Patch 5.4 patch notes
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The latest patch 5.4 newsBlue Posts: Ghostcrawler returns saying no to warlock tanking spec
by Adam Holisky 
Mar 26th 2012 at 10:40PM
Ghostcrawler has returned to the forums, for at least one post in the beta section, to quell the warlock tanking talk that's been going on ...
Blue posts
Ghostcrawler -- Warlock tanks
Just to make our intent clear, the Glyph of Demon Hunting isn't intended to turn Demonology warlocks into a tanking spec. You won't be able to queue as a tank for Dungeon Finder for instance and won't have the survivability or tools of say a Protection paladin.
Historically, warlocks felt tankier than other casters and could even off-tank some encounters. We have made an effort in Mists to recapture some of that flavor. A warlock with this glyph should feel like they are about as effective tanking as an Arms warrior who pulls out a shield and swaps to Defensive Stance, or a Feral druid who goes into Bear form. You might be able to off-tank adds or pick up an actual boss for a short period of time if the tank goes down.
To make warlocks an actual tank would take more significant changes. For example, we want tanks to have to pick up separate tanking gear than their DPS gear (this is even true of druids) and want tanks to have to give up some of their DPS potential in exchange for their survivability. In short, it needs to be a commitment, and that's the sort of thing that needs larger gameplay changes than just a glyph.
That shouldn't stop the glyph of Demon Hunting from being fun though. As you can probably tell, we are trying to make even the major glyphs more about character customization and fun.
Historically, warlocks felt tankier than other casters and could even off-tank some encounters. We have made an effort in Mists to recapture some of that flavor. A warlock with this glyph should feel like they are about as effective tanking as an Arms warrior who pulls out a shield and swaps to Defensive Stance, or a Feral druid who goes into Bear form. You might be able to off-tank adds or pick up an actual boss for a short period of time if the tank goes down.
To make warlocks an actual tank would take more significant changes. For example, we want tanks to have to pick up separate tanking gear than their DPS gear (this is even true of druids) and want tanks to have to give up some of their DPS potential in exchange for their survivability. In short, it needs to be a commitment, and that's the sort of thing that needs larger gameplay changes than just a glyph.
That shouldn't stop the glyph of Demon Hunting from being fun though. As you can probably tell, we are trying to make even the major glyphs more about character customization and fun.
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Reader Comments (Page 5 of 7)
rdj18902 Mar 26th 2012 11:45PM
I forsee a mimiron type fight in my future. The shear awesomeness of tanking as a caster was well awesome.
Micte Mar 26th 2012 11:50PM
Seeing as my warlock is still at level 11 and has been since...Like...A month after Cata went live, I'm not overly fussed about whether or not warlocks would be main-tanking.
I'm just now grumpy that Ghostcrawler had to remind me about those cups. Curse you, AM/PM, and your lack of Canadian locations! >=(
Midnight Phil Mar 26th 2012 11:54PM
I'm not angry that Warlocks won't be tanking, I'm honestly just a bit puzzled as to what purpose the glyph has. If it were just for added survival -- for soloing, or what have you -- I'd completely understand. Extra health, damage mitigation, and what have you. But why a taunt? Why extra threat generation? If Demonology Warlocks really are inadequate as honest-to-goodness tanks, and said tanking mechanics come from a glyph, I have trouble seeing a broad application for this.
If a tank deserts a 5 man instance, I think most groups would wait for a proper tank instead of forging on with what would be a subpar Warlock "tank" (and only four total players). If a tank dies during a 5 man, the Warlock can't switch glyphs on the fly the way a tanking class can assume a different stance or presence, and he couldn't have it active ahead of time because he'd be competing for threat (and he'd have lower dps). If a raid is being organized, no one's going to let the Warlock off-tank if there's someone who can do the job better.
I'm not jumping down Blizz's throat or crying betrayal or anything. I'm just confused as to what the practical use of this glyph will be. But who knows? Maybe glyphs will work in a totally different fashion when Mists comes out. Maybe the threat stuff'll be erased. As it stands, though, I think this glyph is kind of between worlds.
Luotian Mar 27th 2012 12:04AM
You underestimate the impatience of 5 man PuGs. I can't tell you how many times my Ele shaman has been asked to sub-optimally heal because the 3 other people think we are just that good.
Go VH! Mar 27th 2012 12:10AM
Heh, fair enough. I suppose I'll amend my comment: is that the sort of thing Blizz really wants to encourage? ;)
Go VH! Mar 27th 2012 12:12AM
Heh, fair enough. I suppose I'll amend my comment: is that the sort of thing Blizz really wants to encourage? ;)
Bethany Mar 27th 2012 12:09AM
Nice to see this site has its share of over-entitled "GC sucks because WOW isn't the way I want it to be' whiners.
For every lock who feels GC gave you the middle finger by not making Demo. a tank spec, there's a lock who prefers it remain a dps spec. Some of you act as if you speak for the entire base of players who use locks: you don't.
Locks get awesome, potentially raid-saving utility and all some of you can do is bitch and whine that GC hates locks, that he 'lied' or something. Ugh. Go to MMO champion with the rest of the trolls.
If you want to tank, roll a tank. In Mists you'll have 5 choices for it.
Boobah Mar 27th 2012 12:33AM
"Locks get awesome, potentially raid-saving utility"
At the cost of metamorphosis's use as DPS? Nope. Not going to happen. The attitude will be the standard "I'm being brought to DPS, I need to do everything I can to push the most damage possible; if the raid needed another tank, they'd have brought another tank."
You clearly can't hold the boss for long anyway if it's not a real tanking option, which means that the DPS you left on the table for that utility will probably do at least as much to get the boss down, and the DPS is useful all the time.
Go VH! Mar 27th 2012 12:40AM
I see where you're coming from, but I agree with Boobah's point. Making it a glyph means you kind of have to plan on what you'll be doing ahead of time, and I don't see why anyone in a dungeon or raid would plan on "sort of tanking." I think most players are going to want people to continue to specialize; as you say, "if you want to tank, roll a tank." Inversely, I think most players will expect Demonology Warlocks to stick purely to dps.
The extra survivability will be nice for going back through old content, but I'm still unsure what Blizz expects Warlocks to do with extra threat generation attached to a glyph. Eh, it's a beta. Let's see where it goes.
Snuzzle Mar 27th 2012 7:45AM
And some of us have one of each of those available tanks (and will have the monk in Mists) and were simply thrilled there might be a sixth, even if they can't queue as a tank in LFD. It would have been nice to be a viable option anyway, sort of like BM hunters tanking.
greenthumbs Mar 27th 2012 12:39AM
Did everyone honestly not see this coming? I'm really surprised by the comments here.
Aids Mar 28th 2012 6:11AM
We were given a glyph that, for all intents and purposes, said "Your role changes from DPS to tank." It gives 500% threat, boosts armour to plate levels, gives us a taunt with an 8 second CD, gives damage reduction scaling with Mastery, reduces our DPS to tank levels, and that's not to mention the many survivability CDs that are exactly the same as other tanks' that are in the beta.
Forgive us for thinking a glyph that turned us into tanks meant we could be tanks.
Tisch Mar 27th 2012 12:45AM
I think the point of the complaints is...if it is tuned to give locks a very low level of off-tank ability like cat geared druids switching to bear form, then what is the purpose of the glyph?
Pro: So if a tank goes down mid-fight the lock (if they have the glyph equipped, which they won't due to the reason below) they might be able to jump in and extend the fight a few seconds more before wiping?
Con: No serious raider is going to gimp themselves by using this instead of a dps adding glyph, just in case the rare scenario above happens.
On the flipside, I could see the other tanking classes throwing a fit if this had gone through. It wouldn't be fair to other classes if a lock could tank in his cloth dps gear (without having to earn a "tank" set), compared to say bear druids. And they aren't going to add cloth tanking gear. A lock tank in pvp gear would be as close as it would come. I still would have liked to have seen it. It had me excited to brush the dust off my old lock BC main.
Pfooti Mar 27th 2012 12:57AM
Frankly, I'm surprised. The glyph doesn't allow you to change roles midfight (save the day!) unless they ALSO add an ability to swap between glyphs as an instant during combat (equivalent to changing forms or weapons). Unless there's some silly gimmick fight, I don't see this working at all.
My assumption was something like, "hey, we can make demo tanks, but we don't want to either overwrite the entire demo spec or make a 4th spec for anybody but our pet furries, so let's test things out with this crazy glyph thing for a while. If it works, we can follow up." With all the changes that glyph brings, demo tanks end up with cooldowns, a tanking form/stance, threat generation, and mad mitigation. Toss parry on top of all that, throw in a bigger DPS tax with a "vengeance" that stacks spellpower, and you have a decent tank setup.
That said, the biggest weakness would be the weird itemization thing. You could maybe make locktanks chase parry/dodge the way bears chase it (by getting dodge from agi and equipping tanking jewelry on top of DPS leather). Throw in some int->something conversion to make int a secondary tanking stat, and you're okay.
All told, it was exciting for a bit: warlocks have been getting the shaft all cataclysm. I've had mine shelved since 4.1 or so (and I have been playing that warlock, off and on, since vanilla days; I'd never had it shelved that long). I am pretty excited about how the three DPS trees are shaping up, and was thoroughly squee over the prospect of tanking on a warlock. That'd save my central WoW dissonance: I like warlocks the best, but I also like tanking occasionally, and can't resolve that tension well. For a while, I tried using DKs to make it work out, but that just didn't work either.
Oh well.
breadfan Mar 27th 2012 3:28AM
I smell a 4th talent tree for Locks in 6.0
robitrock Mar 27th 2012 1:16AM
I like how every xpac locks think they can tank and every xpac that turns out to be false yet you keep falling for it.
Just assume you can't then you won't be disappointed
Boozard Mar 27th 2012 1:20AM
that's too bad. another hybrid that can go tank/rdps would be good for the game. only druids can do that currently.
Aranyszin Mar 27th 2012 1:21AM
"That shouldn't stop the glyph of Demon Hunting from being fun though. Just useful."
ukwest Mar 27th 2012 1:56AM
So if the glyph isn't for tanking what is it for? I wouldn't waste a slot for it if I can't tank. How much fun is having the cock tease glyph?
Hob Mar 27th 2012 6:43AM
You know how people like to say, "There are no wrong decisions" and act all Zen and one with the universe, but in the back of your mind you're pretty sure they're laughing at you when you're not around, saying stuff like, "That dude just made the stupidest decision ever" ... ???
At least it will make it easier for raid leaders to un-invite warlocks. "Oh, I see you have the not-a-tank glyph... yeah, thanks for showing up, but we can do it with nine with week."