Yes. As an Alliance player, I am excited and kind of sad for the horde players. To not let them in on this is a little- well I'm not going to say totally unfair but it kind of is. I know everyone can roll an alliance player but still. It is 100% awesome that either side can have such an impact and get drawn in like this. I wouldn't mind if the horde got to take out any one of our leaders. Really, since there hasn't been much done with any of them. I had a fondness for Magni but they turned my uncle into a statue. Here's hoping both ally and horde get to donkey punch a faction leader by Mists end ;)

We're going to be down-voted into a black hole but it's okay. Wrynn is no different than Garrosh, just more Human, and by definition... more flawed. I was truly hoping that Blizzard would use this oportunity to give Hellscream's character more depth and maybe finally give the Orcs closure by allowing him to grow and find redemption.

R.I.P. Hellscream, we hardly knew you, and you hardly had a chance.

Yeah, Varian only made a guest appearance in ICC to tell Varok Saurfang he was wrong about the Wrathgate and that his son died a hero.

No different from Garrosh at all.

Actually its because they're both the ones banging the war drum as hard as they possibly can. Just in case you missed it your King is INSANE. Just because he was noble 1 time in all of cannon you give him a pass... or is it because of your alliance favoritism?

Funny how you jump straight to screeching favoratism when someone counters your unfavorable attitude towards Varian.

If you projected any harder I could use you as a railgun.

Well seeing as how I say Varian is just as bad as Garrosh and I get downvoted into oblivion what other answer could there be? They are the same character... only Varian is worse. He was in on the Nobles who screwed the masons of Stormwind out of the pay they needed most, which is why Westfall is full of the homeless. He then attempted to assassinate Thrall during the Battle of Undercity but thankfully Jaina stopped his insane action. Finally Varian sent SI:7 to kidnap Thrall. What did Garrosh do even close to those atrocities?

"Well seeing as how I say Varian is just as bad as Garrosh and I get downvoted into oblivion what other answer could there be?"

Maybe you're wrong. Oh, no, that's not possible, it MUST be blind favoritism, right?

"They are the same character..."

Don't state this as some kind of fact. It's not.

"He was in on the Nobles who screwed the masons of Stormwind out of the pay they needed most, which is why Westfall is full of the homeless."

Have you never heard of Onyxia? Have you never read the comic?

"He then attempted to assassinate Thrall during the Battle of Undercity but thankfully Jaina stopped his insane action."

Yeah, you'd almost think he just found out Thrall allowed humans to be caged and experimented on for the plague. Oh wait. HE DID.

"Finally Varian sent SI:7 to kidnap Thrall."

You do realize the implication behind the Alliance Twilight Highlands intro is that BENEDICTUS arranged that for the Twilight, don't you?

"What did Garrosh do even close to those atrocities?"

It has nothing to do with "atrocities" and everything to do with people hating Garrosh because he's a lunkheaded loudmouthed blowhard.

"Maybe you're wrong. Oh, no, that's not possible, it MUST be blind favoritism, right?"

I'm not wrong... both are warmongers and fools. They are cut from the same cloth, albeit the color and race are different.

"Don't state this as some kind of fact. It's not."

They were both re-purposed by Blizzard to suit the role of Warmonger. Varian was a willing dupe to the nobles and a dragon plus a victim of kidnapping and Garrosh was a crybaby before Wrath of the Lich King.

"Have you never heard of Onyxia? Have you never read the comic? "

I have... have you ever heard of a retcon?

"Yeah, you'd almost think he just found out Thrall allowed humans to be caged and experimented on for the plague. Oh wait. HE DID."

This just in... both sides suffered heavy causalities at the Wrathgate. I mean you'd think you could pay attention to the best cinematic in the game. If Thrall had any indication of that treachery do you think he would allow his own men to blunder into it?

"You do realize the implication behind the Alliance Twilight Highlands intro is that BENEDICTUS arranged that for the Twilight, don't you?"

Implication isn't proof. King Varian Wrynn Commands the human forces in the Alliance and last I checked SI:7 was duty bound to follow the orders of the King... not a priest. If SI:7 is that easily duped you could hardly call it an intelligence agency.


"It has nothing to do with "atrocities" and everything to do with people hating Garrosh because he's a lunkheaded loudmouthed blowhard."

Because Varian is the picture of calmness.... Oh wait no he isn't. He's a kettle boiling over with rage. Look to the novel where he injured his son or The Ulduar cutscene where he went toe to toe with Garrosh over a simple insult. Both had to be restrained like children on a playground. I never said anything about Garrosh not being an idiot... I believe he is. However you dutifully defending the same kind of foolish brazen idiocy that drives Garrosh, that is more than evident in your King speaks to the hypocrisy you stand for. King Varian Wrynn is just as hot headed and foolish as Garrosh is. If you fail to see it, then how long until he leads you to a worse end than Garrosh has even got the chance to lead the horde into?

"I'm not wrong... both are warmongers and fools. They are cut from the same cloth, albeit the color and race are different."

Then I'm done arguing with you. It's clear you have no intent of listening to anyone's opinion except your own.

Keep on screaming favoritism. Fight the power, man.

BTW, I really like how you keep saying "your king" and how he "leads me" as if I'm some kind of Stormwind guard sitting behind the computer in my imperial plate set.

I play a video game. Varian isn't "my king" any more than Garrosh is your warchief.

(And btw, I main Horde.)

But keep projecting, railgun.

Its a shame that your blind to it but your entitled to your opinion, however poor it is.

Good night to you.

Good grief, it's not as if Varian Wrynn has to be 100% the same as Garrosh or 100% perfect.

Wrynn is an angry and impatient man, who has made some foolish decisions because he wants to see the Alliance prosper. He has anger management issues. He's not a fantastic leader.

Garrosh is a full-on raging buffoon, who would gladly run the entire Horde off a cliff if he thought there was honour at the bottom. He's incapable of negotiation on any terms other than total victory or surrender.

Don't get me wrong, I love Garrosh, but he's not a Warchief who could ever make peace. Wrynn is a King who potentially could.

The only time that we've really gotten anything Varian after Wolfheart is the (lame) intro to Twilight Highlands. There he's still overprotective about Anduin, but that's about it. A man that he trusted enough that he chilled in his throne room suddenly attacked him. After the attack, he thanks Anduin, AND doesn't rage out like he used to. I think we'll be surprised who Varian will be when we first see him in Panda Land. He'll be less consumed by his hatred for the Horde, and more focused on preservation. If he was still nothing more than a berserker king, a doubt the "justice loving" pandaren would join anyone at all, let alone the Alliance.

Big difference is that Varian has received development, both ingame and in books since, despite what naysayers would have you think, he was fairly well received.

Garrosh on the other hand has had little to no development ingame, no development in the books other than being a typical warmonger. Basically what I see happening is that the Horde are going to continue from Cata only to realise that

1)they didn't much like sacking Theramore and

2)The Alliance are suddenly fighting with a viciousness only the older orcs remember, a la Blackrock Spire. With Garrosh refusing to even contemplate negotiation the Horde turn on him, orcs like Saurfang terrified at the thought of the internment camps again.

It's purely speculation at this point, but we do know Garrosh is going to do something HORRENDOUS. Warcrimes are warcrimes.

I'm thinking maybe execute Chen Stoutmantle? For assisting the enemy?

Or maybe a mass killing of the Alliance aligned Pandaren. But that's kinda been done already in south barrens, to the Horde. (against the commanding officers instructions, BTW)

Garrosh got a fair bit of development - see Stonetalon, Silverpine, er... a smidge of Hillsbrad. Well, a little. Enough to show that he's not evil and that a substantial portion of the Horde love him.

But you're right. The choice is: get rid of Garrosh or turn back into the Old Horde.

@Omegan01
Among their many faults, these two individuals, you're forgetting Varian is also the man who ordered a secret operation to capture and execute the former Warchief, an orc attempting to help the world, in the midst of a global crisis where his work was vital to defeating Deathwing and then covered up his malicious actions leaving the Alliance ignorant of what their king had done.

If you don't call that as blind, warlike, and provocative as Garrosh then you should rocket-jump out of the conversation, "railgun".

Did Wrynn order that? I thought it was the Twilight Cult, who had high level traitors in both the Alliance & Horde at that point. Got a source?

There isn't, Kil. He's responding to the same point I refuted hours ago.

Oh, and I see all the posts I had that were upvoted into blue status have been voted down again, with the reverse done to those I was arguing against. Looks like someone's had a busy night. I'm quite flattered. =)