Blue Posts: Ghostcrawler returns saying no to warlock tanking spec

Ghostcrawler has returned to the forums, for at least one post in the beta section, to quell the warlock tanking talk that's been going on ...
Blue posts
Ghostcrawler -- Warlock tanks
Just to make our intent clear, the Glyph of Demon Hunting isn't intended to turn Demonology warlocks into a tanking spec. You won't be able to queue as a tank for Dungeon Finder for instance and won't have the survivability or tools of say a Protection paladin.
Historically, warlocks felt tankier than other casters and could even off-tank some encounters. We have made an effort in Mists to recapture some of that flavor. A warlock with this glyph should feel like they are about as effective tanking as an Arms warrior who pulls out a shield and swaps to Defensive Stance, or a Feral druid who goes into Bear form. You might be able to off-tank adds or pick up an actual boss for a short period of time if the tank goes down.
To make warlocks an actual tank would take more significant changes. For example, we want tanks to have to pick up separate tanking gear than their DPS gear (this is even true of druids) and want tanks to have to give up some of their DPS potential in exchange for their survivability. In short, it needs to be a commitment, and that's the sort of thing that needs larger gameplay changes than just a glyph.
That shouldn't stop the glyph of Demon Hunting from being fun though. As you can probably tell, we are trying to make even the major glyphs more about character customization and fun.
Historically, warlocks felt tankier than other casters and could even off-tank some encounters. We have made an effort in Mists to recapture some of that flavor. A warlock with this glyph should feel like they are about as effective tanking as an Arms warrior who pulls out a shield and swaps to Defensive Stance, or a Feral druid who goes into Bear form. You might be able to off-tank adds or pick up an actual boss for a short period of time if the tank goes down.
To make warlocks an actual tank would take more significant changes. For example, we want tanks to have to pick up separate tanking gear than their DPS gear (this is even true of druids) and want tanks to have to give up some of their DPS potential in exchange for their survivability. In short, it needs to be a commitment, and that's the sort of thing that needs larger gameplay changes than just a glyph.
That shouldn't stop the glyph of Demon Hunting from being fun though. As you can probably tell, we are trying to make even the major glyphs more about character customization and fun.
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 7)
JattTheRogue Mar 26th 2012 11:28PM
Yeah, my thoughts exactly. I kept seeing all this speculation and thinking, "Really? They actually think Warlocks will become a tank from just one glyph?" Every other tank has a full spec, specific tanking gear and specific tanking glyphs. This has always just felt like a flavor, "fun" sort of thing.
That said I would definitely not be against seeing a Warlock tank or some other caster-type tank, whether from an existing class or a new one, but like GC said, it would be something much more involved than one glyph.
gewalt Mar 27th 2012 1:02AM
no you idiots, that one glyph gave us all a glimmer of hope that blizzard was doing other things that would leave to demo being able to tank.
Puntable Mar 27th 2012 1:02AM
The ability to off-tank certain caster mobs in certain fights, like they did in vanilla, or a fun gimmick for soloing old content. That's what I always thought it would be for. Who are these people that thought Warlocks would be tanking dungeons?
RedMosquito Mar 27th 2012 1:28AM
Thinking that the glyph meant warlocks would be actual tanks does seem like jumping to conclusions too early.
But I'm equally shocked by the alternatives to that. So Blizzard wants warlocks to sacrifice one glyph slot, and all the dps that their main cooldown gives them... for the chance to off-tank if the tank dies, or on certain gimmick fights (that they haven't been doing for the last two expansions, and don't seem like they'll be doing on this one either)? Or is it meant for "extreme soloing" like hunters do? Or just for leveling?
I honestly see no real alternatives completely grounded at this moment. People were excited, and are now severely disappointed, because the possibility of warlocks becoming real tanks, while really slim, sounded MUCH more fun than all of these other scenarios.
Noyou Mar 27th 2012 7:24AM
"that one glyph gave us all a glimmer of hope"
And you took that glimmer like many did and ran with it. Well before anyone could actually try it out in Beta- where things can change drastically from build to build.
mibu.work1 Mar 26th 2012 11:00PM
I really don't see why there's so much vitriol being slung at old Greg up there. I'm sorry to all ya'll who were looking forward to tanking as a warlock, despite the fact that such a HUGE announcement would've been dropped well before, about the time druids got a forth class, the fact that if it were the case it'd be completely out of the blue, the fact that blizzard has no idea whatsoever if a cloth tank is even possible, or how a purely ranged tank would work, I'm sorry you got your hopes up only to be dashed.
Honestly, all that happened is that warlocks got the ability to hold threat a bit better than most ranged classes. Hunters have had distracting shot for years, and while there's been talk of hunter tanks, it's never been this big an issue. Be glad that your class is getting some utility, and don't gripe your pipe-dream didn't come to pass. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but learn to take bad news with some dignity and don't shoot the messenger.
kapulani.koa Mar 26th 2012 11:17PM
Have you read *all* the effects that the Glyph of Demon Hunting has/had? It converts so many abilities, provides all the necessary abilities for tanking, provides tons (excessive even) of mitigation, and provides tons (excessive) of damage.
This isn't anything like Distracting Shot.
That glyph wasn't designed with a niche role in mind. It looks a lot more like a developer was trying to prove the viability of Demonology tanking -- and succeeded. But GC says its a no-go.
Tuhljin Mar 27th 2012 1:03AM
"It looks a lot more like a developer was trying to prove the viability of Demonology tanking -- and succeeded."
... Seriously? By that reasoning, you could say a developer might "prove" the viability of mage healing by giving them a glyph that transforms a bunch of abilities into healing ones. Well, YES, warlocks can be tanks if you ALTER THE CLASS TO MAKE THEM TANKS. OBVIOUSLY. What does that have to do with "PROVING" the "VIABLITY" of anything? (In any case, doing so through a glyph and a glyph alone is still fishy.)
Magma Mar 26th 2012 11:00PM
If the only reason you were leveling a warlock was just for this, then maybe warlock is not the class you should be playing. Just a thought.
RedMosquito Mar 27th 2012 1:06AM
But people level classes for the smallest reasons. You might want to try a hunter because you'd like to play with a class that uses a bow, even if you don't feel anything in particular about pets or surviving in the wild.
Pretty much everyone likes flavor. Pretty much everyone picks a class or a spec because they think that class or spec is cool, or looks cool, or does something they like, or behaves in away they like, or seems like it would be fun.
Some people thought it would be cool to play as a character who tanks in demon form. There's nothing wrong with that. And if warlocks were indeed given a tanking spec, they would be picking the right class to fulfill what they thought would be a fun thing to do.
Sergentzimm Mar 26th 2012 11:01PM
Omg I am so pissed. Come on man can you not see how freaking cool that would be? Oh it would be hard to balance. Then make it easy. You have bear tanks that use agility. Make demo tanks use agility leather or any number of solutions. Thanks for killing my high man
Luotian Mar 26th 2012 11:28PM
You really have no concept of how stupid you sound, do you?
There is absolutely nothing easy about balancing a class but staying true to its flavor.
RGSmith Mar 26th 2012 11:02PM
I know its beta so nothing is set in stone but the idea of a tank spec Warlock sounded really cool. If that made it to live I would def rolled one since I tend to play all tanking specs.
Oh well maybe the excitement over that will make it happen eventually.
Drakkenfyre Mar 26th 2012 11:32PM
There are a few things I am tired of hearing. And while they are not all equal in the amount of how tired I am of hearing them, a few of them are.
1. "Classic" servers.
2. Elitism over newbie players (i.e. "bads don't deserve (insert gear of the week.))"
3. Blaming Ghostcrawler for every single decision made by the dev team (I am sure he personally does the art, or not.)
4. Monks (this one is pretty done. Got tired of hearing about them since almost the game began.)
5. Warlock tanking.
And I don't mean an offtank with a Voidwalker. I mean the people who fully expect a tanking tree where the Warlock themselves were tanking. It makes no sense.
Incidentally, those cups still piss me off. I would get them, if there were an ampm anywhere near where I lived. I am not buying them off eBay so the price-gougers can make money off them.
anonymous Mar 26th 2012 11:04PM
Guys, demonology is a fucking blast right now in beta. Guaranteed it will get nerfed but even when it does it will still be fucking awesome. Just have a little patience; you won't be disappointed, even if you can't queue as a tank.
Luotian Mar 26th 2012 11:06PM
I'm really surprised how many people even want warlocks to tank. I mean...really.
Fuzzl Mar 26th 2012 11:11PM
Ghostcrawler disappears from the forums, everyone wants "The Ghostcrawler Days" back.
Ghostcrawler returns for one post to clarify something that got read-into way too much and was never official and says it will still be a very fun glyph, and people are already piling on the GC hate.
Give the guy a break. I personally love when the Devs are straight-forward with the players, even if I don't necessarily "like" or agree with what they're saying.
Bond Mar 26th 2012 11:11PM
I wish they would convert one spec of every pure dps class in to a tank. Warlock Demonology, Mage Ice, Hunter Beast Master and Rogue Subtlety all should be the tanking specs for their class. Mage Arcane should be a healer spec, and you could push that in to several other classes as well. That would do away with all this "hybrid tax" nonsense, help with the tank drought and solidify the purpose of these trees all at once.
Zionel Mar 26th 2012 11:17PM
"Rogue Subtlety" Tanks
That made my evening.
Pyromelter Mar 26th 2012 11:32PM
How many DK tanks are there versus dps?
How did that work out for the tank drought? There's only so many people who have the skills and desire to tank. Forcing a tank spec on the 4 pure dps classes isn't going to increase the amount of tank players in the population, but it will remove dps specs that a fair percentage of the wow population enjoys playing.