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3-31-2012 @ 12:46PM
Why do half of the tanks(plate tanks) get their own gear when the other half (leather tanks) don't?
3-31-2012 @ 12:55PM
Because up until now, Guardians were the only leather tanks. And even then, for a long time they weren't even viable--you couldn't tank as a druid even if you wanted to. This is why gear was never made for them or specialized for them, and going forward it didn't make sense to make gear for them, as they were additionally only two classes who could even USE leather, let alone plate leather. Imagine the Holy Paladin gear issue we have now, but larger. That said, even in Mists we're only going to have two leather tanks (Brewmaster and Guardian), while we still have more plate tanks (Protection, Protadin, and Blood).Unless rogues start tanking anytime soon, I wouldn't foresee it to be worth it to start itemizing gear to work for leather tanks.
3-31-2012 @ 1:13PM
@razionYour logic is slightly flawed there. There was itemized tank plate gear for a good while before Death Knights came on the scene, which meant itemized plate tank gear for only two specs.I would say that makes it very possible (however not likely) that Brewmasters and Guardian Druids could very well get leather tanking gear.
3-31-2012 @ 1:47PM
@Rhuarc: Indeed, but that was also when we had less tanks overall, which meant a consolidated amount of specs to gear for in total. With the increase in the number of tanks and, additionally, viable roles overall and thus a larger and larger sample size of gear that has to be made available for even more roles, it stands to reason that we would need more tanks in that same item mesh in order to validate gear. The more roles we add to the system, the even more we need to validate a brand new gear build.To clarify: With two supported tank roles, 100% of which were plate in vanilla, it was easy to justify tank gear for two tank specs. Now, however, we will have five in Mists. Only 2/5 of which will wear leather.
3-31-2012 @ 1:54PM
This is slightly unsettling since the leather tanks have such an advantage in lfr because they can just go in as windwalker or feral and get the same gear while plate tanks cannot. Also it makes leaves plate offtanks unable to get gear for the bonus roll if they dps a fight.
3-31-2012 @ 2:23PM
@ RazionThree PointsOne your summary is not all that acurate. You discount bears as viable tanks in early endgame which I think is inacurate because of the bearcatting offtank. However, you cannont have your cake and eat it too if bears are to be discounted then prot pallies must also be noted were mostly gimmick aoe tanks in early game. Second they have already made agi leather with dodge in BC and this handy dandy linkhttp://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1093784-The-Return-of-Dodge-Leather illustrates that 2 specs is enough for unique gear to be createdThirdA blue said that tank gear should be seperate from dps gear and in () put even bears which i think is a hint which way they are going. Besides splitting bears from cats becomes even easier to balance if they have different gear sets.I said all that to say that you may well be right about a lack of unique gear for bears/brews but 4 specs sharing the same gear seems more unlikely then 2 if you look at the chart and your tone treated that as a silly ? and I believe it is a valid ?.
3-31-2012 @ 2:32PM
just realized i was wrong. They had weapons and leather gear in BC with extra armor not dodge. It was widely recognized as what a bear should wear. I simply meant that gear that leather gear that catered more to a bears needs has already exsisted.
3-31-2012 @ 3:15PM
What worries me more than if we will get leather tanking gear ist the fact that brewmasters will need parry in addition to dodge. Evening out parry and dodge on a plate tank with both stats on gear is difficult enough, but evening it out on gear without either is going to be a nightmare.And if we ever do get tanking leather there either can't be any parry on it or we will once again see tiers in which items are unusable to bears, like before they adjusted stamina values on all items.
3-31-2012 @ 3:27PM
Yes, back in BC when bears almost became 'real' tanks (there were still encounters that were nigh-untankable by anything but a warrior vs. one gimmick fight that required one of each kind) there was some bear-specific gear. It was widely reviled because A) there was usually only one piece (or fewer!) per slot per tier and B) they still clogged loot tables, not least because many raiding guilds had no feral tanks. And even with the existence of bear leather, the itemization was horrible; see crit immunity.'Tis a heavier argument, IMO, to add a category of gear than it is to remove one. If brewmasters can use rogue leather (even if they have different stat priorities) then they should be balanced to do so with the expectation that they get their defensive stats from gems, enchants, and reforging, the way bears do now.If you've got enough space in your drop tables that there's space for pure tanking leather, then you've got space for multiple variations of agility DPS leather, including one that has stats that a leather tank can appreciate; this allows you to have, say, one piece that's ideal for subtlety, assassination, feral, and brewmaster with another that's better for combat, windwalker, and guardian, and while you'd prefer the 'ideal' piece the other one will work, if not as well.
3-31-2012 @ 4:12PM
@razion I don't think anyone is saying leather-wearing tanks need their own *meshes*. The discussion is about leather gear with agility and tank *stats*.
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