat loss). It also does not mean that the game will always give you an item you want or an upgrade for the items you have. It just looks and says "You are a Holy priest, so here is a random item chosen from the Holy priest-appropriate items that this boss can drop."
Second, the item you win will be "useful" in the sense that it's potentially usable by your current spec. This does not mean that warriors will get leather because warriors can equip leather (at a huge stat loss). It also does not mean that the game will always give you an item you want or an upgrade for the items you have. It just looks and says "You are a Holy priest, so here is a random item chosen from the Holy priest-appropriate items that this boss can drop."
You'll still have a chance to not get the item you want and have to come back again, but at least this will curb that hideous sinking sensation of seeing Gurthalak drop and knowing yet again that someone else is going to get it instead of you, leading to hostility. Zarhym then goes on to explain the bonus roll system, which is a roll you can effectively trade in for a guarantee of some kind of reward, be it extra gold or a random drop from the boss. At present, this is all only for the Raid Finder, with a possibility of seeing the systems in dungeons if it works out.
It's open warfare between Alliance and Horde in Mists of Pandaria, World of Warcraft's next expansion. Jump into five new levels with new talents and class mechanics, try the new monk class, and create a pandaren character to ally with either Horde or Alliance. Look for expansion basics in our Mists FAQ, or dig into our spring press event coverage for more details!
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Raiding, Mists of Pandaria
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
omedon666 Mar 19th 2012 5:55PM
This is so smart as a, direct or not, counter to GW2's loot designation with loot and lack of competing over loot. PVE isn't supposed to be about competing unless you purposely enter a competitive tier of content set aside for that kind of play, and randomized group assembly is not that place.
Bravo, Blizz, good move.
omedon666 Mar 19th 2012 6:00PM
Think I could have fit "loot" anymore into that first sentence? LOL
xenothaulus Mar 19th 2012 6:36PM
I like Diablo 3's loot system, and this seems a step in that direction, which is a good thing.
smartazjb0y Mar 19th 2012 5:56PM
So they haven't actually determined who gets loot? I'm a fan of a set amount of players getting loot off each boss. The "each player has an x% change to get loot" seems like it'd be possible for everyone to get loot if the rolls ended up that way, I'm more a fan of each boss dropping a set amount of loot. Determining which players get that loot could be by everyone rolling and the top....say, 6 get loot, or maybe there's a set roll number and the 6 players who get closest to that roll number get loot.
Draelan Mar 19th 2012 7:18PM
I'm actually against the set number of people get loot, thing, as there's still the potential for people to get screwed out of loot by people who are already geared, that way. For example:
Say you have a group with a mix of people who need gear, and those who don't. They down the first boss in the raid, and then it comes time to roll and see which 4 people will get loot. Of course, all the people who need loot off this boss roll... however, several people who are geared and DON'T need loot roll as well on the premise that they'll either get to DE an item if they win, or vendor it for some gold if they can't DE it. This means that people who actually need gear might lose out on getting anything because there are players who would rather be greedy and win something to vendor than be nice and pass so strangers can get gear they need.
And don't tell me that this wouldn't happen, because we all know it would.
Lloren Mar 19th 2012 7:20PM
The problem with a "set number of people with the top 6 (or whatever) rolls gets loot" is that in a way your chances of getting loot are almost worse than they are now. Because at least now you would only be competing for a particular item with the other raid members capable of using that item whereas in that system every roll would be against every other raid member since everyone will be rolling every time.
Boobah Mar 19th 2012 8:53PM
If the boss drops four pieces of loot, you have a 16% chance of winning one; if you win you get a piece of loot that suits the spec you came in on. Most of the time it'll take less than five kills to get a piece of loot.
Right now, Madness has a 15% chance to drop a Ti'tahk (on four loot rolls). And then you still have to fight with the rest of the raid's casters to get it. If even two others will roll on it, it's now lower than your chances with the Mists system (where after your 16% chance on winning loot, you've got at best a 50% chance of getting the staff instead of the dagger or mace, depending on whether you heal or DPS)
Draelan Mar 19th 2012 10:31PM
Hm... I think this is the first time I've ever been down-voted, and the only reason I can see for it is people would prefer the "Top X rollers get loot" system, so I got down-voted for disagreeing. To each their own, I guess.
Soulestream Mar 19th 2012 11:13PM
@Draelen
I am guessing you don't do LFR that much.
I imagine this was down voted, because the flaw in your statement is this already happens.
Currently if say there are 6 hunters for Madness. 2 of the same bow drops. 4 hunters already have the bow. 5-6 hunters are rolling need on it, as you said for whatever reason (greed, stupidity, or just being a jerk)
This doesn't fix the problem, but it really doesn't make it worse.
Draelan Mar 19th 2012 11:33PM
@ soulestream
Actually, I have a couple toons I've been running LFR with. And the fact that this already happens is entirely my point. Unless I'm gravely misinterpreting something, the major reason for this change in loot rules is to alleviate the frustration such practices cause to players who are rolling on loot because they actually intend to use it. The "top X rollers wins" as you said, does not make things worse than it is now, but it does not particularly HELP, either, which is why I dislike that option.
There are, of course, issues with the other mentioned possibility if it's taken at face value. As pointed out by Pyromelter in another comment, if it's simply "Anyone who rolls higher than X wins loot" than it's possible for everyone to get loot off a boss and it's also possible for NO ONE to get loot off the boss. For exactly this reason, now that I've seen the issue, I don't think a system that works like that would be suitable, either.
In the end, I don't think whatever system Blizzard decides on will be quite so simplistic, and I'm sure they will carefully consider the pros and cons before making a final decision.
Soulestream Mar 20th 2012 11:43AM
I don't think this was to alleviate that, because they don't currently have a good way of doing it. What it does do is give you a slightly higher chance at getting gear (RNG of course applies) as others have shown, but it also stops what a lot of guilds do which is take 15 people into LFR and gear whatever toons you need to get geared by stacking geared toons of the same class(or same tokens) and then needing all the gear and passing it to the one player.
I think the biggest change to the system isn't the roll system, but the item being BoP and un-tradeable.
Noyou Mar 19th 2012 5:58PM
Well, no one can say they are not trying to get the loot thing right. I like the ideas they have been trying out and am glad it is progressive.
Pyromelter Mar 19th 2012 5:59PM
"Basically, rather than rolling against people in the raid (as is the current system) your roll and the chance that you will or won't get loot will have nothing to do with other players at all."
but but...
"We may decide that each player has an X% chance to get loot, or we may decide that X number of players get loot, and then randomly determine who those lucky players are."
About as clear as a glass of mud :/
I will give Blizzard some credit though. I've maintained for a while now, any MMO that can develop a "smart" loot system, where the things that drop from a boss would be useful for at least one person in the raid, this would be a major advantage for that MMO. We've all seen that stupid spell plate drop when there isn't even a paladin in group. This looks like the beginning of a system that would prevent that from happening, and for that, I stand up and applaud the Blizzard developers.
I also like the idea of having one +bonus roll per run, so that if you are farming for one specific item, you can use that bonus roll on the boss that has that item. So even though this whole raid finder loot thing is not quite worked out yet, Blizz is definitely headed in the right direction.
loop_not_defined Mar 19th 2012 6:26PM
Either:
1) x% of total players (ex: top 3 rolls of 25 players) will each win a piece of loot, or
2) x+ of roll (ex: all rolls of 80+) will win a piece of loot.
What loot is awarded will be determined by spec+class of winners. It's possible to win something you already have, or something that's worse than what you have.
In example 2 it's theoretically possible for all 25 players in LFR to win something from a single boss, just improbable.
Jamus Mar 19th 2012 6:29PM
Here's how it works, let's say a Frost DK, a Ret Paladin, and a Shadow Priest walks into a bar, and they killed a boss that has a chance to drop a 2H Axe, DPS Plate Gloves, and a DPS Cloth Chest.
If you're doing LFR now, here's what happens. The computer chooses say, 2 drops out of that table (2H Axe and Cloth Chest), and assuming everyone is rolling for everything:
2H Axe
DK rolls 99 (+100)
Pally rolls 36 (+100)
Priest rolls 54
-> DK gets the 2H Axe.
Cloth Chest
DK rolls 84
Pally rolls 67
Priest rolls 30 (+100)
-> Priest gets the Cloth Chest.
If we change into an individual roll system, let's say everyone gets 25% chance to get a loot per boss, so you'll have to roll 25 or under to get a loot:
Pally rolls 23
DK rolls 17
Priest rolls 56
Pally gets something, so the computer makes a roll between 2H Axe and Plate Gloves and let's say Pally gets the 2H Axe.
DK gets something, so the computer rolls for him too, out of the same two items (since they're both plate DPS). Guess what, he gets a 2H Axe too!
Priesty gets nothing.
Now if we change to a X loots per boss system, say, 2 pieces of loot per boss:
The system randomly chooses 2 players, say, Pally/Priest.
The computer makes a roll out of the loot table for Pally (2H and Gloves again), and this time Pally gets the gloves.
Then the computer makes one for the Priest, and it'll always give the Priest the Cloth Chest since that's the only appropriate item, whether it's actually useful to him/her or not.
emberdione Mar 19th 2012 6:00PM
yeah... that makes it about as clear as snot. Thanks.
Possum Mar 20th 2012 7:52AM
Some snot is quite translucent.
Draelan Mar 19th 2012 6:00PM
So glad for this clarification! Been wondering about this since last night. Can't wait to see this in action.
loop_not_defined Mar 19th 2012 6:03PM
I think something similar to this still needs to be implemented for Normal/Heroic raids. I know Blizzard still wants the long gearing gateway for serious raiding, and the social aspect of loot distribution, but the latter has ALWAYS been a major factor in guild drama and even guild deaths.
Revynn Mar 19th 2012 6:24PM
Even if a guild falls apart "because of loot drama", the problem was never actually loot. It was the people in the guild/raid that were too selfish or immature to make their system work.