Sep 22nd 2006 5:45PM And if the boss goes down faster its better. Espousing this will only lead to dissappointment on Paladin's part if they realoly believe they will be allowed to DPS in raid guilds. I even bet this guy is primarily a healer except when its a boss on farm status where the guild throws him a bone and lets him DPS. Call me single minded and inflexible all you want, there is a reason guilds specialize the way they do.
Do what you like, back in the days fury warriors werer gimp, plenty still played them despite the vast majority recognizing just how much more powerful Arms warriors were. It wasn;t until arms was nerfed and fury buffed that many switched to fury because it was astually a viable dps and pvp option. Ret paladins are in the same boat, unless they buff the tree, only the stubborn will use the build. the only reason these builds were always in end game guilds before was because you ahd to have a paladin with kings. Now most guilds require holy specs when learning new content, some require it all the time.
It's always a waste when you could have done it better another way. You just don't notice the waste if it is a boss already on farm status.
Sep 22nd 2006 4:14PM You can play however you feel like, but if Paladins were viable dps options, they would be doing DPS in raids. Yet every endgame guild I know of refuses to let Paladins DPS in raids. Why? Because its not effective. If this guild allows him to, more power to him. But a DPS paladin is a slot lost to another class that can do a lot more DPS or the loss of a lot of healing/cleansing.
This does nothing to prove paladins can dps. If you are in awe of big numbers, carefully edited mind you so all you see are the crits (about 80% of the numbers you see are crits), then more power to you. If you have a guild willing to waste a raid slot on you, more power to you.
I have raided for about 15 months now, all the way from MC to Naxx. I have seen every iteration of Paladin and watched them and their dps in raids weeded out. It is just not efficient. Is it good damage for a Paladin, yeah it is. Does it come close to what even an Arms warrior should be doing, no. Not to mention a 2H or DW fury warrior with equivalent gear will blow that away.
You can exalt this video all you want on how paladins should be able to dps in raids, but those who have raided a long time know better, and you are only hurting future Paladin's ability to get into raiding guilds if they believe they will be allowed to DPS.
I have PvP'd with a Paladin with full avenger's and hand of rag. It was also a waste of a group pvp slot. He couldn't heal anyone and kill very few compared to what a rogue or warrior could have done in the same gear. Retribution will remain the "solo" dueling/PvP build, but for both raiding and group PvP, a healing Holy paladin will always be better.
Sep 22nd 2006 1:40PM Nice he says it, but doesn't show it. Am I skeptical, yes? Do their Fury warriors suck to be beaten by a paladin, Yes. Do their mages suck, to be be beaten by a paladin. Yes. I have seen a loladin try to keep up in damage meters with full dps gear and hand fo rag back when we were doing BWL. I wasted him despite having so-so weapons and wearing some blues. And so did everyone else, he didn't evenn hit the top 10 in MC.
I have a hard time being impressed considerng for one its noth, probably one the easier fights in Naxx. Definitely easier Ouro, C'thun, or even Twin Emps.
Guilds that let Paladins DPS do it as a joke or for fun on something that is already on farm status. For raid specialization, its a waste. I don't care where he finished in his raid, he would not have even been in top 10 doing damage like that in ours. He specifically edited it to only show the crits. Then he tells you and doesn't show you that he was 5th.
Sep 22nd 2006 11:16AM Considering I have seen white crits well over 1000 on noth with my one hander when I have been fully buffed out like that, I am not impressed. First of all, the vdeo is clipped to only show you the big crits. It is still only auto attack and he didn't show you where he ended up on the damage meter. DPS isn't about big crits, its a bout a steady stream of damage. I don't even have his level of gear yet other than my one handers, and I guaruntee I would out-dps by more than double, if not triple on my fury warrior.
Wasted raid spot imo.
Sep 20th 2006 6:35PM I hotkey almost everything. I am very particular about my keyboard setup, using ESDF as my movement keys and mapping everything else around those. Even with access to extra buttons though by moving the movement key one to the right, I still do not have enough buttons and have to click somethings.
Sep 20th 2006 5:45PM I used to not have any sympathy for Paladins, because most were cocky about there uberness over warriors when the game first came out. Lately, I sort of feel for them. There are really only two paths for any sort of dmg capability for them, and one is based on chance, and the other in the holy tree relies on long cooldowns and is a heavy drain on mana.
Paladins right now are the best PvP healers. For a priest to get close to the same survivability, he has to sacrifice gear with +healing and int for armor. I have seen some of these "armor" priests in action, and they are incrediably difficult to kill, but they are on horde side and don't have to worry about purges and since horde do not ahve paladins, they are a good substitute for them.
Yet everything about the Paladin in PvP centers around that single thing, the bubble. More than armor, that bubble is what makes the paladin such a powerful PvP healer. Any mage/warlock combo with good raid gear can rip apart a paladins health just as fast as any priests or druids would dissappear. It is only that bubble that saves them and allows them to continue healing. Since the bubble isn't going anywhere, there ain't much going to happen for a paladins dmg.
Maybe they should make SoC a sort of instant attack on a long cooldown like stormstrike. That may help some in giving them controllable damge. What is the PPM for SoC? 2 PPM? If its that, put it on a 30 second cooldown. Gives the paladin the same dps, but in a controllable manner. It would also make them much more dangerous in PvP as even a healing paladin usually has a decent amount of +dmg on his gear and that applies to SoC procs. Especially now that the bubble will be dispellable, they need something to compensate.
Sep 20th 2006 5:07PM Kyle JoH, it is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than open it and remove all doubt. Despite being wrong and showing your ignorance of how the game works, it has nothing to do with the topic.
The too most sought after classes are those in the least supply. Healers and tanks. There are plenty of warriors, but few tanks it seems. Its odd considering how any warrior can pretty much be an exceptional tank if he throws on a shield and uses his base class abilities like tuant, sunder armor, mocking blow, shield block/revenge combo, etc, etc.
Healers though are defintely given a thankless job. Good ones do get compliments, but when being good is expected as the norm, because anything less can cause a wipe, healers tend to get a lot of grief. They really are the offensive linemen of WoW. Without them, nothing happens. Without good ones, you get barely anywhere. Yet most of the glory goes to other classes.
However, newer damage meters do have some interesting means for providing healers with better way of measuring their effectivness. Many new DMs have stats for overhealing and immediately discount overhealing from overall healing. Healers can quickly judge their efficiency how how well they stacked up with the rest of the raid in this manner.
Sep 15th 2006 3:51PM That is really uncalled for Mini. You do not know any more about them than they know about us.
Sep 15th 2006 2:46PM AEC, then why have the question asked at all. If asking the question to lure out people to do nothing but make personal attacks on them, then the question should never have been asked in the first place.
Sep 15th 2006 2:44PM So I am a carebear, so sue me. And I do farm. I could easily make money I suppose selling off all that Gromsblood for flask of titans that the guild needs, selling off that firebloom for mage dmg potions the guild needs, selling off that plaguebloom the guild needs, hell, I could sell that black lotus I picked up for quite a bit too, but that is also a mat the guild needs. I do sell off herb the guild is in excess of, but those don't seem to sell well. I could just ignore the responsibility to my guild and sell those items it needs off for gold. Or better yet, I could just beg my guild for gold to cover my repairs. Honestly my guild would do it. However, I don't like begging and being so dependant. I started buying gold because I got tired of begging the guild for money for repairs.
At the time, all I did was raid. I only logged in as a raid started and stop playing as soon as the raid was over. I never had the problem before I started getting epic gear. You point out repairs are the penalty for death, yet when I was in blue gear and that was the best gear most had in the game, repair bills weren't a problem. I could run 5 and 10 man instances and have to repair completely broken gear and it was easily affordable.
Let's not forget an hour of twilight text farming also requires a 15 minutes of travel one way, so it become an hour and a half of farming. Yes I could make some money doing 5 man instances, but then you got travel on top of doing something I really don't want to be doing.
I never said I was good at managing money. Obviously I am not. I am also horrible at manipulating the AH, but when it comes to something like the AH, there are always winners and losers. I'll never be a stock broker and would never buy my own stocks for this reason. Yet this is supposed to be a game that is about adventuring. Why the heck does being a poor money manager mean you can't even be self sufficient.
PvE = Carebear anyways, yet that is where the extreme repair costs come from. PvP is already carebear by your definition anyways.
Obvioulsy we disagree. I have no problem with your opinion. I have a problem when you and others start personal attacks, throw out black and white opinions, even attack mothers for christ's sake for only answering a question that was asked of them and they answered honestly. You turned this into your personal soapbox. Many of the people who answered honestly and may have had stuff to contribute later now will probably never post again.