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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsBreakfast Topic: Do you like PvP?
by Olivia Grace 
Apr 3rd 2012 at 8:00AM
I wrote a Breakfast Topic recently about what you're just not that excited about in Mists, and as ever, I religiously read all the comments. While a lot of the expected stuff came up, one thing that really sprang out at me was just how many people mentioned that they really don't like PvP -- even hate it, in some cases!
As the PvP columnist here at WoW Insider, I am really quite keen on PvP! And one thing I'm really hoping to do with my columns is to get people into PvP, get people enjoying it and so on. I personally think that once you understand a few basic things about PvP, you're far more likely to enjoy it, but maybe I'm wrong.
I can think of various reasons you might not like it. I wasn't super-keen when I first started WoW. I didn't understand what resilience was. I didn't understand Battleground brackets. I didn't understand the importance of CC. I didn't know about gear. If someone duelled me, I declined. But that changed!
So I'd love to hear, first, whether you're a fan of PvP or not -- and most important, the reasons for your opinion. If you could have some advice that might prompt you to start PvPing, what would it be? As Dr. Cox says in Scrubs, "Help me to help you!"
As the PvP columnist here at WoW Insider, I am really quite keen on PvP! And one thing I'm really hoping to do with my columns is to get people into PvP, get people enjoying it and so on. I personally think that once you understand a few basic things about PvP, you're far more likely to enjoy it, but maybe I'm wrong.
I can think of various reasons you might not like it. I wasn't super-keen when I first started WoW. I didn't understand what resilience was. I didn't understand Battleground brackets. I didn't understand the importance of CC. I didn't know about gear. If someone duelled me, I declined. But that changed!
So I'd love to hear, first, whether you're a fan of PvP or not -- and most important, the reasons for your opinion. If you could have some advice that might prompt you to start PvPing, what would it be? As Dr. Cox says in Scrubs, "Help me to help you!"
Filed under: Breakfast Topics
Reader Comments (Page 11 of 11)
vlad_dracul2k2002 Apr 3rd 2012 2:36PM
I'm trying to get into PvP a bit more, but its really difficult if you're not decked out head-to-toe in Heirlooms.
And then there are times when the opposing team camps out at the graveyard with a few players just take care of the objectives. And I think the most egregious part is that EVERYBODY IS OK WITH THIS!!
*breathes deeply & then tries to calm down* I'm sorry, but that's just a really tough thing for me to wrap my head around, the idea that its ok to act like an arsehat. And it doesn't even take skill, just a general "Hey, let's go over to their graveyard and kill everyone as they rez."
Raven Apr 3rd 2012 3:37PM
PVP had my heart when I figured out I could spell steal mirror image
Tyson Apr 3rd 2012 3:02PM
I love PVP. Its a whole facet of the game that I can enjoy when I'm not doing much else but sitting around in SW. There is nothing in WOW that is more enjoyable then going into an RBG and coordinating your efforts with your teamates and pulling off the win.
Normal BG's are honestly one of the most annoying experiences that WOW has to offer. I can't stand it when the person or persons guarding stables leaves it unattended. Or not AOEing the flag. The lack of teamwork in normal bg's has caused me not never que for it unless I have brought some friends which almost always tip the scales in our favor but if people don't want use teamwork to win then its what I have to do to enjoy the game. Sometimes I even feel bad for our opponents.
One thing I hope to see changed in MoP is having more bg's added. It's kinda annoying to see new raids and dungeons added all the time (which I will go in and do) but never have new bgs or arenas added except with a new expansion comes out.
GormanGhaste Apr 3rd 2012 3:19PM
No, I don't have the reaction time to enjoy pvp. Also, I'm just not a competitive person nor do I enjoy an "us vs. them" mentality.
I think Pet Battles are about my speed :)
kaelspriest Apr 3rd 2012 3:20PM
I don't like PvP.
1) I don't like the culture of hostility. My experience of people who like to PvP, overall, is that they are *jerks.* Not all of them. Perhaps not even a majority are actively jerkish, although most seem to tolerate it. But it's enough to completely ruin my experience in battlegrounds and on PvP servers. And I'm not talking about the opposing faction - I'm talking about *my own side.* The sheer volume of viciously insulting chat in PvP areas is enough to make me never want to do it.
2) I'm gay. I don't like being called a f*g/got. Or a p*ssy. I don't like being called gay as if that's a bad thing. I don't like being called a girl as if that's a bad thing. I'm also extremely upset by the n-word and other racist language just on principle. And the PvP community is full of all of that - not just in the jerkish behaviour I covered in (1) but also just thrown around casually. I'm not all that thin-skinned about it - I actually enjoy interacting in trade chat, because even though there are some people who troll with derogatory language, there are also a lot of decent, intelligent people who will call it out. But that balance isn't present in PvP environments.
3) I'm primarily a healer. I like healing. I do not like being CCd. I do not like CCing. I do not like being interrupted. I do not like spending time trying to avoid being interrupted. It is impossible to simply go into an organized PvP environment and do what I like to do - I spend ~80% of my time doing things I don't like to do.
4) I don't always want to fight. I don't even particularly want to fight NPCs most of the time - I'm a champion at avoiding combat (probably because I'm a healer). When I want to do something, I want to do it, not fight someone/something else for the opportunity to do it. People who want to encourage open world PvP seem to operate under the assumption that everyone should want to fight, all the time, and should be willing to endure all manner of inconvenience (see: removal of HGWT, no flying until 90) in order to arrange it so that everyone is in a position to be forcibly engaged in PvP combat at any time.
5) I like being able to talk to the people I'm playing with. All of them.
6) I think PvP is bad for the game. It limits possibilities for everything from class balance (shamans can't be buffed because it would make them more OP in PvP!) to travel technologies (we can't have HGWT or flying because it's bad for world PvP!!)
7) I don't think MMOs are the right platform for PvP competition. MMO PvP is inherently, permanently unfair, and the more depth there is to a game's PvE gameplay, the less balanced it can be for PvP. Strategy games (Starcraft II rocks!) and shooters are much better PvP platforms, and I wish people who wanted to PvP seriously would go play games that are actually suited for it.
Bossy Apr 3rd 2012 5:24PM
I played this game for almost 6 years mostly for the PvP.
It took me 8 months to max level because I just wanted to stop at level X9 to PvP.
But the last 2 months I don't like it anymore.
The 2 most boring PvP areas were the pre Wotlk launch because people would be killed in 2 bursting blows and healing was meaningless then.
The last PvP area I disliked is ... now.
Some people have a ridiculous high resilience rating which makes almost 50% of all damage reduction far too much for classes like Rogues and warriors.
For one decently played healer you need at least 3 dps with good CC. That makes for ridiculous long and boring fights these days around flags of AB etc...
I still need to have 2 achievements for BM on my paladin and a slew of gear and achievements on my rogue and hunter, but I really don't care anymore.
I can hardly log in atm. And since I don't care about downing DW or not, the only thing left is an iron man run.
Not entering the Beta is not heloping me much either.
Blizzard you better deliver on Diablo 3 or I'll turn even more to XBox games.
zEagleEye` Apr 3rd 2012 6:02PM
Hi Olivia,
I have a love / hate relationship with PvP in WoW.
I have not tried Arena yet - only the standard BGs (I include Tol Barad) even though Blizzard considers it a raid somehow).
Let's start with what I think is NOT common - I love TB.
I have a full purple set of PvP honor gear, all from TB.
Most other BGs I avoid, mostly because of the following:
A BG should be a team effort, just like a raid.
Unlike raids, in BGs there are no tools to get rid of people who are not playing as a part of the team.
I have not figured it out yet but for some reason in TB you find MOSTLY people who try to play as a team. Yes, there are some with the childish "noob" statements and complaints right from the start, but usually it's a lot better.
Even though a BG should be a team effort, in too many cases there is no effort of even TRYING to communicate with objectives or strategy.
I could understand no real communication in a flag BG, but when you need to capture bases it's crucial that people work as a team.
I doubt that I represent a big portion of the players but this is what I have ...
TL/DR - main problem is usually teammates, not enemies (similar to Heroics ...)
Dementron Apr 3rd 2012 7:14PM
NO.
ogkspaz Apr 3rd 2012 8:19PM
When I'm in a pretty evenly matched game I like pvp.
When I get roflfarmed when spawning in a graveyard, not so much.
Not being able to choose where I spawn when the above happens also ticks me off. In the end i just cancel the res timer, run to the other graveyard as a ghost and res there. WTB UT2k4 style spawnchoices.
detailbear Apr 3rd 2012 9:45PM
I don't like PvP. (If you like it or love it, that's fine.) After a couple of duels when I started, the only PvP I have done is Hellfire Fortifications, because I'd really like to get one piece of gear with a gem slot, to see what that's like. I usually do it in the middle of the night when no one is around. I forgot recently, and did it during the early evening. My little Lvl 68 Warrior was one-shotted by two Lvl ?? BElf mages (85's I assume). They were nice enough to let me finish the quest first,
The inclusion of School of Hard Knocks means I'm not even trying for the achievement, which means I don't really care about finishing any of the Holiday achievements, either. I don't raid (and have no interest in learning the required Fizzbin/Calvinball-like mechanics), so I wouldn't finish half of them anyway.
When I got into WoW to play with friends, PvP was not an attracting feature. They've since left the game, and I joined a co-worker's guild for most of my characters. They're quite happy to have me there, contributing gear and mats, working on the OCD achievements (like Crittergeddon) and occasionally helping someone form a solo raid group. I'm quite happy questing, exploring, doing professions and reading the lore.
Blizzard wants to get more people into PvP. Good for them. If they try to make it mandatory, though, they're likely to lose me. I hope they don't. The only times I ever feel like killing another player is when some idiot is covering a quest giver/banker/auctioneer, or some other idiot rides their mount onto the shooting gallery counter in Dark Moon Faire, in front of me.
Lurile Apr 3rd 2012 10:31PM
I'm a PvPer and I hate PvP because my team is always bad
andrey.pkk Apr 4th 2012 12:25AM
I've personally never tried Rated BGs as of PvP interest on my server is kinda low, but i do enjoy plying some 2 and 3 s arenas with close friends.
Mostly when you're PvPing alongside friends even the mood seems to be more forgiving (tough someone may get mad bout a pretty lame slip sometime).
RBGs are another field tough, -which is being mirrored on PvE with LFR now.
Random BGs usually have lot's of player stereotypes:
THE CAPS LOCK STRATEGIST - HE WILL SPEND ALL HIS BG TIME TYPING STRATEGIES IN CAPSLOCK -mostly wrong- AND WILL YELL AT EVERYONE BECAUSE THEY'RE IGNORING HIM (with the exception of the stfu player, which is detailed further).
The Lonely Rogue - He'll usually do everything in the BG... except helping the team with the BG goal, this type of player usually lurk in the middle, or in case of base pvp on the roads. Most tend to say "LOOK AT THE DAMAGE CHART NOOB" when someone tries to call him out.
The STFU PvPer - He'll get mad at anything typed over the chat, and usually waits for the first sentence to appear to spam his STFU macro. CAPS LOCK STRATEGISTS actually like the STFU pvpers, since they think someone is noticing them.
The Self Ego Booster - This type of player often yell people without a full honor gear set (if there is none, he'll start to yell at people not wearing a full conquest set, and so on). This type of player usually keep typing things to massage his ego, while diminishing others, when this kind of player gets called out, they use the same strategy of the lonely rogue -may apply to healing chart too-. Ego Boosters NEVER lose, it's only they've got a bad team (which they'll surely make known over the BG chat too).
The Pessimist - Pessimist players normally start calling a loss before the BG starts, they often don't buff you or help you because according to their perspective the bg is already lost. Your highest hopes against a pessimist is kicking him for being afk while dead on some hidden spot (because They "won't put effort on a losing BG anyways").
And last and most dangerous:
The Troll - This type of BG players seems to random queue only to grief people, while other stereotypes alone can't ruin a BG, it only takes a Troll addition to screw everything up. They encourage the CAPS LOCK STRATEGIST by replying to him, start flame wars against the Lonely Rogue and Ego Boosters, reply the STFUs with more STFUs -which opens the endless cicle of STFU spam on BG chat. Also know for starting mother jokes and inciting innocent players to join their flame wars.
Fill with more i didn't remembered to write down here if you feel like too :)
Solitha Apr 4th 2012 12:54AM
I like learning the progress of a PvE fight. Learning what's expected and when, how to handle situations. Practicing, rehearsing, making mistakes and trying again.
PvP to me is just pure chaos. I never know what to do. BGs are long and drawn out, sometimes on purpose (I sincerely despise WSG, losing badly and the other team prefers to farm honor rather than simply cap the last flag and let us move on).
Impatience and hate run high. There's no tolerance for players trying to learn.
World PvP to me means griefing. It means dead questgivers and flight masters. It means giving up playing, because someone's idea of fun is to keep you from having any. And if you dare to try to fight back, you end up corpse-camped.
Never liked PvP.
Alexut Apr 4th 2012 7:26AM
I used to hate PvP because I was so bad at it and because I was in a semihardcore PvE guild that raided 3 days/week.
I have since then been blessed with a cute kid, and the guild fell apart after many years of active raiding.
So now I only PvP like a maniac, still at 1550 rating in arena, but the PvP part is the only aspect of the game I enjoy nowadays :)
ZephyrSP Apr 4th 2012 10:04AM
WoW offers me many joys during my gameplay, but let me cite three situations that exemplify some of the best experiences you can have.
Downing Madness for the first time: It's a grueling 15 minute fight that stresses your dps, heals, tanks, and attention span. I am of the opinion that the fight is a little light on mechanics and and long on time - but it definitely wasn't on difficult the first time my guild cleared it. Our first kill we had several die in the last push on the last platform, and getting through by the skin of our teeth for our first kill was a joyous occasion we got to celebrate as a group.
Finding a rare spawn/drop and completing a grind: I group these together because hunting a rare item or mob is its own grind. Hunters know this joy when they find Loque or Skoll. I recently camped Jadefang and got my Tiny Shale Spider. There's nothing quite like the pure RUSH you get when you see THAT ITEM/MOB you've been hunting for.
Being a force in PvP: You will never feel as powerful in this game as you will feel when you are able to charge into a contested PvP objective and turn the tide of a fight. Holding your own in a tense scrap while using your entire arsenal of abilities is exhilarating in a way that nothing else in the game is.
One thing I would remind PvE folks who, like me, were put off by the steep climb up the Resil ladder - You can convert 1000 valor a week into conquest, and unlimited justice to honor (at 375:250). You don't have to start from 0 resil (and, in my opinion, definitely shouldn't) - the 377 crafted PvP gear is a great starting point, and with some Valor/Justice conversions you can easily be around 3000 resil before you ever step into the shark tank.
And I can't encourage you to do it enough. It's tons of fun, hugely challenging, very rewarding, and utterly addicting. And the gear looks awesome.
Nicholas_Bostaph Apr 4th 2012 12:46PM
In general, I like PvP. In the past I would even say I loved it. You get to think on your feet every second of the night rather than drumming out a preprogrammed rotation altered around a preplanned pattern. You get to pit your skill against other real people, admire rich creative strategic ideas they use to kill you, and feel pride in your own. But I can definitely see a lot to dislike, and due to the same issues that anger me I've seen three separate friends that I've tried to get into it walk away never to return:
First, the CC. I only ever saw one WoW commercial on TV. It was the Mountain Dew one where the shoppers turn into a NightElf and Orc and battle it out with flashing swords and fierce arcane blasts. That's exciting. That's fun! Taking turns turning each other into sheep or blowing on them to break their concentration isn't fun. Yeah, sure, CC has it's place...as a 2 minute CD. I'm okay with 10% of my heals being interrupted; but not 80% of them. Just lost my partner to this one after her 4th BG, and 15th time being stun-lock-killed by a rogue (insta-kill buttons are a different, but related problem) while I spent the entire time casting 7 healing spells, only 2 of which completed.
Next, you have the whiners in any non-rated BG. Regardless of what they're saying, there's no way to be both playing and typing at the same time, and they're typing 90% of the game. Thus they are not working to their full potential. And their purpose is to make the game less fun for all (as evidenced by the fact that they make vague references to other players sucking but offer no useful information to help those others improve).
And as others have mentioned, PvP is being turned into a single BG with minor variations. Do you like 20 minute BGs? Great! You've got WSG and AB. Why does AV also have to be 20 minutes? Why can't it remain 2 hours for those who like that? There's too many players whining that someone with different opinions also gets to be happy, and amazingly Blizzard listens!
Of course, the biggest problem is attitude. Yes, I'm reiterating, but it warrants it. You have players giving up long before it's hopeless (and annoyingly spamming for others to do the same). You have players complaining about others without giving any constructive criticism. You have children who repeatedly spam nonsense or coarse language because they just have to be the center of attention. And the worst are the quitters and casuals. I can't tell you how many times I've died because someone left the BG and my healbot bars moved around distracting me for 2 seconds. Or how many times I've watched a node get capped because someone went afk to use the bathroom (that can't be done between BGs?). And one team 'farming' the other for honor is up there too; it's very purpose is to take the fun out of the game for others to benefit oneself...why is that not a bannable offense? There's just a general lack of respect, sportsmanship, and human empathy across the entire board.
And that just covers BGs. Arenas and world PvP are a whole 'nother story...
PvP is great. It's a great concept. It'd be a lot of fun if done right. It's a lot of fun now if you're lucky and get a good group and can accept the design flaws. But it's not perfect, and until you make it more strategy based and less luck based (iow: seriously limit CCs and remove insta-kills) the masses are not going to embrace it.
As a final comment, a goal would help as well. Arena only appeals to a select few who like small teams and slugfests. We need leagues, brackets, ladders, etc setup with BG teams (that do not change or have a penalty for changing) to really give PvPers any sense of purpose. After enjoying a few BGs I start asking myself what's different now than 3 hours ago and I walk away a bit depressed. But maybe that's just me...
Myrwhydden Apr 4th 2012 3:19PM
I must say, PvP is the only thing that keeps me playing WoW, in my case, i found so boring to be running around with some ppl killing moobs with almost the same rotation..... PvP in the other hand needs a complete understanding of your character, and even all classes abilities, makes you think fast to cc, rout, and use your cooldowns at the perfect time in order to kill or being killed, it gives you a rush of adrenaline that (again in my personal opinion) PvE will never have.
Chmee Apr 4th 2012 6:09PM
When I started WoW, it was through following some friends from another MMO (Clan Lord, which while very old tech — late '90s or so — is still fun for me). When I finally got started in Teldrassil (on a computer that wasn't really powerful enough) they were already questing in Loch Modan. They offered to escort me from Menethil, and I met one of them there, but after the third time my computer froze because I got chomped by a crocolisk, we gave up.
That has nothing to do with PvP, but the thing is this was a PvP server. So when I finally did get out in the world, I got ganked by folks of higher level, of equal level, and of lower level. I sucked at PvP. Part of it was the machine, but I never learned how to do PvP right because of that. Now I have a decent box, but I still suck at PvP, and that early experience really turned me off to that aspect of the game. I've occasionally tried to get back into it, but I rarely game with those friends any more - they've gone on to other servers (some of them are in Europe), or other games. And while I've made new friends, they're on PvE servers, and few of them do PvP much.
Even raiding has become hard for me. I have nine characters on my main server (Perenolde US), only one of them is 85, and he's nowhere near ready for Dragon Soul. I don't really feel like I'm burnt out, but the fact is when I do log on I play around leveling newer alts, sometimes I try the dungeon finder, sometimes I try a random BG, but it's not really fun any more.
Anyway, back to PvP. I suck at it. My gear sucks for it. Every time I go into a BG, it feels like a free-for-all. World PvP? I'm gonna lose. I hate it. No doubt some will say I just need to lrn2play, but if it were that easy, I'd have done it already. No. I guess I'll just stick to leveling characters. That part's still mostly fun. :-(