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4-03-2012 @ 4:06PM
something out of nothing, absolutely nothing...
4-03-2012 @ 4:10PM
Spoken like someone who routinely polishes his sword to pics like the one above.
4-03-2012 @ 4:13PM
OP knows whats up.
4-03-2012 @ 4:18PM
Or spoken like someone who isn't female, doesn't play female characters (therefore assumed to be female), and is probably someone who who makes the comments toward females/female players.
4-03-2012 @ 4:47PM
Now, I'm not going to go and say people are wrong for being offended by the dialogue difference, I'm just going to say that I don't really get it. Maybe it's just that I'm viewing the comment more as a compliment coming from a self-confident guy, or even a fatherly/grandfatherly figure. (My own grandfather has complimented me saying I'm beautiful and how I'm probably beating the guys off with a stick, so I'm already predisposed to viewing it as a simple friendly compliment.) I mean, I can see how Ji Firepaw's comment might be construed as creepy, it's just that that interpretation is the last one to come to mind for me...And as for the whole armor inequality argument, I just shrug my shoulders at that. My toons are normally wearing tabards anyway, so I rarely noticed before, and now with Transmogrification if you don't like the plate bikini look you can change it to whatever you like. The only complaint I would have is that I'd like some more sexy things for my male toons. ;) (I still remember this pair of BoE leather chaps my guild leader gave to me for my rogue when he was in the lvl 50-60 range... Those were HILARIOUS, and I wish I still had them so I could get them again for transmog...)
4-03-2012 @ 4:50PM
wrong cowboy. it is something. it's awkward. no player should feel awkward, especially in wow(maybe 2nd life) it doesn't matter if what sex person is playin what sex toon. for a business model it's def worth reconsidering. MOAR MALE BRAS/BIKINIS!
4-03-2012 @ 4:55PM
@ChettiOr someone who thinks you're making something out of nothing. On the other hand, you're assuming that anyone who disagrees with you MUST be male. Worse, you're implying that a man's opinion is invalid.
4-03-2012 @ 5:08PM
@rayden54It's a pretty safe bet to say that yawnatyou is a male. The comment reeks of male privilege. (So does yours, by the by.)
4-03-2012 @ 5:13PM
I'm sorry, this is out of subject, but.... isn't that a quote from a metallica song? I could swear it is... can't remember which one.
4-03-2012 @ 5:14PM
"(My own grandfather has"- Gramps... As in, last century...I agree with the article. All those plate bikinis - they need to be bikinis when worn by male toons too.And creepy NPC guy, needs to be creepy across the board.This is not just a gender issue though. The same thing pops up when it comes to race.The days when these games could be made for white-males are long gone. They were never really here to begin with. Video games have always been international, the industry was held up by sales into Asia long before it became viable in North America and/or Europe. And women have been there all along.And walk into the studios that make this stuff, and its largely gender mixed, and full of people who are Asian, South Asian, and Caucasian...So its just really baffling...
4-03-2012 @ 5:18PM
Well I certainly agree with you about making something out of nothing. I really don't see how this deserves it's own freaking article on here either. He's calling females gorgeous and males tough guys, big woop! He's a warlord who is used to getting his way and who is used to saying what ever he is thinking. He's not using some offensive language he's saying gorgeous. Is being called attractive in PC and good natured terms a bad thing?I think people just need to grow thicker skins.
4-03-2012 @ 5:22PM
I disgree completely with this article not because of what it says, but how it says it. Firstly, as others here have commented, I roll all female toons (honestly never thought about why...just something I've done since before MMOs existed...RPed females in MUDs) and in the decades I've been gaming I've had maybe 3 or 4 sexist comments come my way. Everyone on the "ZOMG SEXISM EVERYWHERE" bandwagon then rushes in to say that anecdotal evidence means nothing. Experiences differ. True enough. But then why is the entire article based on anecdotal evidence acceptable. You can't just blithely dismiss someone else's anecdotal evidence if that is all you have to go on yourself. Show me a reputable survey with a large enough sample size to be statistically significant saying that sexist is prelevant in the game and I'll change my tune.Secondly, you act like there's no equivalent "creepy" quest/NPC text/dialogue that is directed at male players. Have you not interacted with some of the Goblin female NPCs? Did you never talk to that Orc female that was going to take you whether you wanted her to or not? Lastly, are you trying to tell me that women can't be sexist? Completely anecdotal evidence I know (as I addressed earlier), but I've actually experienced more female PC sexism in game than male. About a dozen variations of being told men always think with the wrong head, jokes about being "Bobbitted" back in the day (seriously...how did that ever become something socially acceptable...how would a woman react to hearing a joke where the punchline was getting her genitals cut off), and receiving a lecture from a raid full of women in a supposedly "family friendly" guild run that men can never be as good parents is women (this one hurt the most considering I was a single parent raising my daughter alone at the time).
4-03-2012 @ 5:36PM
""(My own grandfather has"- Gramps... As in, last century..." - JyotaiI may not have been offended by Ji Firepaw's text, but your comment DID offend me. The only way I can seem to interpret your comment is "Since this was said by your grandfather, it must be based on outdated ideas," which to me is worse off than what this article is concerned with as you're automatically dismissing ideas from older generations simply because they ARE an older generation whereas this article is examining interpretations.
4-03-2012 @ 5:38PM
Oh my gosh, the NPC assumes I want a sword instead of a mace!What a WEAPONIST!
4-03-2012 @ 6:06PM
I realize this is a touchy topic for some, and being a gay guy, I'm not stranger to how damaging discrimination on sexuality can be....that being said, I really don't think this is that big of a deal in WoW (except for the "get back in the kitchen" trade trolls, but they obviously don't count). I've played both female characters and male characters all throughout my time in online fantasy games, and except for the rare creeper trying to flirt with me (who even my straight guy friends will think is creepy when I tell them about it), I really am not treated that differently because I play female toons. I've gotten raged at, complimented, cheered at and ripped apart in BGs just as much on my female toons as I have on my male toons. I've also been in guilds with female officers leading raids (hell, one of them was the GM), and aside from the occasional gender joke that nobody took seriously, we never had any problems with sexism. Again, there have been a few raids where a girl talks on vent and everybody oohs and ahhs...but I've been in just as many where a girl is talking on vent and nobody seems to care. I won't deny that sexism exists....but I don't think it's as much of a problem as people make it out to be. That's just my anecdotal/personal experience, of course; YMMV.But I do agree that they need to start putting chain mail bikinis on males ASAP.
4-03-2012 @ 6:14PM
I am honestly offended by this article.As a male who plays female characters as well, I feel demeaned by the insinuation that because I find female characters to be more aesthetically pleasing (from behind) than males, I am some kind of teenaged troll.I agree that there is an issue with not enough sexy under-clothed male armor sets, but I don't believe this is because "Blizzard is OK with gender inequality," as the writer asserts, but that this is more an issue that the artists don't find it easy to make something that is sexy, male, and that they are proud to produce. I'm sure many people will agree that, regardless of sexual orientation, there is clothing that is sexy on women and creepy on men (but less that is sexy on men and creepy on women). What about the Corsair's Overshirt? Yes, it's revealing on women, but it's revealing (and sexy) on men as well! And the Tuxedo Jacket? The problem is not that Blizzard is not including sexy male clothing, the problem is that society does not find skimpily dressed males attractive. Don't leave this at some poor artist's door, or malign the corporation.On that note, the fact that Ji Firepaw has a personality does not mean that Blizzard as a corporation, or even the writer who gave him that dialogue, is misogynistic. I think his cheeky, flirtatious attitude makes him seem easy-going and suave, but a bit hot-headed. I do not find his comment creepy. True, he's not trying desperately to conform to the (new) societal norm of sterility and asexuality, but that doesn't mean Blizzard (or the writer) is being unfair or misogynistic. That means he's a character. And honestly he's an archetype that I find attractive.Finally, I am disappointed that one of the writers for this site would write such a divisive, inflammatory article without delicately handling it in a way to keep everyone's (read:my) feelings from getting hurt (like the Drama Mamas do in cases of LGBTQ articles, for example). I honestly feel as though this article was written for the sole purpose of trying to make me (and others like me) feel bad about ourselves for being males on WoW, and the fact that it was written by a man does not make me feel better about it. (On a side note, why does everyone assume that "gender inequality = misogyny" and "gender equality = fairness"? If any character hits on a male or female character, it's always objectifying women? Why does the vocal minority hate sexuality like this?)Please be more careful in the future about what you write and how it might make people feel. Just because you see something as hurtful does not mean everyone else will and vice-versa.
4-03-2012 @ 6:45PM
Just wanted to second Dragonlordged comment on what is sexy on men vs what is sexy on women. I'm a guy who's spent a fair amount of time on dating sites (ZOMG TROLL BAIT) and Dragon is 110% correct. Put an attractive woman in a bikini instead of a suit and her views/messages skyrocket. With men it's the exact opposite. I'm a guy who (I tried to think of a way not to come off arrogant saying this, but just couldn't) has worked out several hours a week for years and it definitely shows, but got a far better response (as in from messages trickling in at a rate of a few a week to a dozen per day on a slow day) when I took down my "showing off shirtless" pics and went with a form fitting sweater/shirt and jeans/pants combos. The majority of women out there just don't want to see the guys half naked.TLDR Skimpy clothes on women, but not on men isn't sexist....it's giving what the majority of both sexes want. (someone link the Sienfield show episode dealing with sexy good vs sexy bad)
4-03-2012 @ 6:49PM
*sigh* There is absolutely no evidence supporting this argument, except for "They called me gorgeous, GORGEOUS!!!" and "In Age of Conan the ladies wear chainmail bikinis" (please show me one piece of armor substantially important to gear advancement that is like that - AKA, don't link a green piece of gear that you got from the outskirts of Stanglethorn from the "No-Pants Troll Tribe", I know those pieces exist, but Blizzard never said YOU MUST WEAR THEM). If this was an English essay you wrote Josh, the professor would fail you because the supporting evidence is so extraordinarily pathetic toward proving your thesis. My point is, women and Michael Moore just like to bitch about gender inequality. One day I would like to have men bitch and complain for just a single day about our side of gender inequality. "Yeah, so this dumb blonde woman took my job so they could promote 'diversity'". Or, "My wife is an alcoholic but she took the kids because the court systems are biased toward that." Women's complaints are "SHE CALLED ME GORGEOUS" give me a flipping break.
4-03-2012 @ 7:05PM
Male player with plenty of female toons, never had any different treatment in any of the guilds or groups I was in. I never talk on vent either (lack a microphone and the interest to get one) and no one cared.In the one guild I was in, there were two over the top girls that would never shut up about sex and practically demanded attention, though I ignored them.In Guild Wars 1, I had some creepy interaction with my female characters, but nothing worthwhile.And saying "I find the female toons more aesthetically appealing" doesn't just mean "I want a chicks ass to stare at". Especially in WoW, some races have male models that are just hideous. In TOR, I have only played female toons due mostly to the voice acting."(How this is ever an argument that makes sense to people, I don't know.)" is almost offensive in it's derisive presentation. It makes sense to people because toon sex is an arbitrary opinion and meaningless. There is no "right way" that "makes sense", it's opinion.
4-03-2012 @ 7:37PM
@Aitrean,To your first point: easy enough. The current tier set for paladins is a full chest plate for male toons and a bikini on females. That "current advancement" enough for ya?Your second point, about sexism directed at men, is a red herring. Of course sexism directed towards men exists, but you are being absurd if you think that it is anything like sexism that has been, and still is in many parts of the world, directed at one. In our own culture, women have been permitted to vote for less than a century, and we are considerably more equitable than many parts of the world. Women still average significantly lower pay for the same jobs as men. They still represent a fraction of leadership positions ranging from corporations through politics. Women still control far less of the world's wealth than men do. They can't serve in some capacities in the military, they are restricted entirely from key roles in many religions, and they are sexually assaulted at far, far higher rates than men. Those are facts. I'm all for total equality, but trying to pretend that because there is sexism against men in divorce courts (and I agree, there is) men are somehow as persecuted as women in today's world is patently absurd.
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