Dev Watercooler: Mists of Pandaria looting explained

While rolling for transmog stuff is definitely an issue when the game decides who gets what, Ghostcrawler flat-out states that Raid Finder is not the place for vying for transmog loot. There are other places for that. This new personal loot system will be used for world bosses as well.
Ghostcrawler also revealed the bonus roll system, where players will be able to earn tokens from various factions in Pandaria to spend on (among other things) a bonus roll when attempting to get loot off of a boss. This system will award tokens through tasks and dailies, giving people who prepare for Raid Finder a bit of an advantage if they choose to spend a token earned. Faction rewards, enchantments, epic items, and factional gear can also be purchased with these tokens.
The valor points system is also undergoing a revamp, with points taking on a new role of upgrading existing gear, but the final system is not really ready for much discussion. And, yes, the explanation for AoE looting is priceless. Hit the jump for the full post.
Ghostcrawler -- Mists of Pandaria Looting Explained
Hey, how about that landslide of Mists of Pandaria information? It has taken a few days, and will probably take a few more, for the nuance of everything to really sink in. One of the topics we've been getting lots of questions about is the crazy new loot model we're introducing in Mists. We've answered several related questions in the forums, but thought it might be prudent to just put all the information in one place.
I should clarify that the systems we're introducing are actually pretty simple in practice. I'm only going into a fair amount of detail because those are the kinds of questions we are getting. You don't have to understand all the particulars to participate, and we're certain that it will just all make sense once you are experiencing it in-game instead of hearing it described (that whole "show, don't tell" thing). Let's begin:
Personal Loot
Here is how looting works in today's Raid Finder groups:
We understand some players are interested in off-spec or transmogrification loot, and we will consider future changes to the system to accommodate those desires. However, we're not sure fundamentally that Raid Finder is the best avenue for acquiring that loot. You would either need to take it from another player who actually desires it for their main spec, or a conversation would have to take place to make sure nobody else needed it more than you do. In other words, you would have to stop people from just rolling Need whenever they could. I've seen some suggestions that we allow an option for essentially "I'm happy to get loot beyond just what my main spec can use," and maybe that's the kind of approach we could take, but let's make sure the basic design works first. For now, there are other avenues, such as dungeons, faction gear, normal raids or older content to provide off-spec or cosmetic gear.
Here is a model I've seen some people say they want:
The personal loot system will initially be used for Raid Finder and for world bosses. We want to use it for world bosses because we want it to be fairly easy to form PUGs to take down these bosses when they're up. If my raiding guild is about to take on a world boss, and some lonely hunter is asking to join the group (it's always a lonely hunter, isn't it?), it would be nice to be able to bring him on without worrying about that jerk taking loot away from me or my friends. We want to foster a "the more the merrier" attitude with world bosses.
This is why it's so important to us that the size of the group shouldn't matter. We don't want guilds to try to kill a world boss with the smallest number of players necessary in order to maximize loot per player. When everyone has their own chance at loot, why not make the group as large as you can? Note that you still have to be a member of the group that taps and kills the boss. We want to have a little bit of competition for world boss kills, especially between the Horde and the Alliance. We think that is part of the fun of world bosses; otherwise, why not just stick the gronn in a cave? (That sounds dirtier than I intended.) We don't want everyone in the zone to get credit just by lurking around. We want you to cooperate with other players, and we're trying to remove barriers to cooperation by eliminating loot drama.
Bonus Roll
We have one other new system that will use part of the personal loot model. This is what we're calling the bonus roll.
Once upon a time, raiders had to invest a lot of time and effort every week preparing for a raid. This felt kind of cool in the abstract because it built anticipation, rewarded players who prepared for raid night, and otherwise just added a little more ceremony to the act of entering the dragon's lair to seek glory and treasure. The reality is that you spent your time killing mobs to farm flask materials or gathering Whipper Root Tubers. The reality didn't match the fantasy and we eventually greatly minimized the need to farm consumables altogether. Of course, that led to another problem, as raiders would log on for raid nights, finish, and then have nothing to do the rest of the week. The bonus roll is intended to give those players something to do that is hopefully more enjoyable than grinding elementals or Blasted Lands boars. We want to see players out in the world doing stuff, and we want that stuff to be a little more interesting (if not downright fun) than farming mats.
The way it works is like this: We have two major Pandaren factions, the Elders and the Craftsmen. Completing daily quests and scenarios for each group earns you one of two currencies. The Craftsmen tokens are spent mostly on cosmetic items. The Elder tokens are spent mostly on power items. The intent here is to let players who want some optional content to be able to devote time to both Craftsmen and Elders, while more min-max focused players or players who don't want such a time commitment can stick to Elders. The Elder tokens can be used to purchase head enchants, some nice purple items, and the kind of gear you've come to expect from factions. However, they also sell an item called a Charm of Good Fortune. Imagine you can complete a quest once a week to buy one Charm for 25 Elder Tokens. You also might be able to save up a few charms, but you won't be able to hoard them until the next tier of content.
If you have one or more Charms of Good Fortune, then whenever you kill a raid boss (in Raid Finder, normal or heroic) then a new UI window will pop up asking if you want to spend your Charm on a bonus roll. If you click yes, then you'll instantly get another shot at that boss's loot table! You will always win something from the bonus roll, such as a pile of gold, gems, or flasks. However, you also have a small (but not miniscule) chance of receiving a piece of epic loot. As with the personal loot system, the item will always be something designed for your current spec. Also, just as with personal loot, the game doesn't analyze if you already have the item, if the item would be an upgrade for you, or if you prefer axes to swords or anything like that.
Most importantly, winning a bonus roll has no effect on what other players win on their bonus rolls or what the boss drops normally. If you have saved up several Charms (this will probably happen when you play but don't raid every week) then you can use one per boss, but you can't cash in multiples on a single boss kill. If you want to save up all of your Charms for the final boss because he (or she in the case of the mantid raid) drops weapons or whatever, that is your prerogative, but you'll only be able to spend one per kill. If you want to save up your Charms for heroic bosses, go for it.
Here is an example of per-person loot and the bonus roll in action:
Area of Effect Looting
Yes, we are doing area looting. After killing a group of enemies, you may have a bunch of corpses lying around (perhaps because you went all Bladestorm on a bunch of hozen). If you loot one of the corpses, the loot window will include items from all of the nearby corpses for which you have loot rights. Some recent games have incorporated a similar feature, and it's one of those things that players just want in their MMO these days. It's already in and it works fine.
The Future of Valor
The second change I want to mention is that we plan to adjust the role of Valor points. Valor (or the various other names that the currency has had over the years) was originally added to WoW for two reasons: it helped to mitigate really bad luck, for those times when the boss just refused to drop the item you wanted, and it helped encourage players to stay with the group even if they didn't need anything off the next boss.
Over time, we have felt like Valor has taken on too prominent a role, to the point that it risks becoming more important than actual boss loot. This is particularly the case when the tier sets are available on the Valor vendors. We think killing dragons and ransacking their hoard is more epic than shopping at the magic armor store, so we want to shift back toward boss kills being the primary source of epic PvE gear.
In Mists of Pandaria, Valor will be used to power a new feature that allows you to increase the item level of your existing epic items. This means that each week, you can become a little more powerful, hopefully allowing you to kill that boss that has eluded you thus far. There will be a bit of a game in trying to decide when to upgrade your gear versus hoping for a new piece to drop from a raid boss, but our plan is that even heroic gear can be upgraded slightly in this way.
We won't allow you to upgrade Raid Finder gear so much that it becomes better than normal gear, but imagine if you can increase your item level by around eight points. At this time, we're thinking there won't be gear on the Valor vendors at all, but we'll see how that shakes out. Valor will come primarily from dungeons (including challenge modes) and scenarios. You might earn a little from daily quests and raiding as well, but that won't be as efficient.
Final Thoughts
That's a lot of information to absorb all at once I know, and I'm sure it will lead to dozens of questions. It'd be more helpful to us if you were to focus your discussion on how things will feel, and the basic rules of the system, instead of immediately leaping to the conclusion that you've figured out some exploit and ergo the whole thing is doomed to failure. We've stitched up a lot of the egregious loopholes already and the system is a little more complicated behind the scenes than I figured was worth getting into here.
Check it out in beta if you get the chance. Let us know how it feels. We have time to iterate and refine this stuff. Good luck on getting the loot you want, too... but not too quickly.
Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street is the lead systems designer of World of Warcraft. The first epic item he can recall getting was the Drillborer Disk.
I should clarify that the systems we're introducing are actually pretty simple in practice. I'm only going into a fair amount of detail because those are the kinds of questions we are getting. You don't have to understand all the particulars to participate, and we're certain that it will just all make sense once you are experiencing it in-game instead of hearing it described (that whole "show, don't tell" thing). Let's begin:
Personal Loot
Here is how looting works in today's Raid Finder groups:
- The boss dies.
- The game randomly decides which items off of the boss's loot table drop.
- The group rolls Need, Greed, or Pass on each item.
- If you were raiding with a group of friends, you might discuss who should get each item. Even if you ultimately lost, hopefully you are happy that a friend got an upgrade and that your group as a whole is now a little bit stronger.
- But if you're in Raid Finder, you are quite possibly alone with a bunch of strangers.
- So, if you can Need, you probably do, because there's no time for discussion, some of the rollers may be AFK, and even if you piss someone off, you aren't likely to have to pay the social cost of doing so since you'll never see them again.
- The highest roll wins.
- Drama ensues.
- The boss dies.
- The game automatically decides who won some loot, and gives those players a spec-appropriate item.
- Some players may still get mad, but hopefully they are mad at the laws of probability and not at the rest of the raid.
- The boss dies.
- Each player has a chance to win loot, independent of the other players.
- For each player who wins loot, the game randomly assigns them a spec-appropriate item from that boss's loot table. This subset contains only items that the game (meaning the designers in this case) thinks are appropriate for your class and current spec.
- Notice that you aren't rolling Need or Greed. You don't have an option to Pass. The game just says "Take this."
- You can't trade this item, or that would defeat the purpose of removing the social pressure on groups of strangers. If you don't want the item, you are free to vendor, delete, or disenchant it.
We understand some players are interested in off-spec or transmogrification loot, and we will consider future changes to the system to accommodate those desires. However, we're not sure fundamentally that Raid Finder is the best avenue for acquiring that loot. You would either need to take it from another player who actually desires it for their main spec, or a conversation would have to take place to make sure nobody else needed it more than you do. In other words, you would have to stop people from just rolling Need whenever they could. I've seen some suggestions that we allow an option for essentially "I'm happy to get loot beyond just what my main spec can use," and maybe that's the kind of approach we could take, but let's make sure the basic design works first. For now, there are other avenues, such as dungeons, faction gear, normal raids or older content to provide off-spec or cosmetic gear.
Here is a model I've seen some people say they want:
- The boss dies.
- I get the exact item or items I want.
- I never have to come back and kill this boss again.
- I politely ask Blizzard when there will be new content for me to run.
The personal loot system will initially be used for Raid Finder and for world bosses. We want to use it for world bosses because we want it to be fairly easy to form PUGs to take down these bosses when they're up. If my raiding guild is about to take on a world boss, and some lonely hunter is asking to join the group (it's always a lonely hunter, isn't it?), it would be nice to be able to bring him on without worrying about that jerk taking loot away from me or my friends. We want to foster a "the more the merrier" attitude with world bosses.
This is why it's so important to us that the size of the group shouldn't matter. We don't want guilds to try to kill a world boss with the smallest number of players necessary in order to maximize loot per player. When everyone has their own chance at loot, why not make the group as large as you can? Note that you still have to be a member of the group that taps and kills the boss. We want to have a little bit of competition for world boss kills, especially between the Horde and the Alliance. We think that is part of the fun of world bosses; otherwise, why not just stick the gronn in a cave? (That sounds dirtier than I intended.) We don't want everyone in the zone to get credit just by lurking around. We want you to cooperate with other players, and we're trying to remove barriers to cooperation by eliminating loot drama.
Bonus Roll
We have one other new system that will use part of the personal loot model. This is what we're calling the bonus roll.
Once upon a time, raiders had to invest a lot of time and effort every week preparing for a raid. This felt kind of cool in the abstract because it built anticipation, rewarded players who prepared for raid night, and otherwise just added a little more ceremony to the act of entering the dragon's lair to seek glory and treasure. The reality is that you spent your time killing mobs to farm flask materials or gathering Whipper Root Tubers. The reality didn't match the fantasy and we eventually greatly minimized the need to farm consumables altogether. Of course, that led to another problem, as raiders would log on for raid nights, finish, and then have nothing to do the rest of the week. The bonus roll is intended to give those players something to do that is hopefully more enjoyable than grinding elementals or Blasted Lands boars. We want to see players out in the world doing stuff, and we want that stuff to be a little more interesting (if not downright fun) than farming mats.
The way it works is like this: We have two major Pandaren factions, the Elders and the Craftsmen. Completing daily quests and scenarios for each group earns you one of two currencies. The Craftsmen tokens are spent mostly on cosmetic items. The Elder tokens are spent mostly on power items. The intent here is to let players who want some optional content to be able to devote time to both Craftsmen and Elders, while more min-max focused players or players who don't want such a time commitment can stick to Elders. The Elder tokens can be used to purchase head enchants, some nice purple items, and the kind of gear you've come to expect from factions. However, they also sell an item called a Charm of Good Fortune. Imagine you can complete a quest once a week to buy one Charm for 25 Elder Tokens. You also might be able to save up a few charms, but you won't be able to hoard them until the next tier of content.
If you have one or more Charms of Good Fortune, then whenever you kill a raid boss (in Raid Finder, normal or heroic) then a new UI window will pop up asking if you want to spend your Charm on a bonus roll. If you click yes, then you'll instantly get another shot at that boss's loot table! You will always win something from the bonus roll, such as a pile of gold, gems, or flasks. However, you also have a small (but not miniscule) chance of receiving a piece of epic loot. As with the personal loot system, the item will always be something designed for your current spec. Also, just as with personal loot, the game doesn't analyze if you already have the item, if the item would be an upgrade for you, or if you prefer axes to swords or anything like that.
Most importantly, winning a bonus roll has no effect on what other players win on their bonus rolls or what the boss drops normally. If you have saved up several Charms (this will probably happen when you play but don't raid every week) then you can use one per boss, but you can't cash in multiples on a single boss kill. If you want to save up all of your Charms for the final boss because he (or she in the case of the mantid raid) drops weapons or whatever, that is your prerogative, but you'll only be able to spend one per kill. If you want to save up your Charms for heroic bosses, go for it.
Here is an example of per-person loot and the bonus roll in action:
- Stan is a death knight.
- Jim Bob is a warrior.
- Naomi is a hunter.
- The three friends run Raid Finder together and tackle Mogu'shan Vaults. They get matched with a bunch of random folks from across their region. On the fourth boss, the Council of Kings, the game decides that Jim Bob wins an item. Jim Bob is a Fury warrior, so the game is either going to give him a two-handed Strength axe or a Strength bracer, because those are the two Fury-appropriate items on the Council of Kings loot table (in this theoretical example). Regardless of what Jim Bob wins, Stan might also win the same items. Naomi won't ever be offered those items, because they aren't appropriate hunter loot. If she had gotten lucky and earned loot for the kill, it would have been hunter appropriate.
- Let's say Naomi is frustrated because Bob and Stan both won loot and because the trinket she wants won't ever drop. So, she decides to use a Charm of Good Fortune. Let's say she gets lucky and the game decides that she won an item instead of gold, flasks, etc. (Thanks, game!) She might get the trinket she wants, or she might get an Agility neckpiece that is also on the Council of Kings loot table. Her winning an item doesn't affect Stan or Jim Bob or anyone else, even if they use their Charms as well.
Area of Effect Looting
Yes, we are doing area looting. After killing a group of enemies, you may have a bunch of corpses lying around (perhaps because you went all Bladestorm on a bunch of hozen). If you loot one of the corpses, the loot window will include items from all of the nearby corpses for which you have loot rights. Some recent games have incorporated a similar feature, and it's one of those things that players just want in their MMO these days. It's already in and it works fine.
The Future of Valor
The second change I want to mention is that we plan to adjust the role of Valor points. Valor (or the various other names that the currency has had over the years) was originally added to WoW for two reasons: it helped to mitigate really bad luck, for those times when the boss just refused to drop the item you wanted, and it helped encourage players to stay with the group even if they didn't need anything off the next boss.
Over time, we have felt like Valor has taken on too prominent a role, to the point that it risks becoming more important than actual boss loot. This is particularly the case when the tier sets are available on the Valor vendors. We think killing dragons and ransacking their hoard is more epic than shopping at the magic armor store, so we want to shift back toward boss kills being the primary source of epic PvE gear.
In Mists of Pandaria, Valor will be used to power a new feature that allows you to increase the item level of your existing epic items. This means that each week, you can become a little more powerful, hopefully allowing you to kill that boss that has eluded you thus far. There will be a bit of a game in trying to decide when to upgrade your gear versus hoping for a new piece to drop from a raid boss, but our plan is that even heroic gear can be upgraded slightly in this way.
We won't allow you to upgrade Raid Finder gear so much that it becomes better than normal gear, but imagine if you can increase your item level by around eight points. At this time, we're thinking there won't be gear on the Valor vendors at all, but we'll see how that shakes out. Valor will come primarily from dungeons (including challenge modes) and scenarios. You might earn a little from daily quests and raiding as well, but that won't be as efficient.
Final Thoughts
That's a lot of information to absorb all at once I know, and I'm sure it will lead to dozens of questions. It'd be more helpful to us if you were to focus your discussion on how things will feel, and the basic rules of the system, instead of immediately leaping to the conclusion that you've figured out some exploit and ergo the whole thing is doomed to failure. We've stitched up a lot of the egregious loopholes already and the system is a little more complicated behind the scenes than I figured was worth getting into here.
Check it out in beta if you get the chance. Let us know how it feels. We have time to iterate and refine this stuff. Good luck on getting the loot you want, too... but not too quickly.
Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street is the lead systems designer of World of Warcraft. The first epic item he can recall getting was the Drillborer Disk.
It's open warfare between Alliance and Horde in Mists of Pandaria, World of Warcraft's next expansion. Jump into five new levels with new talents and class mechanics, try the new monk class, and create a pandaren character to ally with either Horde or Alliance. Look for expansion basics in our Mists FAQ, or dig into our spring press event coverage for more details!Filed under: Blizzard, Mists of Pandaria
Patch 5.3 interview with Ghostcrawler
Mystery of the Unborn Val'kyr
The latest patch 5.3 news
All of the latest Mists of Pandaria news





Reader Comments (Page 2 of 9)
clundgren Mar 27th 2012 4:06PM
I make a point of rolling need on items I already have. Then, if I win, say, another Gurthalak, I trade it to someone who can actually use it and is in the appropriate spec.
Cressida Mar 27th 2012 7:30PM
No, you're not. I have had far more positive experiences trading loot in LFR than negative ones. I think the big difference is simply attitude. That guy won, I lost. If I cuss him out, I never get the loot he's already wearing. So I ask nicely. That thing my mother always told me to do. Well, turns out she was right and people are much friendlier if you ask nicely!
And maybe I was skimming, but did it say that other people int he new loot system would know who got loot? If so, why the hell would they need that information? And if not, why can't I trade the legs I just got for the 5th time, since there is absolutely zero pressure on me to even reveal that I got them?
Patrick Mar 27th 2012 1:15PM
What about 10M looting? I mean, honestly, it's broken. It works great in a 25M scenario, but in 10M it doesn't work. The loot tables are too large, and the percentage out is too small.
Nopunin10did Mar 27th 2012 1:51PM
This isn't relevant to 10-man raids.
It's only for LFR groups, which are 25-person raids. And world bosses, which are whatever-the-heck-size-who-knows.
Draconos Mar 27th 2012 1:54PM
This looting system would mean that everyone has the same chance of winning some loot. So (in very rare instances I'm sure) there may be a possibility of nearly everyone winning some loot. If I understood the article right.
yarf Mar 27th 2012 10:11PM
someone didn't read the article all the way.
Personal loot like this is -only- from raid finder. Cross server pugs. NOT for dungeons formed by your guild or same server pugs or real id pugs. Only by hitting ctrl+i and queuing for raid finder does this loot system apply.
As for those wanting to "trade tier for other tier" remember that if someone reeeeally needs their tier legs, it's going to drop for them and not be affected by whether or not you also got it. Everyone has the same chance to receive the same tier token every single week.
I am all for this system.
Patrick Mar 27th 2012 4:20PM
What I was referring to was 10M looting as it exists today. No changes are being made to 10M, and that was my gripe. I am fine with the changes they are making. I have no qualms with it. My problem is that 10M looting is currently broken and no changes have been put forth to change it.
For accusing me of not reading the article, you surely didn't read my post.
BB Crisp Mar 27th 2012 4:38PM
@Patrick
"What I was referring to was 10M looting as it exists today. No changes are being made to 10M, and that was my gripe. I am fine with the changes they are making. I have no qualms with it. My problem is that 10M looting is currently broken and no changes have been put forth to change it."
How is it broken? Examples? If you're talking about odds, the odds are the same that you'll get a personal upgrade in 10 vs 25-man raiding, since while fewer pieces of gear will drop, the gear is distributed between fewer members. The proportions of gear to members is the same. The only difference is that there's more likely a usable upgrade among 25 players than 10, but that's the nature of larger groups and a relatively minor issue.
If you're talking about loot rolling issues, well, there are a number of options that the raid leader is at liberty to choose and participation in player-organized raids is, as always, voluntary. If you don't like the loot rules or distribution that a raid leader uses, you can always form your own raid or go LFR and use your own rules. Players want the control over how loot is distributed within their own player-created groups and taking that away from them would be a massive mistake.
So what's the 10-man raiding gear issue you're talking about?
Robert Mar 27th 2012 5:10PM
In 25-man, there's a higher chance that the loot that drops will be usable by someone in the raid. In 10-man, as there are not as many specs represents, it's more likely that the loot will be sharded.
I believe this is what Patrick was referring to. And I'm perfectly fine with it remaining as is, because it's one of the only reasons left to run 25-mans at all. 25-mans are harder to assemble, harder to keep together, harder to organize, more people = more drama, and if 25-mans weren't better at *something*, then there'd be no reason to have them in game at all.
Nina Katarina Mar 27th 2012 1:19PM
I love the new valor points concept, although I did like that there were always a few normal-level enhancements that you could get by saving up your points or surfing the auction house.
I'm hoping that they beef up crafting this time around so that there are more options for the AH goblins out there to spend their flithy lucre, and that they let the raid crafting consumables (embers, essences) or the recipes be bought with valor.
Paul Mar 27th 2012 2:28PM
I'm very interested by it, and a little concerned, mainly due to the constant issue of ilvls increasing too much over the course of an expansion, but as long as they keep it tight, it shouldn't be an issue.
I just don't want to see another article discussing how to fix the issue when they don't address the cause.
Boobah Mar 27th 2012 2:57PM
@paul:
I don't think it will contribute to gear inflation the way adding layers to a tier does; it's another way to nerf content as the tier progresses, since if most of your valor comes from outside raids, then you can improve your gear some every week when you hit a gear-check boss that's sitting between you and the loot you'd otherwise need to get past it.
noel mcleod Mar 27th 2012 4:24PM
And for those of us who don't raid, don't want to raid, have never done LFR and probably never will ... yet another kick in the teeth on top of the kick in the teeth that much of Cataclysm was.
I'm sorry, the majority of my time is PvP and it sure looks like I'm going to need to find a new time sink because it sure looks like they are going to break PvP and pretty much relegate non-Raiders to third-class citizens (from the current second-class).
Can anyone suggest a good MMO to move to?
Ghostcrawler, there are people who play to do other things than raid. If you keep trying to force us to raid, you WILL break the game. I belong to two guilds with over 100 accounts in each, both are lvl 25 and NEITHER ONE RAIDS (except SOME people doing LFR, and that's only SOME!). My kids have been playing since TBC and DON"T even have 85's (20+ alts, highest is 70's).
TimR Mar 27th 2012 4:49PM
@ noel mcleod
I think you're jumping to conclusions a little quick. They didn't discuss PvP rewards at all. More than likely there are PvP related ways for you to update your PvP gear. How does this loot system put you at a disadvantage if you do not raid?
Jason Mar 27th 2012 9:27PM
I have a bit of a problem with the new Valor changes because I don't raid. I just hope it means I'm not stuck in the same "upgraded" Heroic blues for 2 years until the 3 end of expansion 5-mans are released.
Justice and Valor are a way for casual players to gradually gear up over time (not a short time either) and to make us feel like there is still something to play for. I would also think -considering the new LFR loot changes - that Valor is a way to gear up your off-spec as well. I read on the official forums that somebody was asking to be allowed to spend Valor on white transmog gear. I think that would be nice for casual players as well. A chance to transmog our blue heroic gear into something trendy.
Kuro Mar 27th 2012 1:22PM
It's the same as "destined gear" from SWTOR normal raids (and I'm sure from other MMO's as well.) And finally they cave to AOE looting. They really should have done it for Cata when they first developed it and then removed it. I don't know why they resist these Quality of Live changes for as long as they do.
This also helps with the cutting-edge farming problems we had at the start of this tier. They can no longer stack raids with alts and get the set-bonus gear to the mains who need it.
...and that is like the weirdest tea-party ever.
RGSmith Mar 27th 2012 1:22PM
I'm not sure about the valor changes. Hopefully justice gear still is in game. I like having the option to buy gear that is one raid below if I have bad luck.
Caz Mar 27th 2012 2:00PM
Agreed. Since the article didn't mention JPs at all, I imagine they will stay the same.
The new Valor system seems...weird, to be honest. I guess in the end it won't really be that different than what we do right now.
Currently, we run LFR and get an iLevel 384 tier item, then we can spend Valor points and buy a look-alike piece that is iLevel 397.
Seems like instead, we will be able to spend our Valor points and upgrade the iLevel 384 item to, say, a 390 one week and then maybe a 397 the next week - eventually reaching the same point but without replacing the item completely.
togaman5000 Mar 27th 2012 2:23PM
Ghostcrawler stated that you wouldn't be able to upgrade to the next tier's ilvl, which makes sense. Some differentiation still needs to exist between the difficulties, with the rewards to match.
Architect Mar 27th 2012 2:29PM
GC said, "We won't allow you to upgrade Raid Finder gear so much that it becomes better than normal gear, but imagine if you can increase your item level by around eight points."
So 384 gear from LFR becomes 392; but not quite 397 of current Valor gear.
I hope they leave the Justice system in place.