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3-25-2012 @ 6:34PM
"The Kor'kron guard fought with ruthless and brutal efficiency guided by Garrosh's orders."As part of that vanguard, I fought for Saurfang, NOT for the usurper Hellscream. If you go back to Warsong Hold in Borean Tundra, you see Saurfang being a leader, and Hellscream being a livid hothead. Did Garrosh ever actually give an order? Or did he just seethe like a coked-up steroid-infused meathead doing pullups for 2 years?I still believe that most of the orcs, and the Horde, are loyal to Thrall and to Saurfang, and most of us were disappointed that Thrall made Hellscream the Warchief, not Saurfang.You're definitely right about Thrall in regards to Hellscream, he definitely had some blinders on in regards to Garrosh, because of his relationship with Grom. One might suspect that Grom not being able to raise Garrosh may have made Garrosh an even bigger hothead bully with abandonment issues.
3-25-2012 @ 7:58PM
Something else to add:The entirety of orc culture was not the exact same as the Warsong Clan, who's political philosophy was completely as Anne describes it, all about strength and power. The Frostwolf Clan did not share that philosophy, they were shamanic, and attempted to live in tune with the elements. While that meant being strong to defend their clan, they have no strong desire for chopping off heads and world domination.It bugs me when both Anne and Matt continually pound on this idea that Garrosh represents the entirety of what orcs stand for.For example, Anne wrote:"He was an orc of Draenor, an orc raised in the ideals and thinking of old. To Garrosh, the life of an orc had always been simple -- show your power, show your strength, and the world will shower you with glory and affection. Live in weakness, and the world will walk all over you."This was just frankly not the case for all orc clans - similar to how there are different "tribes" of humans on earth, where not all of us share the same systems of governance, social morals, etc. The quests in Stonebreaker Hold in Terokkar Forest should be enough to show us that not all orcs are these complete bloodthirsty animals, like Hellscream is.We could probably assume that most orcs were somewhere on a continuum between the more peaceful Frostwolves and the power hungry Warsong Clan. But I would hope in the future, both Matt and Anne could acknowledge that Garrosh is not the pinnacle of what an Orc stands for, because the in-game lore just does not back up those types of declarations.
3-25-2012 @ 8:01PM
Keep in mind that the majority of the Horde's citizens didn't actually go to Northrend, though, and even amongst those that did, Saurfang's leadership was considerably more understated (by his own wishes), and most of the Horde, the orcs especially, saw Garrosh as the real leader there.Yes, we as players saw what really went on, but by and large, we're the exception, not the rule. Even on that end, we weren't with Garrosh 24/7 in Wrath, and so we can't speak to everything he did do while we were out and about in Northrend. For all we know, he could have been doing some very effective commanding and strategizing while we weren't there to see it. Everything in the books and the game itself seems to portray Garrosh's leadership in Northrend as a mixed bag of very good management of a war machine combined with blunders as a result of poor judgement, which seems very much in character for Garrosh. He doesn't deserve all of the credit for the Horde's successes in Northrend, but saying he didn't do anything there isn't fair either.At least as of the beginning of Cataclysm, story-wise, Garrosh is extremely popular amongst at least a sizable portion of the orcs. The rest of the Horde is another story, but unless I'm mistaken (which is totally possible, so feel free to correct me on this point) lore-wise the orcs are the most plentiful race in the Horde and have the most influence within it by far. Obviously something is going to happen during MoP to change how the orcs view him, but Garrosh as a leader has had a pretty big following, at least initially, by the orcs as a race. He wouldn't have accomplished nearly as much as he did in Kalimdor if the entirety of the Horde thought his leadership was a mistake and half-heartedly followed along with his rule.
3-25-2012 @ 10:07PM
"Garrosh is extremely popular amongst at least a sizable portion of the orcs."Saurfang and Drek'Thar would not be amongst that population, and there are plenty of orcs that follow their lead. So while there may be a sizable amount of orcs that like Garrosh, there is also a large amount (if not a majority) of orcs who don't really like him or what he's doing.
3-25-2012 @ 11:42PM
Pyromelter, many of the stories surrounding Horde affairs support what Tabasa suggests, that quite a large number of (younger) orcs favor Garrosh.Fact of the matter is that clans like the Frostwolf were one of the last few holdouts of pre-Horde Orcish tradition, and even that's sort of "eh".Drek'Thar was once a Warlock, evening abandoning his Shamanistic path as a member of the Frostwolf Clan.Saurfang lead the sacking of both Shattrath and Stormwind.They don't side with Thrall because they're old and noble. They side with Thrall because they were wise enough to see what they were doing was wrong...eventually. I don't think you can argue their traits as something "the majority" of orcs possess.
3-26-2012 @ 12:09AM
Ugh, disregard everything past the first sentence. It's been a long day. I shouldn't be allowed on the internet right now. >.>
3-26-2012 @ 5:02AM
You could probably take Kingslayer Orkus as representing the views of the orc in the street: "Garrosh Hellscream: great warchief or greatest warchief?"
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