Breakfast Topic: Has your opinion about the pandaren changed?
by Mathew McCurley 
Mar 26th 2012 at 8:00AM
While not the strongest supporter of the pandaren in the beginning, I was of the mindset that it wouldn't be the most ridiculous thing added to WoW, so I wasn't going to complain. In a world where cow people walk side-by-side with the living dead and green linebackers from outer space, panda people didn't seem like too much of a leap of logic.
Actually seeing the implementation of the pandaren, though, changed my mind about them -- the realization of the idea rather than the idea itself is what allowed me to accept the thing.
Now that the pandaren are out in the wild, has your opinion about them changed? Were they once a jokey race now elevated to nod-worthy status? Do you need more time to see where Blizzard develops the pandaren story? Have pandaren not moved on your radar?
Filed under: Breakfast Topics
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 7)
Evil Midnight Lurker Mar 26th 2012 8:05AM
I've always wanted playable pandaren, and found others treating them as a joke or something that might somehow "offend" the Chinese fanbase to be a bit annoying.
TJ Mar 26th 2012 8:57AM
I agree with you 100%.
QM Mar 26th 2012 9:20AM
It's not that we (or at least for me) think it'll offend Chinese. My personal contentions with Pandaren stem from their origins as a joke race. That's what they originally were: anthropomorphoc pandas in samurai gear who loved beer. A nice easter egg.
Then out of left field Blizzard expects us to consider Pandaren an actual race, actually present in the world with real lore. It's just so.... desperte feeling. Like they were scrapng the bottom of the barrel and managed to fish up Pandaren. Whether or not that's true, that's what it feels like.
Some people accept the Pandaren because they're cute or wish fulfillmemt, and good for them! I mean it. But I'm going to look at Pandardn in game, and all I'm going to see is pandas dressed in kimonos or monk robes, and I just won't be able to take them seriously. Any story they're involved in will just seem like a drawn out joke that stopped being funny a while ago. And for someone who plays WoW primarily for the story, that REALLY sucks :(
And for everyone who keeps saying "Get over it, we have space goats and moomen, why are pandas such a big deal?" just stop saying that! It's fallacious and it drives me nuts. Its like saying "Let's throw gas on the fire, I mean it's already burning right?" Not to mention, Tauren and Draenei are UNIQUE races with years of established lore. Pandas are fuedal Chinese people. It's not a relevant comparison. /rant
QM Mar 26th 2012 10:05AM
Instead of getting downrated into oblivion for disagreeing with the majority, could I please get a decent reply? I'm curious to know how other people think about my opinions.
jfofla Mar 26th 2012 10:14AM
@QM We have Spacegoats and Moomen. Get over it .
Vgk Mar 26th 2012 10:15AM
@QM
The Pandaren and Draenei were both established in WC3:TfT that whole established lore argument doesn't really work especially when considering there were early models in vanilla WoW of Pandaren NPC's
James Mar 26th 2012 10:20AM
The reason you were downrated into oblivion is because you come off, from your comments, as whiny and your wrong.
If you've ever played the Founding of the Horde at the end of the Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne you'd know Chen Stormstout, A Pandaren, was actually present. He wasn't a joke character either. Right there in the main story not hidden at all. It sets up for the Pandaren nicely in cannon. Some just chose to ignore it for another wave of crying about nothing in this game.
Rezai Mar 26th 2012 10:22AM
No QM. I completely agree with you. It would be like if in a D3 expansion they made a playable class the Hell Bovine. Then Blizzard was like "ohh no, this is not a joke. The Hell Bovine are a serious class". It would be no less absurd. Yet some how in WoW it is okay. It's not that we are mad because there are now panda's but are fine with cowmen and space goats. It is that the panda people have been a joke. Have always been a joke. So no QM you and I get downrated to oblivion because we do not agree.
Mako Mar 26th 2012 10:48AM
@QM
i think the pandaren aren't anymore "less fleshed out" than the other races, who are similarly built off of stereotypes or otherwise piggybacking off other cultures:
-orcs are like the mongols
-night elves have asian-inspired architecture like the pandaren do (ever seen the male night elf bow? it's just like the pandaren bow)
-tauren are native americans (one of their npc greetings is even "how")
-humans (and, by extension, the undead) are medieval england
-gilneas and its worgen are victorian england
-trolls have a "darkest africa voodoo" feel
-going into npc races, the tol'vir are egyptians
and so on and so forth; the only one without a clear parallel, really, would be the draenei, but even then they have an eastern europe accent
i ask you: did any of these races' "origins" ever get in the way of enjoying their stories? did we ever accuse blizzard of the humans in warcraft being, say, one long drawn-out monty python and the holy grail joke, just because they both are about/derived from medieval england stereotypes?
no? then why are people suddenly worried pandaria is going to be a big ol' kung fu panda joke?
the only difference i see is that pandaren are new and suddenly people are crying foul about there being no lore to support them and how they don't "fit in". it isn't a matter of blizzard being "desperate". they are CLEARLY putting effort into this race (a metric buttload more than they put in with the worgen, in my opinion) with an entire island teeming with unique vistas and new forms of life we've never seen before.
pandaria is a whole new frontier, which is exactly what the game needs right now. we'd seen outland before (even if WoW outland was way different from warcraft 2 outland), we'd seen northrend before in warcraft 3 and it wasn't fundamentally different from the rest of azeroth, and, of course, the cataclysm revamp was a change to a world we already had seen every inch of (save for the token new areas like uldum and vashj'ir, which were cool but weren't that "new")
the game needs something new to explore, but the plot isn't ready for "the burning legion's back, get thee to argus/whatever other planet's out there!". so we get pandaria, which has infinitely more stuff about it already in the universe than the uldum we got (which was different from the "uldum ruins" in tanaris that we long speculated over) and vashj'ir
i'm going to play a pandaren because they look awesome and i'm interested in seeing all of the content the game has to offer, not because they're "cute" or "wish fulfillment"
we're getting something new and exciting, and i don't understand why people are acting like it's blizzard's death throes that are bringing this on
QM Mar 26th 2012 10:51AM
Whiny may be a bit strong, but I was voicing my complaints. Kind of hard not to be seen as whiny when your complaining, even if they are reasonable complaints.
So ya, Chen, forgot about him. Good point. Still always assumed he was an easter egg because, you know, talking panda brewer in Durotar...
I guess I just can't get past their inherent silliness. I'll try, because MoP will be AWESOME, and I want to be immersed in the story. But I just can't take Pandaren seriously. Maybe if Blizz had made them more unique and less overtly Chinese (my other big problem with Pandaren; they wouldn't be as bad if they had cultural flavor).
Agree to disagree then?
cygnus Mar 26th 2012 10:53AM
@QM: You are glorifying the other races. Gnomes and Dwarves (and to some extent Trolls) had no lore to speak of at the time of WoW launch. Specially gnomes since they only make some few appearances during WIII and WII, and as animations, no hero or npc was ever a gnome in those games.
Then in Burning Crusade: For the Draenei, The "years of established lore" you talk about is 1 (one) mention on the WII manual, and a weird appearance in WII as 'broken'; all to be retconed in WoW. And for the Blood Elves, (oh the blood elves!): The BE were the followers of Kaelthas who supposedly managed to escape with Illidan, if not all, most them; and they supposedly were few of them to begin with. Enter BC we have an entire city full of them who survived the attack of the scourge, didn't manage to escape, but are still mad about that mean, mean human captain who mistreated their beloved Kaelthas, so they join the Horde.
And cataclysm. Worgens. They came out of freaking nowhere. there were 4 worgen hotspots in the whole game, 1 incomplete quest chain, and that's that. Everything about worgens came afterwards.
Pandas? Chen helped Rexxar (The most awesome hero in the whole history of Azeroth and Dreanor) help Thrall build Orgrimar. That's no joke. And that's all there was to it. No retcons, all new from now on. I don't see why it's so far fetched.
QM Mar 26th 2012 11:03AM
@mako All very good points, and I agree with you on most of them. With the exception of humans (classic medieval), gilneans (London, wot), and goblins American consumerism, Jersey), all of the races are a blend of cultures and styles. NElves are oriental, indian, and a dash of amazonian. Orcs are barbarians, mongols, and Japanese. Draenei are gypsies, arabic, and a tad Egyptian. Trolls are carribean voodoo and deep African jungle mysticism. Tauren mix Native American with a touch of mesoamerica and Indian philosophy. And so on.
Blizzard has made unique races and cultures before, but with Cata (Egypt/Uldum, London/Gilneas, Scotland/THighlands, etc.) and now Pandaria, I'm getting the very real feeling that they're slacking. And that makes me sad :(
Luotian Mar 26th 2012 11:10AM
@QM: Sorry, but I have to pipe in on that last comment with a bit of fury.
Cultural flavor? Like...China doesn't have it? The cool thing about Asia is how old the cultures are, how much deeper and richer than our own. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it is not there.
The Pandaren culture is new. That doesn't mean it isn't there.
QM Mar 26th 2012 11:21AM
You guys already won the argument. I think it'll be easier for me to accept pandas now.
But I got to correct you Luotian. I obviously wasn't saying China had less "culture". I was lamenting the lack of cultural diversity and uniqueness in Pandaria. It's China. Not a fusion of China and some other culture. Not Pandaria. Just China. It's like they're not even trying.
Schadenfreude Mar 26th 2012 11:36AM
Pandaren have been "real" to me since Chen Stormstout in the Rexxar campaign of WC3.
vocenoctum Mar 26th 2012 12:15PM
You know, if the topic is "what was your opinion and has it changed", maybe downvoting peoples opinions and whether it's changed or not isn't the best use of the system...
Drahken Mar 26th 2012 12:41PM
I'd also like to point out in addition to the other points made, that Blizz has been serious about Pandarens for a while now. Pandaren was originally going to be the Alliance's new race in Burning Crusade before they abruptly changed their minds and went with Draenei.
Elvgren Mar 26th 2012 2:12PM
Having seen them now on the test realms I can say they most certainly WILL be offensive as they play to the basest ""Evil of Fu-Manchu" style of characterization. They pander to a very western demographic. It has ZERO to do with the existence of space goats or moomen .. neither of those races are direct racial stereotypes. This is a quantifiable difference. I love the idea of a neutral race, Bliz just could have taken the higher ground and not made them a racial caricature. Also at issue is that they are also specifically targeted at younger audiences, you can't dismiss the "Kung-fu Panda" angle outright, who are not as able to recognize said stereotypes.
Just not a fan.
Wightwing Mar 26th 2012 5:13PM
Once more, let us go into the already existing player races.
Alliance
- Standard fantasy cookie cutter humans.
- Asian Super-Warlike Elves.
- Beer-addicted short hairy people.
- Super-Intelligent short people.
- Space Goat/Demon things.
- Dapper Welsh Werewolves.
Horde
- Green linebackers from space.
- Voodoo/Stoner trolls
- Native American Cow People
- Germanic/Russian Dead People with an elf as their queen.
- Magic addicted Lord Akeldama-esque elves (See: http://awilderomantic.tumblr.com/post/8134705959/this-is-the-vampire-lord-akeldama-fabulous-a)
- Explosive-obsessed short green people with blimps.
Matthew Mar 26th 2012 5:32PM
I agree with QM's first comment. I'm looking forward to MoP, don't get me wrong, but not because I can play as a Panda.
I think Blizzard should tap into India (the subcontinent)'s lore for some inspiration. There's much there! Zounds of Colors, saris, elephant-headed gods, etc.