Blue Posts: Ghostcrawler returns saying no to warlock tanking spec

Ghostcrawler has returned to the forums, for at least one post in the beta section, to quell the warlock tanking talk that's been going on ...
Blue posts
Ghostcrawler -- Warlock tanks
Just to make our intent clear, the Glyph of Demon Hunting isn't intended to turn Demonology warlocks into a tanking spec. You won't be able to queue as a tank for Dungeon Finder for instance and won't have the survivability or tools of say a Protection paladin.
Historically, warlocks felt tankier than other casters and could even off-tank some encounters. We have made an effort in Mists to recapture some of that flavor. A warlock with this glyph should feel like they are about as effective tanking as an Arms warrior who pulls out a shield and swaps to Defensive Stance, or a Feral druid who goes into Bear form. You might be able to off-tank adds or pick up an actual boss for a short period of time if the tank goes down.
To make warlocks an actual tank would take more significant changes. For example, we want tanks to have to pick up separate tanking gear than their DPS gear (this is even true of druids) and want tanks to have to give up some of their DPS potential in exchange for their survivability. In short, it needs to be a commitment, and that's the sort of thing that needs larger gameplay changes than just a glyph.
That shouldn't stop the glyph of Demon Hunting from being fun though. As you can probably tell, we are trying to make even the major glyphs more about character customization and fun.
Historically, warlocks felt tankier than other casters and could even off-tank some encounters. We have made an effort in Mists to recapture some of that flavor. A warlock with this glyph should feel like they are about as effective tanking as an Arms warrior who pulls out a shield and swaps to Defensive Stance, or a Feral druid who goes into Bear form. You might be able to off-tank adds or pick up an actual boss for a short period of time if the tank goes down.
To make warlocks an actual tank would take more significant changes. For example, we want tanks to have to pick up separate tanking gear than their DPS gear (this is even true of druids) and want tanks to have to give up some of their DPS potential in exchange for their survivability. In short, it needs to be a commitment, and that's the sort of thing that needs larger gameplay changes than just a glyph.
That shouldn't stop the glyph of Demon Hunting from being fun though. As you can probably tell, we are trying to make even the major glyphs more about character customization and fun.
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Reader Comments (Page 6 of 7)
Smashbolt Mar 27th 2012 8:40AM
"At least it will make it easier for raid leaders to un-invite warlocks. "Oh, I see you have the not-a-tank glyph... yeah, thanks for showing up, but we can do it with nine with week.""
Any raid leader who would rather run one player short than run with someone who's got one "incorrect" glyph (that can be changed any time outside combat) is an ass, and that warlock's way better off not being in that group.
Hob Mar 27th 2012 5:14PM
So if you have a warlock trying to get into a raid with the wrong glyph, you can rest assured that all of their other decisions - rotations, gear, etc. - are correct, right? Because it's so easy to change out one glyph while not in combat, and that doesn't speak volumes about the player.
/pugged too many times with the hunter who has no pet and tries to melee
Philster043 Mar 27th 2012 1:58AM
So I decide to go on WowInsider.com and see what I've missed for the day.
Warlock gets a new glyph.
Warlocks talk about being tanks.
Ghostcrawler says no.
People are mad.
Does that about sum it up? Will priests get a glyph tomorrow that makes them think they're going to be tanks, too? Because that's how silly this entire thing has looked to me. REALLY?
Possum Mar 27th 2012 4:39AM
I guess it turns out Warlocks are emo. Who woulda thunkit?
Aids Mar 28th 2012 6:14AM
The reason we thought we were going to be tanks was because the glyph, in every way, shape, and form, TURNED US INTO TANKS. Do a bit of research and you'll see this is true.
Ametrine Mar 27th 2012 2:31AM
from later comments, it seems he's reconsidering it, since they initially thought it would be "just a niche" thing, but they're surprised by how well the idea is being accepted.
souvlaki Mar 27th 2012 3:19AM
The only thing that could return me to PVE (warlock tanking) goes away... GG Blizzard.
ElrithCC Mar 27th 2012 3:27AM
BRING ON ACTUAL DEMON HUNTERS AS A CLASS plz
rivertondrummer Mar 27th 2012 3:27AM
As a mage I feast on all of your warlock tears! mwhahaha
Killik Mar 27th 2012 4:20AM
Reading far too much into Ghostcrawler's comment about Druids, but does this imply the return of tank-stat leather?
Ramses Mar 27th 2012 9:33AM
Druid is splitting into 4 specs. One of which is the guardian spec. That particular spec is a dedicated tank spec. Also, the new monk is a leather wearing class and it too has a dedicated tank spec.
Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that tanking leather could return.
Possum Mar 27th 2012 4:38AM
I love that people are getting angry that something they assumed to be the case isn't. "But I had all this evidence!!BLAAAAH!!RAAA!!!" Doesn't mean shit if you've assumed the wrong thing. Blizzard doesn't owe a tanking spec to you because of all the 'evidence' of that one glyph.
Danstewart77 Mar 27th 2012 5:51AM
And Warlocks go back to being the least played class. /iamjackscrushedhopesandsreams
Paulmason7 Mar 27th 2012 6:42AM
I think the glyph is a great idea for situational tanking. However I don't see how they managed to miss the simplest solution for making it work. Everyone is correct, making it a glyph that lowers our dps is an awful idea. All they need to do to fix this is add "while in demon armour" at the end. That way it offers us the ability to use it through a glyph and to just switch armors in combat for when we need it, without affecting our dps when were not using it. We use fel armour to dps anyway. There, I fixed it with 4 words. Now you owe me your soul. (I'm a warlock, that's how I roll).
amryxx Mar 27th 2012 8:51AM
Do people seriously you can turn a DPS class into a tank with one glyph?
They took the trouble to separate Feral DPS and tanking, and (some of) you guys think that they intended to go the opposite direction - allow Warlocks to tank - with one measly glyph?
I mean come on people, I know WoW's mechanics have been simplified over the years, but it's not *that* simple.
locken Mar 27th 2012 8:53AM
avatar
Ghostcrawler
Blue Poster
From Ghostcrawler
#25 - 2012/03/27 05:18:00 AM
As some of you have pointed out, the glyph of Demon Hunting in your beta build doesn't deliver on what I described above as the design. The newer version of the glyph, hopefully available in the next beta build, allows a warlock to toggle in and out of the off-tank / survival mode, more like the druid going Bear or the warrior going Defensive.
The new shapeshift granted by the glyph is called Threatening Presence (PH) and adds Taunt and Fury Ward to the normal Metamorphosis toolkit. You still get the damage reduction from mastery instead of the damage boost from mastery while in this form. You can also choose to go into normal Metamorphosis even if you have the glyph. Let us know how it feels.
We appreciate all the feedback and passion on this topic. We expected this glyph would serve a pretty niche community and were surprised at how many players were excited about it. We are still in beta and are still very much experimenting with what kind of gamplay we can deliver in glyphs.
Strawder Mar 27th 2012 8:59AM
Tank,schmank.
He can say what he wants. With the right gear, the right know-how and the proper approach, Warlocks will be tanking plenty of crap in Extreme Soloing of old raids, even more so than they do now.
They may not be able to tank current content as a Queued tank, but this will VASTLY increase what they can do in older content.
Jaq Mar 27th 2012 9:32AM
Personally, I'm glad about this for one singular reason.
There is a lock in my guild that ALREADY thinks he can tank. He'll pop his voidwalker during five mans and pull off the tank on purpose. He will run in to hellfire trash packs in raids before the tanks get aggro. (When I tanked for my guild, I told the healers to let him die when he did that to hopefully get the point across. Still didn't work.) The announcement of this glyph had already had him boasting in guild chat about how we'd have to deal with lock tanks now, and seemed amazed when I said "you know this is likely to be HIGHLY situational, right?"
It's amazing how much people read into one change this early into the beta.
Shrikesnest Mar 27th 2012 9:35AM
I can sympathize with the people who wanted a Demo tank spec, and I can understand the confusion; it may be "just a glyph" but it's a doozy of a glyph. However, a dedicated demo tank spec was (and is) unlikely for several reasons: for one thing, Blizzard just did a fairly inelegant bit of work splitting the feral tree in two to get away from this exact sort of thing, and for another allowing a demo lock to turn into a tank just by swapping a glyph would be pretty damn incongruous. And the odds of the whole spec being changed are very small - changing Blood to a dedicated tanking spec caused a ton of hurt feelings, and that class had only been in the game for one expansion at the time. Turning someone's main from Vanilla into a role they don't like to play would be very unpopular.
However, hating on GC is both wrong and counterproductive. Certainly, agitate for changes when they're necessary (e.g you can't switch a glyph like a shield or Druid form; already fixed in next build) but don't shoot the messenger if you want to keep getting messages.
Lastly, and most importantly, during a beta you -must- manage your expectations. The devs try a lot of stuff during beta, and they change or scrap essentially all of it over the course of testing. Don't get attached to things, and don't throw tantrums when they change or go away. The devs are more likely to listen to calm, reasonable feedback than long rants.
ukwest Mar 27th 2012 10:27AM
That would be a great point if GC was a PR flac monkey, but he is lead system designer. He didn't just deliver the message, he took part in the decision. I don't think you should hate on him anyway, it is just a video game, but sucking up to him won't get you into beta any faster.