Blood Pact: Don't sell your soul for a warlock tanking spec quite yet

Everyone's excited about the warlock tanking glyph for demonology. I'm cautiously excited. It's one of those things we warlocks always put on our wish lists, alongside green fire and warlock flying mounts.
While we still wait on the flying mount, EU CM Wryxian noted that green fire might be in the works! As soon as I saw the glyphs that change cosmetic things like the felguard's weapon or the color of a bear's fur, I went hunting in the datamines for green fire. I didn't see one, but Wryxian says there's "hope" that we'll get a quest for green fire. I do hope it involves Gorzeeki Wildeyes or Mor'zul Bloodbringer as a throwback to the old Dreadsteed epic mount quest chain.
I'm also aware that this is beta, and betas are for testing things, not for setting things in stone. Like Wryxian's statement about fel fire coloring, things can and will change. I want to be realistic about demo tanking. I don't want the hype surrounding warlock-style tanking to lead to disappointment. Looking at some of warlock and tanking mechanical history, I have some major caveats that Blizzard would need to address if warlocks are to become tanks.
Conditions matter for conclusions
Josh covered this nicely in his Beta Testing 101 post: Betas are very volatile things. Crazy stuff happens all the time. You won't really have pets as large as the Hindenburg that is the Observer pet right now. You won't really be able to summon multiple minions at the same time -- at least, not outside of special abilities like Stampede.
Josh mentions that transferred characters sometimes currently have ridiculously inflated stats. Inflated stats allow you to do things you couldn't otherwise do. Most of us know this as overgearing something. My warlock overgears normal modes of Cataclysm by three raiding tiers, so yes, I can go back and solo Throne of the Tides regular if I really feel like it. That doesn't mean I could tank it in the appropriate gear at the appropriate progression level. I'd very much go splat in a few instants.
A video was passed around on Twitter of a warlock Meta-tanking End Time. He maintains threat by Hellfiring everything. But what concerns me are his Hellfire ticks, which you can see by the floating combat text. They're hitting for 20k to 30k. Seriously?! His Shadow Bolt (or Demonic Slash) later on in the Murozond fight crits for 80k to 100k.
I doubt that's normal for appropriate End Time tanking output. I was also most disappointed that they skipped showing how the warlock tanked the hard-hitting melee mobs in Murozond's trash packs.
Devil's advocate
Let's say warlocks could tank and held threat while putting out massive amounts of damage. Let's brainstorm for a bit: What would we need to tank as warlocks?
That method of threat management wouldn't stay in game for very long. It would certainly mess with PvE balance. Why take a regular tank with lower DPS when you can clearly take a warlock tank with higher DPS? It would be disastrous in PvP, where a demonology flag carrier would be nigh-unkillable while decimating his enemies (with moving Hellfire!). Didn't Blizzard nerf Vengeance for tanks in PvP, specifically for the ridiculousness that was blood DKs?
There are other concerns with the glyph that converts demonology to a tanking spec.
The ghost of intraspec balance reeks of the feral druid talent tree and shared gearsets. There is a reason the feral tree is being split in twain. It would be odd to sell two roles to a warlock tree in the same move and expect the balancing to be somehow easier.
A 2-minute taunt isn't very useful. It's not useful for tank switching, and it's not useful for when the DK really wants to Death Grip that mob away from you. It may make sense with an AoE taunt, and as Soulshatter is AoE threat reduction normally, that might be the case. But then, we'd still be out a single-target taunt on a short cooldown.

The glyph actually leans this way by providing Twilight Ward to work for all magic schools, but knowing the current Shadow Ward's weak shield, they better buff it. With our buffed health pools, Shadow Ward currently absorbs an approximate amount of "oh, it tickles."
I don't think self-healing would be enough, either. The popular opinion is that Mists self-healing for warlocks is less than it is currently. Currently, my affliction self-heals manage enough to cover my Life Tap and then a little more if I do my normal rotation. If I flip to Demon Armor and actively Drain Life, I can do a lot more. Mists has a bit of Demon Armor built into the new Fel Armor, but the Demon Armor doesn't do the healing, and Drain Life isn't meant to be the demo filler.
Glyphs don't make emergency tanks, since true emergency tanks would be able to switch in combat. Glyphs will only be switchable out of combat. Glyphing means a warlock either better tank something and be useful or have inadequate DPS for the entire fight. Glyphing does not allow for amazing normal DPS during most of the fight, but stance-dancing with Meta to a tanking role. The glyph affects demonic fury, not just Metamorphosis, so it's no longer increasing a 'lock's damage done when outside of Meta. If the glyph is designed correctly to balance out the tanking warlock compared to other tanks, demonology tank DPS with it will be neutered.
Disillusionment: Through a Glass, Darkly
When friends try warlocks and later set them aside, I always wonder about why. The common complaints that I hear are two flavors of the same problem: Warlocks have too many abilities, and warlocks are more complicated to play while achieving lower DPS as one would get on a hunter or mage.
Cynwise wrote a great post recently about the lack of warlocks everyone is starting to notice. It's long, but in traditional Cynwise fashion, it's very much worth reading. It's a part one (part two later this week), and it covers the statistical census side of how many warlocks are really out there. The statistics come back with a really odd but true conclusion: There's nothing wrong with warlock performance in endgame.

But I feel it's a different reason. Most warlocks I know who attempted the Dragonwrath quest line were most frustrated by the boss at the end of the solo dungeon encounter quest, Through a Glass, Darkly.
Spoilers, if you haven't done it! Each class got a slightly different encounter tailored to the abilities of the class. Essentially, the boss had a win-or-die mechanic -- a buff that healed him ridiculously fast if the player didn't purge it. All mages can Spellsteal. All shaman can Purge. All priests can dispel magic offensively. The buff isn't even in the encounter for moonkin.
Only one pet for warlocks can devour the buff, and this pet bugs out on the platform since the boss never quite lands, much like Ultraxion's trash. The encounter is designed to suit warlock abilities, and Blizzard couldn't get it right. Some warlocks, including the destruction warlock choice before me in guild, were so utterly frustrated by this and even felt cheated that they could not finish the first part of the whole legendary -- not because of skill but because of buggy and clunky mechanics.
This is my greatest fear about warlock tanking, that it will be a niche thing, a hard thing, and while those of us mad enough to demonically tank will sell our souls to do it, it will kill the interest if Blizzard doesn't take care. I fear that all this wonderful hype about a truly cool thing will go to waste if Blizzard either can't work the bugs out or can't balance it with other tanks and DPS.
Metamorphosis tanking would be totally awesome, and I would love to try it out. But I would rather see it not done at all than to have some half-done specter of it linger in Nerfed Hell, much like Soul Swap and Drain Life filler did.
Filed under: Warlock, (Warlock) Blood Pact






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Imnick Mar 26th 2012 6:22PM
I'm pretty sure the Glyph reduces Soulshatter's cooldown to eight seconds as well as turning into a single-target taunt
Personally my thinking is that Blizzard have implemented this as a glyph (one that clearly isn't implemented properly, as instead of "replacing" the damage bonus from mastery it actually just adds onto it, hence the ridiculously inflated damage) in order to avoid having to implement a fourth spec (which sounds much more complicated) and if Warlock Tanking takes off then it will be made into a spec, but that's just a theory.
Imnick Mar 26th 2012 6:35PM
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4254517075?page=1#1 this is an excellent compilation of all warlock tanking info (and confirms that Soulshatter is changed into a real taunt, with the standard cooldown all tanks have)
Danstewart77 Mar 26th 2012 9:27PM
The link Imnick posted is a great read if you want to understand what's currently going on for beta warlock tanking.
Imnick Mar 26th 2012 10:14PM
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4253968049#12
This post is much less exciting but you should probably read it too
As it is Ghostcrawler himself saying "you're not going to be tanks yet"
gwenalynn Mar 27th 2012 1:14AM
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0hoq6uxbJ1r5dikw.gif
And here is my response to ghostcrawler, lil killjoy that he is. I think I'll go murder crabs in game.
Imnick Mar 27th 2012 9:17AM
Don't blame Ghostcrawler, he's only the messenger
ukwest Mar 27th 2012 10:48AM
No GC isn't the messenger, he is the lead system designer.
Imnick Mar 27th 2012 10:51AM
Yes, but he never promised that warlocks would be able to tank.
The only people who promised that were members of the community, who were wrong.
bert Mar 26th 2012 6:28PM
It's a trap!
Saf Mar 26th 2012 6:32PM
While I commend the view of "it's beta, it may only be a dream", your view seems to be clouded by the tooltip of the glyph.
From what many of the current Beta players have said through testing, and a little data-mining, the glyph provides many effects that would make that tooltip take up close to 1/2 the screen.
1) The glyph provides the 500% threat modifier common to all tank stances.
2) The taunt that replaces Soulshatter is a completely different skill that has an 8 second cooldown and a 3 second duration, similar to other tank taunts.
3) The damage seen in the End Time video is widely considered to be a bug, as the glyph does not appear to remove Mastery's damage bonus yet.
4) Fury Ward, which is Twilight Ward's replacement, is a channeled skill that reduces all damage taken by 30% for 30 seconds, with a 10 second cooldown. While channeling, you will lose 30 Demonic Fury for every 1% health you lose during the channel, with the Fury-to-health % ratio increasing for every second you channel.
5) The glyph makes it so your Meta will not fall off when you hit 0 Fury, effectively making it a permanent form akin to Bear form.
6) While they currently have no way of increasing your avoidance stats beyond the baseline 5% chance to dodge that all classes have baseline, Demo tanks currently have the highest mitigation possible, with the ability to hit 99% damage reduction when you activate Dark Soul. Currently very OP, but with a balance pass, could work quite well as a pure mitigation tank.
7) Have you taken a second look at the Warlock talents, with an eye out for a tank build? I swear, based on the current build, that Warlocks will have more tanking cooldowns than any of the other tanks. Heck, with Demonic Circle, Demonic Leap, and Demonic Gateway, they have as many, if not more, movement capabilities than a Prot Warrior!!!
Now, I fully intend to make my Lock a Demo tank, and probably my new main if they end up capable of tanking all available content. So yes, I have a vested interest in seeing it work out well. So please, don't just dismiss the idea because the glyph seems to lack some info. Data-mining proves that Blizz has put more thought into this idea than you think...
Covil Mar 26th 2012 6:47PM
You beat me to it. :(
Wightwing Mar 26th 2012 8:22PM
So can we call Lock tanks "Demoknight(s)"?
Alexander Krizak Mar 26th 2012 9:05PM
What I keep hearing from the current tanks (at least, the cool ones that don't mind us gaining a tanking role) is that there's really no way to balance Warlock tanking as pure mitigation. Either it works out that our pure mitigation results in taking the same overall damage as the tanks with avoidance - making us better because the healers don't have to deal with damage spikes - or we take more overall damage than the tanks with avoidance - making us worse as we are harder to heal.
I personally feel it isn't quite as cut and dried as that - there's likely a sweet spot where we require more healing, but because it isn't spiky, the healers can use their more mana-efficient spells - but that sweet spot is probably too small for Blizzard to ever hit right. Demonology tanking needs to change to a mix of mitagation and avoidance to survive this beta, I feel. No need to add cloth gear with dodge and parry, though; Metamorphosis has always given us an armour bonus that can beat even the best-geared plate-wearer or Druid, so mitagation is taken care of. For avoidance, that's what our mastery should give us when we have the glyph: avoidance based on our current Demonic Fury. This lets us use mastery as our dodge/parry stat, and even makes the current tanking play between keeping Fury as high as possible to reduce damage and spending Fury to keep aggro or use cooldowns more interesting.
I really hope Demonology tanking makes it to live. I have always loved tanking on my Warlock; every time a new Warlock tanking fight popped up, I have driven my guild mad with my excitement to tank it. My biggest disappointment in Cataclysm was the complete lack of Warlock-tankable fights; it got to the point where I leveled up a DK to tank, but it's just not the same.
Lugh Mar 26th 2012 9:34PM
The glyph gives them a lot of flexibility to change spells around to make the tanking viable. Part of me wonders, however, if the glyph may be their way of testing out a fourth spec for warlocks since, as was mentioned, the glyph effects quickly become a wall of text. This could be their way of doing a fourth spec without making any promises. It also provides a way to see how people choose to use it in the beta and get feedback without committing to anything. If they drop it from the game, they dropped a glyph - not a promised 4th specialization. I think Blizzard would be reluctant to take away one of the dps specs since many people out there love demonology dps. I like what Blizzard seems to be doing with the warlocks - they are working hard to give warlocks an identity beyond "the dot class" and make each of the specs feel interesting and unique. At the same time, they are making rotations more straightforward. Making four specs may lead to difficulties distinguishing a dps demonology from a tanking demonology, but affliction and destruction seem to have a feel of their own that doesn't make you think "mage with lots of dots." They also seem to be giving a nod to all those warlocks from past versions of WoW who were ranged tanks (due to high survivability and threat generation abilities) and giving us tools to execute it without it feeling like an exploit.
fromnowear Mar 26th 2012 10:46PM
As for the 99% damage reduction of Dark Soul, I'd expect that to drop threat like the paladin's Divine Shield (bubble) if it stayed in the build.
As it is, I think the current combination of talents, given spells, and glyphs makes locks way too strong in certain types of encounters (namely, unavoidable magic damage) since they can soak/prevent/heal so much of the damage.
Quick questions for any beta testers out there:
1) Can you parry at all in demon form? I mean, we have a weapon... er, claws?
2) Does channeling/casting prevent you from avoiding attacks like it does for paladin tanks?
Revynn Mar 26th 2012 6:34PM
People keep throwing around the "warlock tanking spec" phrase and it's kind of bothering me. Yes, that glyph will give us a significant amount of survivability and yes, we'll be able to keep it up through DS spam, but without some sort of tanking stat conversion, we're still going to be subpar compared to a real "tank" with equal gear.
At best, we'll be doing some sort of off tanking or range tanking like we did on Mimiron or Blood Prince Council and we may even see a guild here or there using a warlock main tank (like we see with Hunter Pets ocassionally), but we'd be getting ahead of ourselves to think that we'll be able to queue as tanks in the Dungeon/Raid finder or be treated and balanced as a 6th tank spec.
We're not "tanks" and Blizzard will nerf the piss out of us if we start to become -too- viable. Remember Sarth 3D?
Boobah Mar 26th 2012 9:07PM
As pointed out above, if you have enough mitigation through mastery and Nether Armor, you really don't care if you avoid stuff. Healers would love a tank that always takes a small percentage of damage, instead of a tank that varies between much more and much less, even if that meant that the tank overall took a little bit more damage.
Lugh Mar 26th 2012 9:34PM
There is one way to get around the sweet spot problem. Warlock tanks are strict mitigation, so they will likely end up taking more damage than your traditional parry/dodge avoidance tanks. However, they give warlocks tons of extra abilities to further enhance mitigation. Void sacrifices, magic damage reductions, soul links ... making warlock tanking fit the intended new Blizzard paradigm - make tanking an exercise in active defense. One of the reasons for the warlock tank may be giving Blizzard a chance at toying with a new way of looking at tanking by using a class that has proven itself to be innovative and able to handle frequent change. (Just count to yourself the number of times you rotation has fundamentally changed between two patches.)
fromnowear Mar 26th 2012 11:00PM
Also, really easy fix to the avoidance/mitigation debate:
Change one of the current CD's to give dodge instead. Warlock mini-Evasion (~20%), 1-2 min CD would work well I think.
I just think it would diversify the toolkit better and decrease the staggering incentive to use or not use a 'lock tank on certain types of fights where the avoidance is essential or irrelevant, respectively.
ladeezluvlarry71 Mar 26th 2012 6:34PM
Not to be slightly off topic or anything, but I've been maining warlock since vanilla and I don't understand why green fire would be *that* cool to take up development time that could be used for absolutely anything else. =/ Not that it wouldn't be cool; it's just not something I'd ever worry about.